atuocross shocks and swaybars

howardrjarret · 03-11-2018, 04:27 PM

hi was hoping I could find someone on here that could guild me to a proper autocross shock and swaybar , I have a 2016 370z nismo I ve been running re-71s for about 6 months now I run in A street and don't want to change classes I am only allowed to change shocks and 1 sway bar front or rear but not both. Ive been racing againt 2012 z06 vettes and 1le cameros porche 911and getting spanked, my driving skills need work but so does the car could someone guide me in the right direction please

JARblue · 03-11-2018, 07:07 PM

First off, the Z has a significant disadvantage against the cars you are competing against. The autocross classes are not particularly Z friendly. Seat time is your best friend. But of course, there are some things you can do to help.

Change the front sway bar. A lot of the track guys (I think) choose Hotchkis. Maybe also try removing the rear sway bar - not sure if both are an option for your class. Testing out a few different configurations on your car would be ideal.

Based on my research, Koni Yellows are probably your best bet for shocks. Others with specific experience will be able to provide much more insight (I'm still on OEM shocks). You might even be able to find a well priced street used set in good condition on this forum or via other avenues.

Quicksilvers · 03-11-2018, 09:48 PM

Good luck this is not the best event for our cars. Track time is the best thing you can do to help you. A good suspension set up is a must. Koni or Bilstien struts and shocks would be highly recommended. Springs would help also. You will have try different things with your suspension to see what works for you. I would try installing a front sway bar and removing the rear sway bar. Your suspension would be my main concern and wheel/tires not adding more power into the mix.

Jhill · 03-12-2018, 05:31 PM

Well those cars have a bit more torque than ours so that is going to hurt in auto x because it’s all turn exit power for short course. Since you can’t change spring rates then you will most likely have to go with the big bar soft spring style suspension so the Hotchkis may be you best bet however it also may overpower the rear bar and lead to a massive pushing car. The Eibach with its adjustability might be a better way to go if that’s the case. As for dampers I have not tried either the bilstein or Koni for this particular car but I think I would lean towards the bilstein simply because they typically have a firmer low speed compression damping (more of a digressive tune) than the konis (the konis damper adjustment is rebound not compression). You can use rebound to tune understeer/oversteer but with the soft oem springs and konis softer compression (typically) I don’t know if you’ll get the support you want. Maybe go Hotchkis with konis and use the dampers for tuning or go bilstein with Eibach and use the bar setting for tuning but one way or another you’ll want to be able to have some form of adjustability so I wouldn’t go Hotchkis bilstein.

howardrjarret · 03-13-2018, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhill

Well those cars have a bit more torque than ours so that is going to hurt in auto x because it’s all turn exit power for short course. Since you can’t change spring rates then you will most likely have to go with the big bar soft spring style suspension so the Hotchkis may be you best bet however it also may overpower the rear bar and lead to a massive pushing car. The Eibach with its adjustability might be a better way to go if that’s the case. As for dampers I have not tried either the bilstein or Koni for this particular car but I think I would lean towards the bilstein simply because they typically have a firmer low speed compression damping (more of a digressive tune) than the konis (the konis damper adjustment is rebound not compression). You can use rebound to tune understeer/oversteer but with the soft oem springs and konis softer compression (typically) I don’t know if you’ll get the support you want. Maybe go Hotchkis with konis and use the dampers for tuning or go bilstein with Eibach and use the bar setting for tuning but one way or another you’ll want to be able to have some form of adjustability so I wouldn’t go Hotchkis bilstein.

thanks for the input ,seems that I have a lot of pushing all ready car doesn't seem to get lose in the rear and pushes the front instead of turning , im sure my foot is not helping as I have a heavy foot but am working on theat I have about 18 events under my belt and only want to do better thanks

gomer_110 · 03-13-2018, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howardrjarret

thanks for the input ,seems that I have a lot of pushing all ready car doesn't seem to get lose in the rear and pushes the front instead of turning , im sure my foot is not helping as I have a heavy foot but am working on theat I have about 18 events under my belt and only want to do better thanks

My guess is the car isn't as pushy as you think. When I first got started I had the same mindset. As time has progressed and I've learned to be a better driver, I've actually stiffened the front up more to account for getting back to the gas earlier and not losing the rear end.

Two big tips:

1. Get ahead on your inputs, steering and more importantly, braking.
2. Use the throttle to get the car to rotate better.

howardrjarret · 03-13-2018, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110

My guess is the car isn't as pushy as you think. When I first got started I had the same mindset. As time has progressed and I've learned to be a better driver, I've actually stiffened the front up more to account for getting back to the gas earlier and not losing the rear end.

Two big tips:

1. Get ahead on your inputs, steering and more importantly, braking.
2. Use the throttle to get the car to rotate better.

thanks , as I am getting better with each event I attend I find myself pushing harder , just need to slow down to go faster

Jhill · 03-14-2018, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howardrjarret

thanks for the input ,seems that I have a lot of pushing all ready car doesn't seem to get lose in the rear and pushes the front instead of turning , im sure my foot is not helping as I have a heavy foot but am working on theat I have about 18 events under my belt and only want to do better thanks

Yea I’m still playing with the balance myself and thought I had it dialed, was great in the dry and felt completely neutral. Now after a wet track day I’m looking for a body shop to repaint my front and rear bumpers (oops). Luckily I was going slow on turn 3 at leguna just getting onto the track and the rear end spun so fast I couldn’t believe it and ended up bumping the tire wall. Now I’m rethinking my sway bar balance because if the wet is any sign to how fast it will let go at the limit in the dry then I need a little more warning then that.

Hotrodz · 03-14-2018, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhill

Yea I’m still playing with the balance myself and thought I had it dialed, was great in the dry and felt completely neutral. Now after a wet track day I’m looking for a body shop to repaint my front and rear bumpers (oops). Luckily I was going slow on turn 3 at leguna just getting onto the track and the rear end spun so fast I couldn’t believe it and ended up bumping the tire wall. Now I’m rethinking my sway bar balance because if the wet is any sign to how fast it will let go at the limit in the dry then I need a little more warning then that.

You can't compare wet and dry driving as they are totally different. You can't toss the car in the wet like you can in the dry. Your right foot was probably the issue lol. Tires are a big factor to minimize hydroplaning. Race teams have a total different set up when running in the wet. Rain tires and raising the ride height for starters.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Jhill · 03-15-2018, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

You can't compare wet and dry driving as they are totally different. You can't toss the car in the wet like you can in the dry. Your right foot was probably the issue lol. Tires are a big factor to minimize hydroplaning. Race teams have a total different set up when running in the wet. Rain tires and raising the ride height for starters.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Yea probably a fluke, kind of a perfect storm of cold tires, cold track and very first turn being wet, also sways were set to my medium/medium dry setting and dampers were set to what I liked last time (which was dry). I'm was also guilty of not really understanding what the ecutek traction control did vs vdc. I'll be sticking with vdc in the wet, it seems ecutek delays the stability part of vdc and not just the wheel slip traction portion as none of the diagonal braking kicked in or anything and it did later with vdc on going down the corkscrew. Once I set the bars soft/soft the next session it was a ton better (maybe should have only softened the rear) but still a bit of a handful, probably needed to soften the dampers and ideally I would have liked a milder throttle response for that day, may be looking into the ecutek Bluetooth for that. Ideally I won't ever be doing another wet track day but it had been dry all season and then was too late to cancel.

Rusty · 03-16-2018, 01:11 AM

Wet tracks can be fun or a death ride. It's how you go about it. My first wet track. I started slow and slowly worked up some speed. Testing where my grip was and wasn't. It's fun when you can hang the rear out, or do a 4 wheel drift.

But when you turn the wheel and NOTHING happens.

You KNOW you was a bit too fast! When you get back to the pits. You start pulling seat cover out of your butt.

MaysEffect · 03-16-2018, 03:55 AM

👀

PharmDZ · 03-16-2018, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

First off, the Z has a significant disadvantage against the cars you are competing against. The autocross classes are not particularly Z friendly. Seat time is your best friend. But of course, there are some things you can do to help.

Change the front sway bar. A lot of the track guys (I think) choose Hotchkis. Maybe also try removing the rear sway bar - not sure if both are an option for your class. Testing out a few different configurations on your car would be ideal.

Based on my research, Koni Yellows are probably your best bet for shocks. Others with specific experience will be able to provide much more insight (I'm still on OEM shocks). You might even be able to find a well priced street used set in good condition on this forum or via other avenues.

Beg to differ with the new STU class change! Haha but we will see how the car does...

Personally I went with a Hotchkis front bar, removed the rear bar, and then added BC DR Coilovers with 18k/14k swift springs, revalved recently by Feal Suspension. We'll see how it performs this year on street tires. Felt fantastic on Hoosier A7's.

240se · 03-23-2018, 04:09 PM

Since you have a fairly new Nismo your shocks are probably not that bad. A front swaybar is a cheap and easy place to start. A front Eibach bar is adjustable and on it's stiffest setting is a little softer than the Hotchkis bar.

What front tire size are you running? I have only run a couple of autoxes but they were tight courses and I found myself wanting more front grip. You could go as wide as 285/35-19 on the front Nismo rims.

03-11-2018, 04:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
howardrjarret Base Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: ftmyers fl. Posts: 15 Drives: 2016 370z nismo teck Rep Power: 10	atuocross shocks and swaybars hi was hoping I could find someone on here that could guild me to a proper autocross shock and swaybar , I have a 2016 370z nismo I ve been running re-71s for about 6 months now I run in A street and don't want to change classes I am only allowed to change shocks and 1 sway bar front or rear but not both. Ive been racing againt 2012 z06 vettes and 1le cameros porche 911and getting spanked, my driving skills need work but so does the car could someone guide me in the right direction please

03-11-2018, 07:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
JARblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX Age: 43 Posts: 36,450 Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3 Rep Power: 2684440	First off, the Z has a significant disadvantage against the cars you are competing against. The autocross classes are not particularly Z friendly. Seat time is your best friend. But of course, there are some things you can do to help. Change the front sway bar. A lot of the track guys (I think) choose Hotchkis. Maybe also try removing the rear sway bar - not sure if both are an option for your class. Testing out a few different configurations on your car would be ideal. Based on my research, Koni Yellows are probably your best bet for shocks. Others with specific experience will be able to provide much more insight (I'm still on OEM shocks). You might even be able to find a well priced street used set in good condition on this forum or via other avenues. __________________ 2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic \| ARC \| CJM \| Ecutek \| FI \| Fujimura \| R2C \| SPL \| Stillen \| TWM \| Z1 \| ZSpeed \| Last edited by JARblue; 03-11-2018 at 07:11 PM.

03-16-2018, 01:11 AM	#11 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,217 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684438	Wet tracks can be fun or a death ride. It's how you go about it. My first wet track. I started slow and slowly worked up some speed. Testing where my grip was and wasn't. It's fun when you can hang the rear out, or do a 4 wheel drift. But when you turn the wheel and NOTHING happens. You KNOW you was a bit too fast! When you get back to the pits. You start pulling seat cover out of your butt. Hotrodz and Spooler like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

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03-11-2018, 09:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
Quicksilvers A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2017 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 2,039 Drives: 2017 370z Rep Power: 25463	Good luck this is not the best event for our cars. Track time is the best thing you can do to help you. A good suspension set up is a must. Koni or Bilstien struts and shocks would be highly recommended. Springs would help also. You will have try different things with your suspension to see what works for you. I would try installing a front sway bar and removing the rear sway bar. Your suspension would be my main concern and wheel/tires not adding more power into the mix.

03-12-2018, 05:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
Jhill Track Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: San jose Posts: 854 Drives: 2013 370z sport Rep Power: 3384	Well those cars have a bit more torque than ours so that is going to hurt in auto x because it’s all turn exit power for short course. Since you can’t change spring rates then you will most likely have to go with the big bar soft spring style suspension so the Hotchkis may be you best bet however it also may overpower the rear bar and lead to a massive pushing car. The Eibach with its adjustability might be a better way to go if that’s the case. As for dampers I have not tried either the bilstein or Koni for this particular car but I think I would lean towards the bilstein simply because they typically have a firmer low speed compression damping (more of a digressive tune) than the konis (the konis damper adjustment is rebound not compression). You can use rebound to tune understeer/oversteer but with the soft oem springs and konis softer compression (typically) I don’t know if you’ll get the support you want. Maybe go Hotchkis with konis and use the dampers for tuning or go bilstein with Eibach and use the bar setting for tuning but one way or another you’ll want to be able to have some form of adjustability so I wouldn’t go Hotchkis bilstein.

03-16-2018, 03:55 AM	#12 (permalink)
MaysEffect Enthusiast Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: SoCal Age: 32 Posts: 383 Drives: Infiniti FX35 Rep Power: 36	👀

03-23-2018, 04:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
240se Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: VA Posts: 260 Drives: Gunmetal 12' Rep Power: 12	Since you have a fairly new Nismo your shocks are probably not that bad. A front swaybar is a cheap and easy place to start. A front Eibach bar is adjustable and on it's stiffest setting is a little softer than the Hotchkis bar. What front tire size are you running? I have only run a couple of autoxes but they were tight courses and I found myself wanting more front grip. You could go as wide as 285/35-19 on the front Nismo rims.