Nissan 370Z Forum  

Real Talk about Base Brakes

Ok I have a base model because when I purchased the car I didn't foresee getting into tracking. 5 years later, that seems to be changing. I've done some autox

Go Back   Nissan 370Z Forum > Nissan 370Z Tech Area > Track / Autocross / Drifting / Dragstrip


Like Tree12Likes
  • 3 Post By YYZ
  • 1 Post By MaysEffect
  • 1 Post By cv129
  • 1 Post By 2011 Nismo#91
  • 3 Post By JARblue
  • 2 Post By Jayhovah
  • 1 Post By MaysEffect

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-18-2018, 08:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 245
Drives: 2012 370z Base Coupe
Rep Power: 11
HapaZ will become famous soon enoughHapaZ will become famous soon enough
Default Real Talk about Base Brakes

Ok I have a base model because when I purchased the car I didn't foresee getting into tracking. 5 years later, that seems to be changing. I've done some autox events and now I think I'm ready to step up to my first actual track day at Thunderhill in a few months. I know people are going to say that if I am serious about tracking the car I should do a sport brake upgrade. I will be budgeting for an akebono upgrade over the next year but I wanted to see if anyone has tracked with the base brakes. Maybe with a pad/fluid upgrade? I see that z1 sells carbotech xp8's/10's for base brakes and I'm considering those before the akebono's. Any input on whether I should skip the track until I've done the full upgrade or if I can get by with pads/fluids in the meantime so I don't have to sit out until next year. Thanks!
HapaZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 09:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
Track Member
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Orange County, CA
Posts: 885
Drives: 2011 370z Red 6MT
Rep Power: 10656
Eagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HapaZ View Post
Ok I have a base model because when I purchased the car I didn't foresee getting into tracking. 5 years later, that seems to be changing. I've done some autox events and now I think I'm ready to step up to my first actual track day at Thunderhill in a few months. I know people are going to say that if I am serious about tracking the car I should do a sport brake upgrade. I will be budgeting for an akebono upgrade over the next year but I wanted to see if anyone has tracked with the base brakes. Maybe with a pad/fluid upgrade? I see that z1 sells carbotech xp8's/10's for base brakes and I'm considering those before the akebono's. Any input on whether I should skip the track until I've done the full upgrade or if I can get by with pads/fluids in the meantime so I don't have to sit out until next year. Thanks!
I never ran on the base brakes personally but have feedback from one or two guys who have. They work until they don't, the pads and smaller rotors will overheat faster than the Akebonos when pushed to the limit. A friend of mine who ran with the base brakes ended up putting down similar lap times to mine at Fontana Auto Club Speedway but was pushing his brakes to the max, after his session was done he pulled into the garage with smoke billowing from his wheels.

His brakes got so hot that his stopping power dropped significantly. Pretty sure his pads and fluids were toast after that. So to summarize, yeah you can run em and even be competitive but you won't get the longevity, the stopping power or the ability to dissipate heat as easily as you can with the Akebonos
__________________

nismo| EVO-R High Wing | Stillen Gen 3 CAI | SEIBON TS Hood | Z1 34 Row Oil Cooler | VMR 810 Wheels | Endless MX72 Pads |Sabelt GT-140 Seat |Fly1Motorsports RS1 Fenders | Hotchkis Front Sway Bar | Berk HFC |
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 09:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
Track Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: OKC
Posts: 786
Drives: 2010 touring
Rep Power: 7842
SG4247 has a reputation beyond reputeSG4247 has a reputation beyond reputeSG4247 has a reputation beyond reputeSG4247 has a reputation beyond reputeSG4247 has a reputation beyond reputeSG4247 has a reputation beyond reputeSG4247 has a reputation beyond reputeSG4247 has a reputation beyond reputeSG4247 has a reputation beyond reputeSG4247 has a reputation beyond reputeSG4247 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I am not impressed with the sport brakes. Base brakes are not really in the conversation.

I would wait and buy some real brakes, that you KNOW can be trusted.
SG4247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 09:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
YYZ
Base Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 71
Drives: 370z sport 6m 2015
Rep Power: 9
YYZ is on a distinguished road
Default

It's my understanding that you need proper fluid and pads if your serious about tracking your car with sport brakes. Cooling ducts would be a good idea as well.
Eagle, Hotrodz and MaysEffect like this.
__________________
BORLA-SPC-EIBACH-HOTCHKIS
YYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 10:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
Enthusiast Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SoCal
Age: 32
Posts: 383
Drives: Infiniti FX35
Rep Power: 36
MaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Brake cooling is your number one priority. Second is rotor material and pad material. The sport calipers and rotors aren't worth a damn if you don't route better cooling ducts.

You can easily get away with running a stop tech rotor upgrade, better pads and brake lines....and better fluids. But you'll need cooling ducts.

Mono piston calipers however are more susceptible to pad knock back and subsequent rotor warping and uneven pad wear. Your main priority however is Temps. And contrary to belief, a mono piston caliper actually handles heat better than the sport calipers and will cause less fluid boiling.

I personally would just get a stop tech 4 piston front kit and call it a day. Stop tech may be able to get you a str-40 caliper kit for a good price if you call them directly.
cv129 likes this.
MaysEffect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 11:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
cv129's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,235
Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo
Rep Power: 163995
cv129 has a reputation beyond reputecv129 has a reputation beyond reputecv129 has a reputation beyond reputecv129 has a reputation beyond reputecv129 has a reputation beyond reputecv129 has a reputation beyond reputecv129 has a reputation beyond reputecv129 has a reputation beyond reputecv129 has a reputation beyond reputecv129 has a reputation beyond reputecv129 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaysEffect View Post
Brake cooling is your number one priority. Second is rotor material and pad material. The sport calipers and rotors aren't worth a damn if you don't route better cooling ducts.

You can easily get away with running a stop tech rotor upgrade, better pads and brake lines....and better fluids. But you'll need cooling ducts.

Mono piston calipers however are more susceptible to pad knock back and subsequent rotor warping and uneven pad wear. Your main priority however is Temps. And contrary to belief, a mono piston caliper actually handles heat better than the sport calipers and will cause less fluid boiling.

I personally would just get a stop tech 4 piston front kit and call it a day. Stop tech may be able to get you a str-40 caliper kit for a good price if you call them directly.


Cooling Duct should come before switching to different calipers and rotor size. Without better cooling, you will cook whatever hardware upgrade you put in as you push harder and harder.
Rusty likes this.
__________________
Setrab | RE-71 | SPL | JRZ | Nismo | ARK | Whiteline | RacingBrake | CJM Oil Pan | Ti shield
cv129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2018, 10:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
2011 Nismo#91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,401
Drives: slowly
Rep Power: 40569
2011 Nismo#91 has a reputation beyond repute2011 Nismo#91 has a reputation beyond repute2011 Nismo#91 has a reputation beyond repute2011 Nismo#91 has a reputation beyond repute2011 Nismo#91 has a reputation beyond repute2011 Nismo#91 has a reputation beyond repute2011 Nismo#91 has a reputation beyond repute2011 Nismo#91 has a reputation beyond repute2011 Nismo#91 has a reputation beyond repute2011 Nismo#91 has a reputation beyond repute2011 Nismo#91 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HapaZ View Post
Ok I have a base model because when I purchased the car I didn't foresee getting into tracking. 5 years later, that seems to be changing. I've done some autox events and now I think I'm ready to step up to my first actual track day at Thunderhill in a few months. I know people are going to say that if I am serious about tracking the car I should do a sport brake upgrade. I will be budgeting for an akebono upgrade over the next year but I wanted to see if anyone has tracked with the base brakes. Maybe with a pad/fluid upgrade? I see that z1 sells carbotech xp8's/10's for base brakes and I'm considering those before the akebono's. Any input on whether I should skip the track until I've done the full upgrade or if I can get by with pads/fluids in the meantime so I don't have to sit out until next year. Thanks!
Like Eagle said you can but you have to be careful of overheating and losing braking effectiveness. Your first even't and starting in the novice group I don't think you will have an issue with base brakes. I've seen many cars you would not expect to be on the track in the novice group not have an issue with cooking the breaks but you can't push the car as hard is all. You need an oil cooler, high temp brake fluid, and good pads.

IMO: RBF660 and flush or check it often with a tester for water content. I'd go one step higher on the pads 12/10 for these if you can. Just good practice is to know your runoff areas, for example just looking at a map of ThunderHill Turn 10E and 1E are very different for runnoff areas. Keeping straight on 10E buys you atleast triple the distance to slow down as making a slight turn. 1E Though there is alot of run off straight too, a slight turn will give you more distance.
Eagle likes this.
__________________
GTR TT 493Whp/431lbft, Ecutek, Southbend 6puck,Quaife, RPM RollBar 4Point, R888R, JRZ RSPro F(10R/10C) R(10R/6C) 1000f500r inlbs+150inlbs Tender, SPL everywhere.Full Specs
2011 Nismo#91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2018, 12:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 245
Drives: 2012 370z Base Coupe
Rep Power: 11
HapaZ will become famous soon enoughHapaZ will become famous soon enough
Default

Thanks for the help, all! I hadn't even thought of the brake ducts! Seems like no matter what direction I go, they'd be a good place to start as I build up. And just so I'm clear... could I run a stoptech kit up front with the base brakes in the rear? Would that make any sense? Just thinking budget wise about what would be feasible.
HapaZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2018, 12:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
JARblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 43
Posts: 36,450
Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3
Rep Power: 2684440
JARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Big brake kits are are designed with proper F/R brake balance. I wouldn't mix and match calipers. Save your money and do it right the first time.

The base brakes will be fine as long as you get some decent pads and fluids in there and don't do any threshold braking. Get more seat time and take it easy on the brakes until you can upgrade.
Eagle, Rusty and Memphis370Z like this.
__________________

2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic | ARC | CJM | Ecutek | FI | Fujimura | R2C | SPL | Stillen | TWM | Z1 | ZSpeed |
JARblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2018, 12:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
Jayhovah's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: St. Pete, FL
Posts: 3,848
Drives: 520whp Fire Breather
Rep Power: 86951
Jayhovah has a reputation beyond reputeJayhovah has a reputation beyond reputeJayhovah has a reputation beyond reputeJayhovah has a reputation beyond reputeJayhovah has a reputation beyond reputeJayhovah has a reputation beyond reputeJayhovah has a reputation beyond reputeJayhovah has a reputation beyond reputeJayhovah has a reputation beyond reputeJayhovah has a reputation beyond reputeJayhovah has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Budget Akebono kit
Eagle and JARblue like this.
__________________
2013 Gun Metallic Sport - Gamma V3 Twin Turbogized
DIY Gamma V3 TT Install * Jayhovah's Gamma V3 TT Install Pic'Z and Vid'Z * DIY: Washer Reservoir for the Boosted
Quote:
Originally Posted by redondoaveb
You've got a twin turbo sound system, I think you met your audio goals.
Jayhovah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2018, 05:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
Track Member
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Orange County, CA
Posts: 885
Drives: 2011 370z Red 6MT
Rep Power: 10656
Eagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond reputeEagle has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I second what the others said about pads and fluids, regardless what setup you have. Put a good fluid like Endless, Project mU, Motul RBF 660, Brembo HTC64/LCF and a pad that can take higher temps. You might be able to get away with running the OEM pads for one or two track days, but if you want them to last I'd get something better. I'm personally running the Endless MX72 and the MX72+. Looking at moving up to the Endless CCRG next.

As for upgrading to a BBK or adding brake ducts? I don't think thats necessary yet. I have a caliper temperature gauge on my akebonos, the gauge explodes tiny packets of gunpowder as the temperatures rise indicating the high point. In my 2 years of serious time attack driving, i've never had a single one trigger. Maybe i'm just good on my brakes but i know my lap times are fairly competitive.

If you're having heat issues or can't stop the car quick enough, then you should think about doing those things but till then focus on learning the car for now.
__________________

nismo| EVO-R High Wing | Stillen Gen 3 CAI | SEIBON TS Hood | Z1 34 Row Oil Cooler | VMR 810 Wheels | Endless MX72 Pads |Sabelt GT-140 Seat |Fly1Motorsports RS1 Fenders | Hotchkis Front Sway Bar | Berk HFC |

Last edited by Eagle; 04-19-2018 at 05:56 PM.
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2018, 12:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 245
Drives: 2012 370z Base Coupe
Rep Power: 11
HapaZ will become famous soon enoughHapaZ will become famous soon enough
Default

So after considering the options I think I’m going to keep my calipers and run carbotech 10/8 or 12/10’s with the ducts for around $700. I have some RBF 660 that I can use when it’s time to hit the track. Seems like a reasonable way of getting some piece of mind without blowing the bank.
HapaZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2018, 02:54 AM   #13 (permalink)
Enthusiast Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SoCal
Age: 32
Posts: 383
Drives: Infiniti FX35
Rep Power: 36
MaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond reputeMaysEffect has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
could I run a stoptech kit up front with the base brakes in the rear? Would that make any sense? Just thinking budget wise about what would be feasible.
Yes you can. Most big brake kits are not actually designed for F/R balance, but rather how well they match to the standard master cylinder so that pressure is evenly distributed across all 4 calipers. Brembo kits are usually the worst at doing this. Stoptech and AP brakes do a better job if they make a kit specifically for your car. I suggested Stoptech purely because i know for a fact they make kits specifically for the 350z and 370z, so you should have no problems having a caliper properly match your standard system. Most problems stem from people putting on massive 6 piston calipers that do not properly match the master cylinder. This will actually ruin the F/R pressure distribution (Brembos ). A smaller 4 piston caliper with properly matched pistons will work better in most scenarios. The rest is up to heat management.

Also be aware of they fact, coated rotors do not work better for extreme heat abuse. The coating acts as an insulator and traps more heat into the disc surface and can glaze the pad prematurely. This is primarily done for cars in cold climate conditions that are prone to rusting. You want a non coated rotor with wide internal vanes if possible. Slotted/dotted doesn't make much of a difference either, you are just losing surface area, which doesn't help if your rotors are undersized in the first place. You don't need anything larger than a 355mm F/340m R rotor, so stay away from the larger BS unless you plan on going endurance racing.
JARblue likes this.
MaysEffect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2018, 08:44 AM   #14 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
JARblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 43
Posts: 36,450
Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3
Rep Power: 2684440
JARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaysEffect View Post
Most big brake kits are not actually designed for F/R balance, but rather how well they match to the standard master cylinder so that pressure is evenly distributed across all 4 calipers.
__________________

2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic | ARC | CJM | Ecutek | FI | Fujimura | R2C | SPL | Stillen | TWM | Z1 | ZSpeed |
JARblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stop, Drop, and Anti-Roll | Suspension and Brakes @ Real Auto Dynamics Kevin@RAD Suspension/Brakes 231 07-28-2015 03:34 PM
base brakes almost killed me buddyZ Nissan 370Z General Discussions 95 07-03-2012 09:44 PM
Base 370z brakes on a S14 Drodriguez06 Brakes & Suspension 2 04-12-2012 03:46 PM
[FOR SALE] Complete Base Brakes Kit SPOHN Parts for sale (Private Classifieds) 2 06-07-2011 12:32 PM
Touring Brakes vs Base Brakes hey32g Brakes & Suspension 7 07-19-2009 12:55 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2