Slick Wear Life

Bshields22 · 02-22-2016, 05:24 PM

Hey guys,

Looking into getting a set (4) of slicks for track day. How many "normal" track days do you get out of these tires?

Maybe a better way of putting it is how many track miles do they go for?

Any good recommendations?

I'm super new at looking into slicks.

Brendan · 02-22-2016, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bshields22

Hey guys,

Looking into getting a set (4) of slicks for track day. How many "normal" track days do you get out of these tires?

Maybe a better way of putting it is how many track miles do they go for?

Any good recommendations?

I'm super new at looking into slicks.

Depends on how you drive, how your car is set-up, track conditions and temperature, and the type of pavement you drive on.

The question is, what is the reason why you think you need slicks? You would be surprised at how competent the current batch of high performance summers like the the Bridgestone re-71 and Hankook rs3 can be on track.

If you are just doing this as a hobby, or if you are new to track driving, I would suggest starting there and then seeing what guys at your local venues with similar cars are using as far as r-compounds go.

Cheers.

BGTV8 · 02-22-2016, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan

Depends on how you drive, how your car is set-up, track conditions and temperature, and the type of pavement you drive on.

The question is, what is the reason why you think you need slicks? You would be surprised at how competent the current batch of high performance summers like the the Bridgestone re-71 and Hankook rs3 can be on track.

If you are just doing this as a hobby, or if you are new to track driving, I would suggest starting there and then seeing what guys at your local venues with similar cars are using as far as r-compounds go.

Cheers.

Agreed, the difference between and RS and something like the Yokohama A050 is only around 2 seconds / lap on a 1m50s lap of Philip island GP circuit.

You need a separate set of rims to carry the R-Specs (these are not "slicks" but a DoT style tyre with competition construction and compound).

In the USA, you will have a wider choice of R-Spec than we do down-under .. do your research and talk to Autocross'ers and track day junkies ... there are a few on this forum

A "slick" is smooth and has no tread ..........

dkmura · 02-23-2016, 12:43 AM

If these are true racing slicks and not DOT-R tires, I'd suggest you not use them for a track day tire. Slicks need a specific setup, with more negative camber than you can get in a 370Z to get the slicks to perform properly. Slicks have a narrow performance band and will degrade quickly if not in it. Bolt them up at your own risk!

Bshields22 · 02-23-2016, 01:32 PM

Well i guess my wording shows how new I am to this type of set up. I guess by slick i mean r-compound..? Not drag slicks or anything just the soft sticky racing tires you bring to the track.

I currently have Potenza S-04 Pole Positions which are very nice around the track being summer tires. Just seeing if the value in r-compound outweights the real need for them, plus the need to buy separate rims and such. Do you need to adjust camber for r compound tires too?

gomer_110 · 02-23-2016, 01:46 PM

Yes. R-comps love camber.

Quote:

For optimum performance the Hoosier P-Metric radial tires require about 3 degrees of negative camber. There will be a trade off in maximum performance to maximize
wear. Generally, 1/2 degrees less than optimum will result in the best compromise for wear and speed. Less than 2.5 degrees negative can result in excessive wear
on the outer shoulder junction. Higher pressures are needed when the vehicle has limited negative camber. -Hoosier guidelines for A7/R7 tires

BGTV8 · 02-23-2016, 02:44 PM

Running R-spec tyres means you need a track-day suspension setup that needs to be removed for dd duties as the more aggressive camber, caster and toe settings will wear road dd tyres substantially more quickly than less aggressive (normal) settings.

My suggestion if you are a newbie is start with quality summer spec tyres and use OEM settings until your lap times stop improving.

The OEM front suspension has no adjustment for camber so when you start evolving the handling, you do need to invest in adjustable FUCA. Then you can bolt on some more camber and move towards toe-out and eventually dial in more camber which will improve overall grip and give you the ability to generate turn so you can get the car to rotate on corner entry.

This needs to be balanced with added rear grip which is a little less toe-in (but not toe out) and more camber.

The thing to remember is that you need balance most of all - you do not want the front to turn without commensurate rear grip (lest you provoke terminal oversteer - car hits the wall rear first), nor so you want rear grip to overcome the fronts ability to turn, lest you provoke understeer (front of the car hits the wall first).

So, my suggestions are:
1. Focus on your own abilities first and when you can drive the car as hard as possible and lap-times are not improving, then chase grip with improved tyres and suspension
2. You MUST do the basics before heading to the track (oil cooler, pad upgrade, brake fluid upgrade). There is an excellent track day prep post here - use google to search for "the370z.com+track+day+basics" and see where that gets you.
3. HPDE is good, especially if you can get a good instructor alongside you.

If you were down-under, I'd say "join a car club" because we have a heap of marque-specific clubs down here who are sanctioning-body affiliated and they universally offer their members track day opportunities, coaching and practical support. I don;t have any west coast USA experience but I am sure there will be members on the forum that can point you in the direction of a commercial HPDE operator who can provide some coaching as a minimum - I presume there will be local SCCA affiliated clubs - I just know of them.

Above all, do not out-drive your budget ... because this can become a serious addiction - I know because I have been at it for 45 years, and the fact that I am still married - to the same woman - is testament to her forebearance and tolerance ....

In the meantime, have fun ...............

Bshields22 · 02-23-2016, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTV8

Running R-spec tyres means you need a track-day suspension setup that needs to be removed for dd duties as the more aggressive camber, caster and toe settings will wear road dd tyres substantially more quickly than less aggressive (normal) settings.

My suggestion if you are a newbie is start with quality summer spec tyres and use OEM settings until your lap times stop improving.

The OEM front suspension has no adjustment for camber so when you start evolving the handling, you do need to invest in adjustable FUCA. Then you can bolt on some more camber and move towards toe-out and eventually dial in more camber which will improve overall grip and give you the ability to generate turn so you can get the car to rotate on corner entry.

This needs to be balanced with added rear grip which is a little less toe-in (but not toe out) and more camber.

The thing to remember is that you need balance most of all - you do not want the front to turn without commensurate rear grip (lest you provoke terminal oversteer - car hits the wall rear first), nor so you want rear grip to overcome the fronts ability to turn, lest you provoke understeer (front of the car hits the wall first).

So, my suggestions are:
1. Focus on your own abilities first and when you can drive the car as hard as possible and lap-times are not improving, then chase grip with improved tyres and suspension
2. You MUST do the basics before heading to the track (oil cooler, pad upgrade, brake fluid upgrade). There is an excellent track day prep post here - use google to search for "the370z.com+track+day+basics" and see where that gets you.
3. HPDE is good, especially if you can get a good instructor alongside you.

If you were down-under, I'd say "join a car club" because we have a heap of marque-specific clubs down here who are sanctioning-body affiliated and they universally offer their members track day opportunities, coaching and practical support. I don;t have any west coast USA experience but I am sure there will be members on the forum that can point you in the direction of a commercial HPDE operator who can provide some coaching as a minimum - I presume there will be local SCCA affiliated clubs - I just know of them.

Above all, do not out-drive your budget ... because this can become a serious addiction - I know because I have been at it for 45 years, and the fact that I am still married - to the same woman - is testament to her forebearance and tolerance ....

In the meantime, have fun ...............

Wow! Wonderful information. I will be sure to use this for future reference if or when i get closer to going in that direction. It sounds like I should stick to summer tires for a bit longer.

I too am married and feel you on the forebearance and tolerance of this sport/hobby lol. It's hard having 2 women in your life (Z being the other women just in case if that got lost in translation lol)

dkmura · 02-23-2016, 06:54 PM

Great advice and I'll only add to it incrementally. R-compound tires usually like at least 3 degrees on negative camber, which will not be obtainable with OEM suspension. The other thing to realize is most R-compound tires can get used up inside of 200 miles. Sure, there'll be rubber left, but heat cycling will take the best performance out of the tire. Slicks are similar, but even more RADICAL in cost and performance. Think of these as specialized performance products, not just tires. I will add that R-compound tires today are stickier and faster than pure racing slicks of yesteryear, but they take an experienced pilot to get the best from them. I think your decision to stick with max performance summer tires makes sense for the time being. Save some of the money and use them for adjustable swaybars and upper suspension arms while you get more experience on the track.

Rusty · 02-23-2016, 06:54 PM

Nice reply BGTV8.

When you start to do trackdays. The car becomes a demanding expensive mistress.

02-22-2016, 05:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
Bshields22 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 422 Drives: 2012 Black 370Z-R Rep Power: 698	Slick Wear Life Hey guys, Looking into getting a set (4) of slicks for track day. How many "normal" track days do you get out of these tires? Maybe a better way of putting it is how many track miles do they go for? Any good recommendations? I'm super new at looking into slicks. __________________ 308 rwhp \| 252 rwtq \| Fast Intentions CBE 18" Res \| Stillen Gen 3 CAI \| EcuTek Tune \| Stoptech Slotted Rotors and Sport Pads \| KW V3 Coilovers \| SPL Upper Control Arms & Lower Rear Arms \| Seibon CF TS Hood \| Vossen CVT \| SPC Toe bolts

02-23-2016, 12:43 AM	#4 (permalink)
dkmura Base Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Aurora, CO Posts: 108 Drives: SCCA T1/3 and GT3 Z Rep Power: 16	If these are true racing slicks and not DOT-R tires, I'd suggest you not use them for a track day tire. Slicks need a specific setup, with more negative camber than you can get in a 370Z to get the slicks to perform properly. Slicks have a narrow performance band and will degrade quickly if not in it. Bolt them up at your own risk! gomer_110 likes this.

02-23-2016, 01:32 PM	#5 (permalink)
Bshields22 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 422 Drives: 2012 Black 370Z-R Rep Power: 698	Well i guess my wording shows how new I am to this type of set up. I guess by slick i mean r-compound..? Not drag slicks or anything just the soft sticky racing tires you bring to the track. I currently have Potenza S-04 Pole Positions which are very nice around the track being summer tires. Just seeing if the value in r-compound outweights the real need for them, plus the need to buy separate rims and such. Do you need to adjust camber for r compound tires too? __________________ 308 rwhp \| 252 rwtq \| Fast Intentions CBE 18" Res \| Stillen Gen 3 CAI \| EcuTek Tune \| Stoptech Slotted Rotors and Sport Pads \| KW V3 Coilovers \| SPL Upper Control Arms & Lower Rear Arms \| Seibon CF TS Hood \| Vossen CVT \| SPC Toe bolts

02-23-2016, 02:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
BGTV8 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: 03350 Australia Posts: 1,514 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z M6 Rep Power: 39973	Running R-spec tyres means you need a track-day suspension setup that needs to be removed for dd duties as the more aggressive camber, caster and toe settings will wear road dd tyres substantially more quickly than less aggressive (normal) settings. My suggestion if you are a newbie is start with quality summer spec tyres and use OEM settings until your lap times stop improving. The OEM front suspension has no adjustment for camber so when you start evolving the handling, you do need to invest in adjustable FUCA. Then you can bolt on some more camber and move towards toe-out and eventually dial in more camber which will improve overall grip and give you the ability to generate turn so you can get the car to rotate on corner entry. This needs to be balanced with added rear grip which is a little less toe-in (but not toe out) and more camber. The thing to remember is that you need balance most of all - you do not want the front to turn without commensurate rear grip (lest you provoke terminal oversteer - car hits the wall rear first), nor so you want rear grip to overcome the fronts ability to turn, lest you provoke understeer (front of the car hits the wall first). So, my suggestions are: 1. Focus on your own abilities first and when you can drive the car as hard as possible and lap-times are not improving, then chase grip with improved tyres and suspension 2. You MUST do the basics before heading to the track (oil cooler, pad upgrade, brake fluid upgrade). There is an excellent track day prep post here - use google to search for "the370z.com+track+day+basics" and see where that gets you. 3. HPDE is good, especially if you can get a good instructor alongside you. If you were down-under, I'd say "join a car club" because we have a heap of marque-specific clubs down here who are sanctioning-body affiliated and they universally offer their members track day opportunities, coaching and practical support. I don;t have any west coast USA experience but I am sure there will be members on the forum that can point you in the direction of a commercial HPDE operator who can provide some coaching as a minimum - I presume there will be local SCCA affiliated clubs - I just know of them. Above all, do not out-drive your budget ... because this can become a serious addiction - I know because I have been at it for 45 years, and the fact that I am still married - to the same woman - is testament to her forebearance and tolerance .... In the meantime, have fun ............... Rusty, Hotrodz and Bshields22 like this. Last edited by BGTV8; 02-23-2016 at 02:51 PM.

02-23-2016, 06:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,180 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684437	Nice reply BGTV8. When you start to do trackdays. The car becomes a demanding expensive mistress. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

02-23-2016, 06:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
dkmura Base Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Aurora, CO Posts: 108 Drives: SCCA T1/3 and GT3 Z Rep Power: 16	Great advice and I'll only add to it incrementally. R-compound tires usually like at least 3 degrees on negative camber, which will not be obtainable with OEM suspension. The other thing to realize is most R-compound tires can get used up inside of 200 miles. Sure, there'll be rubber left, but heat cycling will take the best performance out of the tire. Slicks are similar, but even more RADICAL in cost and performance. Think of these as specialized performance products, not just tires. I will add that R-compound tires today are stickier and faster than pure racing slicks of yesteryear, but they take an experienced pilot to get the best from them. I think your decision to stick with max performance summer tires makes sense for the time being. Save some of the money and use them for adjustable swaybars and upper suspension arms while you get more experience on the track.

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