Audio System Suggestions?

avantcrap · 05-20-2016, 01:09 AM

Hello All,

I upgraded my stock HU last year for a Pioneer AVH-4100NEX since I wanted carplay integration (it's been awesome for me, since I like being able to connect my phone for music & GPS if needed).

Anyway, I've been really wanting to upgrade my speakers as well, but I'm not sure what to go for. I'd prefer something tried and true with the community to working well in the smaller cabin of the Z, but also something a bit more refined sound-wise since I listen to a lot of Jazz.

Ask me these questions when talking about home HIFI equipment and I could rattle off gear no problem, but with car audio it's a whole different ball game.

Polk audio makes decent budget speakers in the home setting, but not sure about their quality of car speakers.

I'm looking for middle of the road speakers. I'm not looking to drop thousands on speakers for my car, but don't want to go through the trouble of getting new ones and installing if there will be negligible difference compared to my current ones.

My car has bose speakers (it was non-nav originally, if that helps) and part of me wonders if they are really bose speakers or if the bose logo was just stuck on them to trick everyone. Bose isn't really great anyway with their speaker quality (someone is going to flame me for that statement probably).

I've gone back and forth about adding rear speakers and know there are mixed reviews with whether or not to get them, but if it helps with recommendations, I am NOT planning on getting a sub in the cargo area. I actually utilize the cargo area to store things fairly often and do not want to lose my spare either.

Anyway, anyone with some insight or suggestions, feel free to post.

Thanks everyone!

ChaseZ · 05-20-2016, 02:07 AM

I'm going through the same set of decisions as you right now. And even that 4100NEX is one of three head units I've narrowed it down to, not least because it is on for a very good sale price right now. I'm glad to hear you like it, CarPlay included as there are very mixed reviews on it.

It sounds like we share thoughts on home audio as well. I've got NAD, Klipsch, Paradigm and some Polk running there.

As to car speakers I think I've narrowed it down the Polk components. For 6.5" speakers they seem to have about the greatest dynamic range available in the mid level price point. For $300 or so I think they will be a good purchase, with tweeters and crossovers. For the low end they cut off around 30hz which is substantially lower than most others I've seen in that range. By all accounts they are just as clean as punchy as the affordable Polk home audio cousins that you are familiar with. Im not interested in even small subs, or the space they would take up.

I've noticed there are many here that dismiss the rear 3.5s in our cars, however I think they will fill the soundstage gaps that are left by only having the door speakers up front so I'm going to run them as well.

avantcrap · 05-20-2016, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseZ

I'm going through the same set of decisions as you right now. And even that 4100NEX is one of three head units I've narrowed it down to, not least because it is on for a very good sale price right now. I'm glad to hear you like it, CarPlay included as there are very mixed reviews on it.

Yeah, I've enjoyed it so far. Haven't had any issues with it at all, and it works well for what I need it for. The higher end models come with their own GPS, but I figured that'd be a waste of money if I can use GPS from my phone via carplay.

Quote:

It sounds like we share thoughts on home audio as well. I've got NAD, Klipsch and some Polk running there.

My home speakers are Tannoy, which I really love for the music I listen to. The midrange on them is really lovely! My setup is mostly for vinyl records, though I do have a decent Arcam CD player with dual-DACs that is nice. My amps are all tubes. My home audio knowledge doesn't translate too well to cars lol.

Quote:

As to car speakers I think I've narrowed it down the Polk components. For 6.5" speakers they seem to have about the greatest dynamic range available in the mid level price point. For $300 or so I think they will be a good purchase, with tweeters and crossovers. For the low end they cut off around 30hz which is substantially lower than most others I've seen in that range. By all accounts they are just as clean as punchy as the affordable Polk home audio cousins that you are familiar with. Im not interested in even small subs, or the space they would take up.

I've noticed there are many here that dismiss the rear 3.5s in our cars, however I think they will fill the soundstage gaps that are left by only having the door speakers up front so I'm going to run them as well.

I was thinking about the same with this. I think if I had a sub, I would be more inclined to skip the rear speakers, but without one the soundstage will seem a little lacking without anything in the rear. I was looking at the polk db5251 set (which is bizarre since crutch field brings it up as being ok in the doors in their search but in your cart they say it isn't recommended), but not sure about it. Also not really sure how it all works in the car. With these, would the tweeters go in the dash area and the speakers in the doors with the crossovers?

With the rear speakers, I cannot find any polks in that size and not sure really what to get that would work in that space.

What a headache!

avantcrap · 05-20-2016, 03:24 AM

My bad, It looks like crutchfield was suggesting the incorrect size for the door speakers. The correct size is 6.5"

I found a set: DB6501 that seems to get good reviews.
For the 3.5": DB351

It's all less than $200 plus wiring and installation cost which will probably run a good bit more than that, considering the rears are kind of labor intensive from what I've heard.

YzGyz · 05-20-2016, 11:11 AM

Best bet is to go to a nice and big car audio place and listen. Heck, visit a few and just listen to what they have on display and hooked up. It wont translate directly to being actually in the car cabin but close enough. Write down the ones you like and go home and do research on them. I'm into audio period, but I can't afford the speakers nor amps I want so I setting for the great bang for buck stuff (I'd get some Mark Levinson stuff).

You can read reviews all day but you still will never know what a specific speaker will sound like unless you hear it in person. You have tubes. You know that they are "warmer" sounding compared the cap/resister/ect amps, pre-amps,receivers. Each speaker is made and built to play a certain genre better than others.

As for Wax (vynle records), I have 1000's of them myself so I know what you mean.

YzGyz

SouthArk370Z · 05-20-2016, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avantcrap

... My car has bose speakers ... Bose isn't really great anyway with their speaker quality (someone is going to flame me for that statement probably).

I've gone back and forth about adding rear speakers and know there are mixed reviews with whether or not to get them, but if it helps with recommendations, ...

While the Bose system sounds decent (not great, if you're into hi-fi, but you ain't gonna get hi-fi in a car), I can't imagine the speakers sounding very good with a different HU. YMMV

I prefer a car system with rear speakers but everyone's ears are different. If you like rear speakers, go for it. If not (eg, you are used to a two-speaker home system), why bother?

Quote:

Originally Posted by YzGyz

... It wont translate directly to being actually in the car cabin but close enough. Write down the ones you like and go home and do research on them.
... You can read reviews all day but you still will never know what a specific speaker will sound like unless you hear it in person. You have tubes. You know that they are "warmer" sounding compared the cap/resister/ect amps, pre-amps,receivers. Each speaker is made and built to play a certain genre better than others.

As for Wax (vynle records), I have 1000's of them myself so I know what you mean.

Listening to different speakers is a great idea. You can get an idea of relative quality and weed out the lower-quality speakers. Just keep in mind that what you hear in the store will not be what you hear in the car.

I have my vinyl in storage. I kinda miss the ritual of inspecting the LP, cleaning it, dropping the needle, &c, but popping in a CD and hitting Play is sooooo much easier.

avantcrap · 05-20-2016, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

While the Bose system sounds decent (not great, if you're into hi-fi, but you ain't gonna get hi-fi in a car), I can't imagine the speakers sounding very good with a different HU. YMMV

I prefer a car system with rear speakers but everyone's ears are different. If you like rear speakers, go for it. If not (eg, you are used to a two-speaker home system), why bother?

True, but a two-speaker home system with very high quality speakers, preamps, and amps creates a soundstage that fills your room. Generally the speakers are directly in front of you and bounce sound off of the walls behind you to give a space-filling sound. Door panel speakers are at a disadvantage when trying to create a soundstage because of their positioning. I may just go for the up front replacement first and if I don't feel it's full enough for my liking then getting rears installed. I supposed I could end up getting surprised. I don't really have experience building systems for cars and they're such a unique challenge.

Quote:

Listening to different speakers is a great idea. You can get an idea of relative quality and weed out the lower-quality speakers. Just keep in mind that what you hear in the store will not be what you hear in the car.

This is true, but it's also a scary way for me to blow my budget extremely fast. I almost financed a pair of $20,000 loudspeakers for my home after hearing them before I smacked myself in the face to snap out of it. haha!

Quote:

I have my vinyl in storage. I kinda miss the ritual of inspecting the LP, cleaning it, dropping the needle, &c, but popping in a CD and hitting Play is sooooo much easier.

It is way easier, yes. For certain things (classical music is one big example) it's much better to have it on CD. Finding pristine vinyl copies of classical works is tough and even then theres usually some background noise. With music so dynamic, clicks and pops ruin it. With a lot of the jazz albums I have, many of them have never been issued on CD, so vinyl is the only option.

avantcrap · 05-20-2016, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YzGyz

Best bet is to go to a nice and big car audio place and listen. Heck, visit a few and just listen to what they have on display and hooked up. It wont translate directly to being actually in the car cabin but close enough. Write down the ones you like and go home and do research on them. I'm into audio period, but I can't afford the speakers nor amps I want so I setting for the great bang for buck stuff (I'd get some Mark Levinson stuff).

You can read reviews all day but you still will never know what a specific speaker will sound like unless you hear it in person. You have tubes. You know that they are "warmer" sounding compared the cap/resister/ect amps, pre-amps,receivers. Each speaker is made and built to play a certain genre better than others.

As for Wax (vynle records), I have 1000's of them myself so I know what you mean.

YzGyz

This is very true. I will probably wind up going to listen to some when I have a chance.

As far as home audio goes, check out audiogon and consider buying things used. Audiophiles get the upgrade itch constantly and they take excellent care of their things, so you'll be getting a killer deal. My amp and cd player were purchased on there for roughly 50% retail and they were practically brand new. Since I got a tube amp, I had plenty of money left to get upgraded tubes for it. I even went for display model speakers of the ones I wanted and shaved about 25% off their price -- and didn't have to worry about breaking them in! I made my own bi-wired speaker cables for about $60 (when ones of this quality from a brand name would cost hundreds).

It's taken me a few years to get things how I want them, but I got a $15000 system for under $7000 total by buying used and being patient haha.

ChaseZ · 05-20-2016, 03:57 PM

That is my opinion of the GPS. My iPhone will be connected to the system already so have no use for a standalone antenna. Not a worthwhile upgrade in my case either.

Those are the Polks I was thinking about as well. I believe there is a version one step up from them too. Unfortunately I haven't found them on display locally to give my ear to, but I think I'm willing to roll the dice in this case. It's not like they are thousands of dollars.

Where that single pair of towers at home would reflect off the walls behind you, in car audio I've always treated it as though speakers firing directly at each other will create a fuller soundstage. In the 370's case the 6.5s sit low in the door and the centre console is raised, impeding this to a large degree. So on that line of thinking the rear 3.5s given their placement should accomplish that, albeit within their limitations.

If I could replicate the sound I get solely from my Paradigm Prestige 55c center channel in the car I'd be a very happy camper. That's not going to happen though; especially when I am looking at an entire system that costs less than that one speaker!

That's my thinking anyhow. As with anything your mileage may vary. Just because it seems logical to me certainly does not prove it to be the best response. Keeping in mind of course I am not trying to create an audiophile quality system or building for soundoffs. I just want something as tight and clean as I can get, again given the limitations of what Nissan gave us to work with - which is the real caveat here.

I have no vinyl collection, or even a CD player for that matter. NAD receiver is fed solely by a Mac Mini. A turntable would be a lovely addition down the road. Too many other things need attention long before that happens however.

If you are able to hear those Polks in person before purchasing I'd be very interested in your thoughts.

avantcrap · 05-20-2016, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseZ

That is my opinion of the GPS. My iPhone will be connected to the system already so have no use for a standalone antenna. Not a worthwhile upgrade in my case either.

Those are the Polks I was thinking about as well. I believe there is a version one step up from them too. Unfortunately I haven't found them on display locally to give my ear to, but I think I'm willing to roll the dice in this case. It's not like they are thousands of dollars.

Where that single pair of towers at home would reflect off the walls behind you, in car audio I've always treated it as though speakers firing directly at each other will create a fuller soundstage. In the 370's case the 6.5s sit low in the door and the centre console is raised, impeding this to a large degree. So on that line of thinking the rear 3.5s given their placement should accomplish that, albeit within their limitations.

If I could replicate the sound I get solely from my Paradigm Prestige 55c center channel in the car I'd be a very happy camper. That's not going to happen though; especially when I am looking at an entire system that costs less than that one speaker!

That's my thinking anyhow. As with anything your mileage may vary. Just because it seems logical to me certainly does not prove it to be the best response. Keeping in mind of course I am not trying to create an audiophile quality system or building for soundoffs. I just want something as tight and clean as I can get, again given the limitations of what Nissan gave us to work with - which is the real caveat here.

I have no vinyl collection, or even a CD player for that matter. NAD receiver is fed solely by a Mac Mini. A turntable would be a lovely addition down the road. Too many other things need attention long before that happens however.

If you are able to hear those Polks in person before purchasing I'd be very interested in your thoughts.

If they are on display at the shop near me, I will let you know!

ChaseZ · 05-20-2016, 04:02 PM

One thought I just had along these lines was if anyone knows if some 4" 2-ways can be massaged into the rear 3.5" opening. I haven't had the panels off so aren't aware of what sort of limitations there are.

avantcrap · 05-21-2016, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseZ

One thought I just had along these lines was if anyone knows if some 4" 2-ways can be massaged into the rear 3.5" opening. I haven't had the panels off so aren't aware of what sort of limitations there are.

I read somewhere that with an adapter you can get 4" back there, but I would take that question to an audio installation shop tbh.

ChaseZ · 05-30-2016, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avantcrap

I read somewhere that with an adapter you can get 4" back there, but I would take that question to an audio installation shop tbh.

I could have pulled the trim to find out but took the easy way out. I ordered a set of JL 3.5s which are supposed to be rather tasty for what they are.

I also upgraded to the Polk MM6501 instead. Figured there are basically two speakers in the system I'd better get the most out of them.

While I was at it decided on a pair of 8" Infinity Reference subs after seeing some of the very clean and discreet installs in here that done take up any room whatsoever. With the subs being right behind the strut bar in the floor. Each one only needs .3' so I should be able to make a nice tight sealed enclosure for them.

Ended up with the Pioneer SPH-DA120 as a head unit. The sale was off on the 4100nex, and this was the original style I was looking at anyways.

Now since I'll have subs I'll need amps. Scored a soaking deal on a Pheonix Gold mono sub amp, now just need to find something for the rest. With the full Motordyne exhaust I'm going to need a few extra db if I want to hear music other than exhaust note anyways

Edit: got a good deal on an Alpine 5 channel so I'll run the system off of just the one amp.

avantcrap · 05-31-2016, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseZ

I could have pulled the trim to find out but took the easy way out. I ordered a set of JL 3.5s which are supposed to be rather tasty for what they are.

I also upgraded to the Polk MM6501 instead. Figured there are basically two speakers in the system I'd better get the most out of them.

While I was at it decided on a pair of 8" Infinity Reference subs after seeing some of the very clean and discreet installs in here that done take up any room whatsoever. With the subs being right behind the strut bar in the floor. Each one only needs .3' so I should be able to make a nice tight sealed enclosure for them.

Ended up with the Pioneer SPH-DA120 as a head unit. The sale was off on the 4100nex, and this was the original style I was looking at anyways.

Now since I'll have subs I'll need amps. Scored a soaking deal on a Pheonix Gold mono sub amp, now just need to find something for the rest. With the full Motordyne exhaust I'm going to need a few extra db if I want to hear music other than exhaust note anyways

Edit: got a good deal on an Alpine 5 channel so I'll run the system off of just the one amp.

Sounds like it'll end up being a pretty killer system! You'll gave to let us know how it all turns out! Also, please feel free to post pictures of your sub enclosures once you've got them done! I am curious to see how they turn out.

05-20-2016, 01:09 AM	#1 (permalink)
avantcrap Base Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: atlanta area Posts: 224 Drives: 2013 370z Rep Power: 11	Audio System Suggestions? Hello All, I upgraded my stock HU last year for a Pioneer AVH-4100NEX since I wanted carplay integration (it's been awesome for me, since I like being able to connect my phone for music & GPS if needed). Anyway, I've been really wanting to upgrade my speakers as well, but I'm not sure what to go for. I'd prefer something tried and true with the community to working well in the smaller cabin of the Z, but also something a bit more refined sound-wise since I listen to a lot of Jazz. Ask me these questions when talking about home HIFI equipment and I could rattle off gear no problem, but with car audio it's a whole different ball game. Polk audio makes decent budget speakers in the home setting, but not sure about their quality of car speakers. I'm looking for middle of the road speakers. I'm not looking to drop thousands on speakers for my car, but don't want to go through the trouble of getting new ones and installing if there will be negligible difference compared to my current ones. My car has bose speakers (it was non-nav originally, if that helps) and part of me wonders if they are really bose speakers or if the bose logo was just stuck on them to trick everyone. Bose isn't really great anyway with their speaker quality (someone is going to flame me for that statement probably). I've gone back and forth about adding rear speakers and know there are mixed reviews with whether or not to get them, but if it helps with recommendations, I am NOT planning on getting a sub in the cargo area. I actually utilize the cargo area to store things fairly often and do not want to lose my spare either. Anyway, anyone with some insight or suggestions, feel free to post. Thanks everyone!

05-20-2016, 02:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
ChaseZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2016 Location: Calgary Posts: 3,799 Drives: 16 370z Rep Power: 94683	I'm going through the same set of decisions as you right now. And even that 4100NEX is one of three head units I've narrowed it down to, not least because it is on for a very good sale price right now. I'm glad to hear you like it, CarPlay included as there are very mixed reviews on it. It sounds like we share thoughts on home audio as well. I've got NAD, Klipsch, Paradigm and some Polk running there. As to car speakers I think I've narrowed it down the Polk components. For 6.5" speakers they seem to have about the greatest dynamic range available in the mid level price point. For $300 or so I think they will be a good purchase, with tweeters and crossovers. For the low end they cut off around 30hz which is substantially lower than most others I've seen in that range. By all accounts they are just as clean as punchy as the affordable Polk home audio cousins that you are familiar with. Im not interested in even small subs, or the space they would take up. I've noticed there are many here that dismiss the rear 3.5s in our cars, however I think they will fill the soundstage gaps that are left by only having the door speakers up front so I'm going to run them as well. Last edited by ChaseZ; 05-20-2016 at 03:41 PM.

05-20-2016, 11:11 AM	#5 (permalink)
YzGyz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Houston Posts: 1,449 Drives: 2010 Nismo Rep Power: 63	Best bet is to go to a nice and big car audio place and listen. Heck, visit a few and just listen to what they have on display and hooked up. It wont translate directly to being actually in the car cabin but close enough. Write down the ones you like and go home and do research on them. I'm into audio period, but I can't afford the speakers nor amps I want so I setting for the great bang for buck stuff (I'd get some Mark Levinson stuff). You can read reviews all day but you still will never know what a specific speaker will sound like unless you hear it in person. You have tubes. You know that they are "warmer" sounding compared the cap/resister/ect amps, pre-amps,receivers. Each speaker is made and built to play a certain genre better than others. As for Wax (vynle records), I have 1000's of them myself so I know what you mean. YzGyz __________________ http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...gyzs-turn.html YzGyz

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05-20-2016, 03:24 AM	#4 (permalink)
avantcrap Base Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: atlanta area Posts: 224 Drives: 2013 370z Rep Power: 11	My bad, It looks like crutchfield was suggesting the incorrect size for the door speakers. The correct size is 6.5" I found a set: DB6501 that seems to get good reviews. For the 3.5": DB351 It's all less than $200 plus wiring and installation cost which will probably run a good bit more than that, considering the rears are kind of labor intensive from what I've heard.

05-20-2016, 03:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
ChaseZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2016 Location: Calgary Posts: 3,799 Drives: 16 370z Rep Power: 94683	That is my opinion of the GPS. My iPhone will be connected to the system already so have no use for a standalone antenna. Not a worthwhile upgrade in my case either. Those are the Polks I was thinking about as well. I believe there is a version one step up from them too. Unfortunately I haven't found them on display locally to give my ear to, but I think I'm willing to roll the dice in this case. It's not like they are thousands of dollars. Where that single pair of towers at home would reflect off the walls behind you, in car audio I've always treated it as though speakers firing directly at each other will create a fuller soundstage. In the 370's case the 6.5s sit low in the door and the centre console is raised, impeding this to a large degree. So on that line of thinking the rear 3.5s given their placement should accomplish that, albeit within their limitations. If I could replicate the sound I get solely from my Paradigm Prestige 55c center channel in the car I'd be a very happy camper. That's not going to happen though; especially when I am looking at an entire system that costs less than that one speaker! That's my thinking anyhow. As with anything your mileage may vary. Just because it seems logical to me certainly does not prove it to be the best response. Keeping in mind of course I am not trying to create an audiophile quality system or building for soundoffs. I just want something as tight and clean as I can get, again given the limitations of what Nissan gave us to work with - which is the real caveat here. I have no vinyl collection, or even a CD player for that matter. NAD receiver is fed solely by a Mac Mini. A turntable would be a lovely addition down the road. Too many other things need attention long before that happens however. If you are able to hear those Polks in person before purchasing I'd be very interested in your thoughts.

05-20-2016, 04:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
ChaseZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2016 Location: Calgary Posts: 3,799 Drives: 16 370z Rep Power: 94683	One thought I just had along these lines was if anyone knows if some 4" 2-ways can be massaged into the rear 3.5" opening. I haven't had the panels off so aren't aware of what sort of limitations there are.