VVEL relay diagnostics problems

fritz · 03-22-2014, 11:49 AM

VVEL relays (diagnostics may not recognise them, and why.)
Symptoms. (one or all)
Intermittent gas pedal response
Violent diesel noise, conceivable due to arcing “sizzle” of contact points on the relay: (switch it off!)
Sudden complete loss of gas pedal response (real on-the-road danger!!).

R&D Testing: A thin knife down each side of the VVEL relay allows the plastic to unhook itself. Pull out the relay. (Breaking the plastic? No problem…no other maker uses these simple shrouds).
a) Remove the relay. Start engine. Throttle response is gone. Idle and max RPM is at 1200-1300. … (maybe more with a warm motor) Switch off the motor.
b) Remove the PWM relay (next slot) and plug it into the VVEL slot.
c) Start engine. Responses will be OK and the car drives normally. (Now you can recognise a VVEL relay problem in minutes and no “diagnostics b/s”!)
d) This is a standard on/off contact point relay with (normal enough) resistor protection.

Please do NOT trust a Consult3 diagnostics check. It cannot pull the relay code but will hit you with 2 or 3 expensive codes….and the stated “get you home” 3,000-3,500 RPM is confusing. nonsense.** (** Based on tests with two Consult3 diagnostic devices, one private, and one at a dealer.)

History:
Early Infiniti G70 VVEL relays were problems. They included wrong relay positioning in parts and Service manuals and/or on-car: an Infiniti TSB in 2008 supposedly cleared up the confusion. It didn’t.

The 370Z used the same engine, a year later. Problems remained with parts and shop manuals which maybe got the position right on one page but got it wrong on the others.
Who would know?

Fritz (One of two posts. T’other is on general discussions “Nissan steps up to the plate”)

Jordo! · 03-22-2014, 01:54 PM

This is quite a useful piece of info for folks trying to trouble shoot such problems -- thanks for sharing

juld0zer · 07-24-2014, 12:22 AM

this could be the next phase of my intermittent loss of throttle response investigation...

so a bunch of faulty relays eh?

AdrianV1201 · 10-07-2022, 07:20 PM

Can anyone provide a video on how to remove the vvel relay. I can’t seem to get it to budge and don’t want to break anything.

THE BULL · 10-10-2022, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdrianV1201

Can anyone provide a video on how to remove the vvel relay. I can’t seem to get it to budge and don’t want to break anything.

The latch for the relay is underneath the relay socket.

There is a cover at the bottom of this little box that comes out and lets you have access to the relay holding latch.

Once you have located the latch pull on the latch while pulling on the relays.

FYI almost never the VVEL relay is the problem. One quick test is to swap this relay with the PWM fan relay and if you fans operate you can disregard the VVEL relay being the issue.

Anubis · 06-26-2023, 05:51 PM

I still cannot figure out how to get the relays out, I’ve tried pulling back on what I could think would be holding it and I can’t get them to move

Anubis · 06-26-2023, 06:58 PM

Could anyone show me a video on how to take them out by chance?

Taser · 07-06-2023, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BULL

FYI almost never the VVEL relay is the problem. One quick test is to swap this relay with the PWM fan relay and if you fans operate you can disregard the VVEL relay being the issue.

Just had a CEL, P1091. The car only revs to 2k. I switched the VVEL relay with the PWM relay next to it, cleared the CEL memory .... problem solved.

I opened the relay and noticed some corrotion on the contact surface.

To avoid any more issues, I replaced both relays.

fritz · 07-07-2023, 03:20 AM

The difference is:

Placing your VVEL relay in the fan relay slot may well be adequate for the fan which works very infrequently. Relay points don't get hot or sizzle.

Thus you will prove nothing (other than it's OK-ish for occasional use)

The VVEL Relay contacts get hot, arc. or sizzle. VVEL can go on/off frequently.

Using the known good PWM relay (which is right next to the VVEL relay)....to prove the VVEL is OK/or not... is a valid test procedure if you have no new relay, takes a minute........ is cheap, simple, and often satisfying.

The OE VVEL relay is/was a standard item, maybe at its top designed limit but "just adequate". 10 years ago I posted "alternative" part numbers...long forgot....no better but cheaper and readily available without recourse to
Nissan stock.

Fritz

halonut · 07-16-2023, 05:16 PM

I had to break away the really thin plastic that surrounds the base. This exposed where the relay & base joined and I just pried the connection between the two gently to start it & then it was easy to pull apart. Did the same with PWM/fan relay & swapped the two which cleared the p1091 code & car rev's normally. Now waiting for two new relays, 25230-9F915, to come in so I can replace the bad & the old one and keep the old relay for a spare. The two relays are identical.

I never found the mythical release clips.

03-22-2014, 11:49 AM	#1 (permalink)
fritz Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Andorre Posts: 90 Drives: 2010 370Z M6 Rep Power: 16	VVEL relay diagnostics problems VVEL relays (diagnostics may not recognise them, and why.) Symptoms. (one or all) Intermittent gas pedal response Violent diesel noise, conceivable due to arcing “sizzle” of contact points on the relay: (switch it off!) Sudden complete loss of gas pedal response (real on-the-road danger!!). R&D Testing: A thin knife down each side of the VVEL relay allows the plastic to unhook itself. Pull out the relay. (Breaking the plastic? No problem…no other maker uses these simple shrouds). a) Remove the relay. Start engine. Throttle response is gone. Idle and max RPM is at 1200-1300. … (maybe more with a warm motor) Switch off the motor. b) Remove the PWM relay (next slot) and plug it into the VVEL slot. c) Start engine. Responses will be OK and the car drives normally. (Now you can recognise a VVEL relay problem in minutes and no “diagnostics b/s”!) d) This is a standard on/off contact point relay with (normal enough) resistor protection. Please do NOT trust a Consult3 diagnostics check. It cannot pull the relay code but will hit you with 2 or 3 expensive codes….and the stated “get you home” 3,000-3,500 RPM is confusing. nonsense. ( Based on tests with two Consult3 diagnostic devices, one private, and one at a dealer.) History: Early Infiniti G70 VVEL relays were problems. They included wrong relay positioning in parts and Service manuals and/or on-car: an Infiniti TSB in 2008 supposedly cleared up the confusion. It didn’t. The 370Z used the same engine, a year later. Problems remained with parts and shop manuals which maybe got the position right on one page but got it wrong on the others. Who would know? Fritz (One of two posts. T’other is on general discussions “Nissan steps up to the plate”) DOOMMONKEY777 and JARblue like this.

03-22-2014, 01:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	This is quite a useful piece of info for folks trying to trouble shoot such problems -- thanks for sharing __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

10-07-2022, 07:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
AdrianV1201 Base Member Join Date: May 2022 Location: Houston Posts: 2 Drives: 10 Nissan W 370Z Rep Power: 3	Replacing the VVEL relay Can anyone provide a video on how to remove the vvel relay. I can’t seem to get it to budge and don’t want to break anything.

07-07-2023, 03:20 AM	#9 (permalink)
fritz Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Andorre Posts: 90 Drives: 2010 370Z M6 Rep Power: 16	The difference is: Placing your VVEL relay in the fan relay slot may well be adequate for the fan which works very infrequently. Relay points don't get hot or sizzle. Thus you will prove nothing (other than it's OK-ish for occasional use) The VVEL Relay contacts get hot, arc. or sizzle. VVEL can go on/off frequently. Using the known good PWM relay (which is right next to the VVEL relay)....to prove the VVEL is OK/or not... is a valid test procedure if you have no new relay, takes a minute........ is cheap, simple, and often satisfying. The OE VVEL relay is/was a standard item, maybe at its top designed limit but "just adequate". 10 years ago I posted "alternative" part numbers...long forgot....no better but cheaper and readily available without recourse to Nissan stock. Fritz JARblue and Ventruck like this.

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07-24-2014, 12:22 AM	#3 (permalink)
juld0zer Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Sydney Posts: 428 Drives: 11 Nissan 370Z MB M6 Rep Power: 139	this could be the next phase of my intermittent loss of throttle response investigation... so a bunch of faulty relays eh?

06-26-2023, 05:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
Anubis Base Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Alabama Posts: 2 Drives: 2010 Nissan 370Z m6 Rep Power: 3	I still cannot figure out how to get the relays out, I’ve tried pulling back on what I could think would be holding it and I can’t get them to move

06-26-2023, 06:58 PM	#7 (permalink)
Anubis Base Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Alabama Posts: 2 Drives: 2010 Nissan 370Z m6 Rep Power: 3	Could anyone show me a video on how to take them out by chance?

07-16-2023, 05:16 PM	#10 (permalink)
halonut Base Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: TN Posts: 12 Drives: 2009 370Z 6sp Rep Power: 6	I had to break away the really thin plastic that surrounds the base. This exposed where the relay & base joined and I just pried the connection between the two gently to start it & then it was easy to pull apart. Did the same with PWM/fan relay & swapped the two which cleared the p1091 code & car rev's normally. Now waiting for two new relays, 25230-9F915, to come in so I can replace the bad & the old one and keep the old relay for a spare. The two relays are identical. I never found the mythical release clips.