CSC Teardown

Fountainhead · 07-04-2014, 02:38 PM

Courtesy of JarBlue, I hereby present the fabled unreliable Nissan/Valeo CSC, which undoubtedly is running reliably in thousand upon thousands of vehicles world wide save a robust few on this forum...Size corrected.

chii370 · 07-05-2014, 07:20 PM

aside from the 4k resolution thats awesome, first time ive seen this particular part outside the car on a 370. Pretty evident why it doesnt hold up, being made of mostly plastic it looks like.

Anyone have pics of the couple of aftermarket ones available?

Fountainhead · 07-07-2014, 09:58 AM

OK I haz resized teh photos, sorry for the gigantic rez.

Fountainhead · 07-07-2014, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chii370

aside from the 4k resolution thats awesome, first time ive seen this particular part outside the car on a 370. Pretty evident why it doesnt hold up, being made of mostly plastic it looks like.

Anyone have pics of the couple of aftermarket ones available?

Actually, the working pieces are made of rubber and polished steel. The housing just sits there. The part that wears out is the ORing seal. I've seen a photo of one that plastic part shattered but most of them I think just lose seal due to wear and tear above what the part was designed for, and a contributing factor is dirty clutch fluid wearing the ORing.

L33T Z34 · 08-07-2014, 10:05 PM

Repped. That O-Ring seal is a POS. Probably due to the plasteek heat cycling and deforming... That's where the hydraulic fluid leax out.

Spooler · 08-07-2014, 11:53 PM

This is really nothing new. The older Z's slave cylinders would also go out at about the same mileage and were all metal. What I don't get is Nissan had to know this. It is a common wear and tear item. Why the heck would they put it inside the bell housing to make it such a pain in the butt to replace making you drop the tranny. It was much better when you just changed it on the outside of the bell housing. Cost for replacement was way cheaper.

L33T Z34 · 08-08-2014, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

This is really nothing new. The older Z's slave cylinders would also go out at about the same mileage and were all metal. What I don't get is Nissan had to know this. It is a common wear and tear item. Why the heck would they put it inside the bell housing to make it such a pain in the butt to replace making you drop the tranny. It was much better when you just changed it on the outside of the bell housing. Cost for replacement was way cheaper.

HuH

The DE 350s used a clutch fork, which I believe to be a poorer design than the CSCs of modern manual tranny vehicles...

Fountainhead · 08-08-2014, 07:25 PM

Hey L33t,
Thanks for the rep.
I guess hydraulically speaking, an O-ring is the only solution for a device like this. I suppose a better O-ring material could be used but I guess engineers deemed it sufficient for the intended purpose.
The CSC donated by JarBlue had 52,000 miles on it and (to my eyes) showed no scarring on the cylinder bores and only damage to the O-ring where I gouged around messing with it. It was working when taken out. What I find most amazing is the thrust bearing is ALWAYS against the clutch fingers and spins at the same speed as the engine. It's not bathed in oil or lubed after manufacture, yet the one from JB's spins so smooth you can't feel any friction. Amazing bearing technology.
I have faith in the guys that designed the piece, my neighbor's new Z06/z07 Stingray has a CSC, and in just a few trips to the track guess what? His CSC started failing! (or rather his clutch pedal failed to return to top/start position).
So he cleaned out his Filthy black clutch fluid and it's OK now.
Treat this things right - no race car - and they'll treat you right. I would rather have the clutch fork myself though.

1slow370 · 08-08-2014, 08:36 PM

well corvettes are still running the inline restrictor he just needs to drill that **** out. the 370z main flaw in the csc is in a spot you have not taken apart yet

The piston seal which is the one you have pulled out is not the main culprit of the csc bitchness, and actually spinning the throwout bearing all the time is much easier on it than not, it is the acceleration load when it spins up to clutch speed that normally kills a throwout bearing, they go from 0 to w/e rpm the engine is turning almost instantly causing slipping AKA sliding friction as well as extremely high loads on the cage.

olddudesrule · 08-09-2014, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fountainhead

Hey L33t,
Thanks for the rep.
I guess hydraulically speaking, an O-ring is the only solution for a device like this. I suppose a better O-ring material could be used but I guess engineers deemed it sufficient for the intended purpose.
The CSC donated by JarBlue had 52,000 miles on it and (to my eyes) showed no scarring on the cylinder bores and only damage to the O-ring where I gouged around messing with it. It was working when taken out. What I find most amazing is the thrust bearing is ALWAYS against the clutch fingers and spins at the same speed as the engine. It's not bathed in oil or lubed after manufacture, yet the one from JB's spins so smooth you can't feel any friction. Amazing bearing technology.
I have faith in the guys that designed the piece, my neighbor's new Z06/z07 Stingray has a CSC, and in just a few trips to the track guess what? His CSC started failing! (or rather his clutch pedal failed to return to top/start position).
So he cleaned out his Filthy black clutch fluid and it's OK now.
Treat this things right - no race car - and they'll treat you right. I would rather have the clutch fork myself though.

Spot on!. I've owned an 2003 and 2007 Z06, and as a whole, they were prone to CSC failures when pushed hard. I had some minor issues, but I attributed it to excessive heat, as both mine had LTH's. Once I shielded the hydraulic lines, the problem became less of an issue. Planned on doing the same thing with the Z, but I've never tracked it yet.

07-04-2014, 02:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
Fountainhead Track Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: FL Posts: 834 Drives: 2019 Civic Type R Rep Power: 14	CSC Teardown Courtesy of JarBlue, I hereby present the fabled unreliable Nissan/Valeo CSC, which undoubtedly is running reliably in thousand upon thousands of vehicles world wide save a robust few on this forum...Size corrected. 370zrider likes this. Last edited by Fountainhead; 07-07-2014 at 09:33 PM.

07-07-2014, 09:58 AM	#3 (permalink)
Fountainhead Track Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: FL Posts: 834 Drives: 2019 Civic Type R Rep Power: 14	OK I haz resized teh photos, sorry for the gigantic rez. DEpointfive0 likes this.

08-08-2014, 07:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
Fountainhead Track Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: FL Posts: 834 Drives: 2019 Civic Type R Rep Power: 14	Hey L33t, Thanks for the rep. I guess hydraulically speaking, an O-ring is the only solution for a device like this. I suppose a better O-ring material could be used but I guess engineers deemed it sufficient for the intended purpose. The CSC donated by JarBlue had 52,000 miles on it and (to my eyes) showed no scarring on the cylinder bores and only damage to the O-ring where I gouged around messing with it. It was working when taken out. What I find most amazing is the thrust bearing is ALWAYS against the clutch fingers and spins at the same speed as the engine. It's not bathed in oil or lubed after manufacture, yet the one from JB's spins so smooth you can't feel any friction. Amazing bearing technology. I have faith in the guys that designed the piece, my neighbor's new Z06/z07 Stingray has a CSC, and in just a few trips to the track guess what? His CSC started failing! (or rather his clutch pedal failed to return to top/start position). So he cleaned out his Filthy black clutch fluid and it's OK now. Treat this things right - no race car - and they'll treat you right. I would rather have the clutch fork myself though. olddudesrule likes this. Last edited by Fountainhead; 08-08-2014 at 07:32 PM.

08-08-2014, 08:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	well corvettes are still running the inline restrictor he just needs to drill that ** out. the 370z main flaw in the csc is in a spot you have not taken apart yet The piston seal which is the one you have pulled out is not the main culprit of the csc bitchness, and actually spinning the throwout bearing all the time is much easier on it than not, it is the acceleration load when it spins up to clutch speed that normally kills a throwout bearing, they go from 0 to w/e rpm the engine is turning almost instantly causing slipping AKA sliding friction as well as extremely high loads on the cage. fuct likes this. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST** Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 08-08-2014 at 08:40 PM.

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07-05-2014, 07:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
chii370 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: . Posts: 642 Drives: . Rep Power: 16	aside from the 4k resolution thats awesome, first time ive seen this particular part outside the car on a 370. Pretty evident why it doesnt hold up, being made of mostly plastic it looks like. Anyone have pics of the couple of aftermarket ones available?

08-07-2014, 10:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
L33T Z34 Banned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Ahnald, MO Age: 47 Posts: 387 Drives: 09 K51 G C Bw/S 6MT Rep Power: 0	Repped. That O-Ring seal is a POS. Probably due to the plasteek heat cycling and deforming... That's where the hydraulic fluid leax out.

08-07-2014, 11:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 13,834 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684392	This is really nothing new. The older Z's slave cylinders would also go out at about the same mileage and were all metal. What I don't get is Nissan had to know this. It is a common wear and tear item. Why the heck would they put it inside the bell housing to make it such a pain in the butt to replace making you drop the tranny. It was much better when you just changed it on the outside of the bell housing. Cost for replacement was way cheaper.