Thank you to Chris Karl and Z1 Motorsports

LennyZCSD · 02-07-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

You may have read the "Bitch reports" but I think you missed the main point.

No one is this thread ever implied that staging a major convention is easy but that wasn't the point and certainly not the point now...the point now is simply that there IS no rational defense for anyone to have to wait months or years to get stupid trophy from a stupid car show...NONE (even if you bold your defense).

The most rational excuses for ZCCA taking that long is either...

1)ZCCA doesn't give a s**t, or

2) ZCCA is incompetent.

I suspect it's equal measures of both 1 and 2.

Let me put it another way: In the amount of time people have been waiting for trophies an organization and trophy business could have designed the trophies from scratch, produced them all (including engraving the name of the winner given that it was done weeks/months post event) and gotten them delivered. It just doesn't take six or seven or eighteen months or more to get the job done.

I can't imagine any rational reason to explain why convention car show winners are waiting for months after the event to get their trophies and to have it happen two conventions in a row is truly beyond comprehension - two conventions in a row indicates some very serious systemic problems at ZCCA.

So, what I am saying is, get involved and straighten things out..
Like I say it's easy to complain,, I am guilty of this myself but I do get involved, for 7 years I was Newsletter Editor and or President for my club, one year I did both.. .. I am now the Chairman for Zcon 2014,,, you wanna help me?? You can handle anything you want..

Robert_Nash · 02-07-2012, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LennyZCSD

So, what I am saying is, get involved and straighten things out..
Like I say it's easy to complain,, I am guilty of this myself but I do get involved, for 7 years I was Newsletter Editor and or President for my club, one year I did both.. .. I am now the Chairman for Zcon 2014,,, you wanna help me?? You can handle anything you want..

Lenny (I'm assuming that's your name

),

First of all, good luck with 2014...I truly hope it's successful for you.

No, I don't want to help with the 2014 convention...I will never again involve myself with or attend an ZCCA event.

I've been involved and I am involved but never again with ZCCA.

HKYStormFront · 02-07-2012, 02:53 PM

yea i know of a local club that used to be a ZCCA member but dropped it when the club went on hiatus for a while. now that it is back together they applied for membership back into the ZCCA but they wanted the club to pay all their past dues to join again.

Robert_Nash · 02-07-2012, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKYStormFront

yea i know of a local club that used to be a ZCCA member but dropped it when the club went on hiatus for a while. now that it is back together they applied for membership back into the ZCCA but they wanted the club to pay all their past dues to join again.

That's funny...the local club here in Nashville had been a ZCCA club, let their membership in ZCCA drop and then "re-joined" ZCCA in preparation for the 2010 Convention - I don't recall us being asked to pay "past dues"!

HKYStormFront · 02-07-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

That's funny...the local club here in Nashville had been a ZCCA club, let their membership in ZCCA drop and then "re-joined" ZCCA in preparation for the 2010 Convention - I don't recall us being asked to pay "past dues"!

*cough, double standards, cough*

zinistr · 02-09-2012, 01:24 PM

FYI - I've been involved as the director of the ZCCA since 2008 and at no time has anyone at the ZCCA ever requested "back dues" to be paid from any club.

We manage memberships (new and renewals) per our by-laws and they're pretty clear.

Here are the ZCCA by-laws which spell out membership requirements and dues: http://www.zcca.org/downloads/ZCCA_B...%2012_2005.pdf

Chris Karl
ZCCA

Robert_Nash · 02-09-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinistr

FYI - I've been involved as the director of the ZCCA since 2008 and at no time has anyone at the ZCCA ever requested "back dues" to be paid from any club.

We manage memberships (new and renewals) per our by-laws and they're pretty clear.

Here are the ZCCA by-laws which spell out membership requirements and dues...

Chris Karl
ZCCA

By-laws can be great if they are actually followed but since this is your assertion vs HKYStormFront I'd put my money on HKY.

It's curious how you are silent on the trophy fiasco that has apparently occurred two conventions in a row...perhaps you need to put something in ZCCA's by-laws that require all votes to be counted the day of the car show AND actually have awards available to hand out at the awards banquet.

LennyZCSD · 02-10-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

By-laws can be great if they are actually followed but since this is your assertion vs HKYStormFront I'd put my money on HKY.

It's curious how you are silent on the trophy fiasco that has apparently occurred two conventions in a row...perhaps you need to put something in ZCCA's by-laws that require all votes to be counted the day of the car show AND actually have awards available to hand out at the awards banquet.

Robert the ZCCA only ran the Nashville convention, all other issues are the responsibility of the local Zclub and until you've actually put on a convention and find out how much work they are and how you have to rely on outside vendors you need to back up a bit..

Robert_Nash · 02-10-2012, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LennyZCSD

Robert the ZCCA only ran the Nashville convention, all other issues are the responsibility of the local Zclub and until you've actually put on a convention and find out how much work they are and how you have to rely on outside vendors you need to back up a bit..

No, they did not just "run" the convention in Nashville - I'm guessing that you haven't read the entire thread (understandable given its length) or you would know that there was no "local club" involved in 2010 because my (Middle Tennessee Z Club) told ZCCA over a year ahead of time that MTZC could not and would not host the convention. However, ZCCA dictated that the convention would be in Nashville anyway that makes ZCCA is wholly responsible for what went right AND what went wrong in 2010.

I've been the chairman of quite a few conventions including major narional conventions for various groups I belong to and I do know what it takes...I also know things can go wrong...I also know that when things go wrong you don't just make excuses and blame others; you take responsibility for them and then you fix the damn problem. With regards to Nashville, ZCCA has never taken responsibility and insted blamed and insulted MTZC and and then took months to get the trophies out.

I don't know what happened at Savannah but at Nashville they didn't count the votes and they also didn't have trophies at the banquet except for a few)...if I recall correctly they only handed out three or four trophies at the banquet. It's just my opinion but IMAHO there simply is no excuse for not counting votes at a car show...whatever it takes to get them counted and tallied YOU DO IT...PERIOD. I don't know if vote counting was an issue in Savannah but what is pretty claer now is that once again, trophies (or at least far from all of them) weren't there and people didn't get their trophies until months post event.

This trophy fiasco happening once is a problem...it happen two conventions in a row is beyond any excuse I can imagine. People spend a hell of a lot of money, time, effort (not to mention vacaton time) to go to these ZCCA conventiosn and prepare their cars and put them in the show...finding out the results and getting their trophies at the awards banquet is the absolute least that ZCCA can do.

As I said, I'll never again attend a ZCCA convention - there are many Z events as good or better and in some cases larger available for people to go to (not the least of which is ZAttack, ZDayZ and Z1 ZNationals, Branson ZFest and others)...I attend all of these excellent events and I suggest others do the same and and forget ZCCA and the "convention".

zinistr · 02-10-2012, 10:29 PM

Bob,

I worked hand in hand with a couple Middle TN members who were able to lend a hand (i.e. Jesse Larrison) throughout the planning and execution of the 2010 event. Nissan asked us to put the event on in Nashville for a very specific reason - we elected to handle it ourselves as Middle TN wasn't (to your statement) ready to do so just yet.

Your desire not to attend future events is noted, unfortunate, but at the same time fine with me, as I feel your toxic manner towards issues that arise doesn't represent the community that I and others (i.e. Bryan with ZDayZ...one regional event that you mentioned) try to instill in Z events.

At no time did I or anyone on the ZCCA committee blame the Middle TN group for the trophy issue. It was a mistake which was admitted to at the event and afterward. It's time to stop spreading false rumors, move on....or get involved to impact positive change for future events. I've shared my phone number numerous times in case you'd like to get away from your keyboard and start acting a true concerned enthusiast trying to help improve the quality of the ZCON event.

As Lenny aptly pointed out, you haven't been on a single ZCON committee and therefore cannot understand how to run a 6-day Z event requiring 12 months of planning...especially one which occurs with widely different venues year-to-year, in different regions of North America each year, and gets executed by a different committee with attendees from multiple countries.

No level of ranting will ever put you on equal playing field with the teams of volunteers that have donated their time over the past 24 years to keep the ZCON event going. It's a bit disrespectful to everyone who works to put these events on to try and convince folks that you can do it better from behind a desk without ever having participated on a ZCON committee.

I have a pretty full life with a family and career let alone my involvement with the ZCCA which involves correspondence with thousands of Z enthusiasts per year via phone, email, and in person participation at a variety of events across the country. If you'd care to get me to "weigh in" on something I may have missed in course of living my life, try calling me...you've had the number for 2+ years.

Chris
440-343-1664

Robert_Nash · 02-11-2012, 03:19 AM

Chris,

I've had your number and I have your number and no, I don't want or need to to call you. There is nothing I need to hear and nothing you need to say that can't (or shouldn't be) available for everyone to read.

For two years you've been beating this drum about how hard it is to put on a convention...yes...it's hard and I've never once said otherwise; it's hard just like putting on any other major convention is hard; just because someone hasn't chaired a ZCON doesn't mean they don't know what putting on a major convention entails.

As to your (and everybody else) working a job and volunteering to help...that's how most people do it;we work and we do this stuff in our spare time.

I never said you blamed MTZC specifically for the trophy fiasco but you did blame the 2010 problems in general on us (email to me dated 09/3010) because we didn't "come together" to host the eovent - if you don't think that was a blaming of and insult to MTZC then I invite you to re-read Randy's (current-co President of MTCZ) email response to you.

You can say anything you want...you can keep spinning the trophy problem anyway you want but there is no excuse for making people wait for six months (and in some cases much longer) to get their trophies; to have it happen two conventions in a row indicates a major systemic problem.

If you don't like threads like this then FIX THE PROBLEMS and you won't have threads like this...all it would have taken for this thread to have remained buried and gathering dust would have been for the trophies for the 2011 convention to have been handed out at the convention; that this fiasco happened again isn't my fault.

As for me being toxic; what's toxic is that the problems noted in 2010 happened in the first place and then were obviously not fixed in 2011. You can call my remarks toxic...you can dislike what I (and others) have said in this thread but I've said nothing that is untrue; your discomfort with what I've said is irrelevant.

Zcon2011 · 03-06-2012, 02:26 PM

Let me say this so everyone understands it as fact. The only failure within Zcon 2011 was mine, and mine alone. I made a fundamental mistake, and I accept full responsibility for it-don't put anyone in your crosshairs over the issues with 2011 but me.

William Stokes
Chairman, 24th Annual ZCCA International Convention.
ZCCA Member

Robert_Nash · 03-06-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zcon2011

Let me say this so everyone understands it as fact. The only failure within Zcon 2011 was mine, and mine alone. I made a fundamental mistake, and I accept full responsibility for it-don't put anyone in your crosshairs over the issues with 2011 but me.

William Stokes
Chairman, 24th Annual ZCCA International Convention.
ZCCA Member

Respectfully, William;

It's pretty noble of you to fall on your sword but I somehow doubt that whatever went wrong is "your fault and your fault alone'.

I'm sure you made mistakes but I doubt you were the only one who made them and whatever responsibility may be yours at least some must also belong to the sanctioning body...ZCCA Conventions (which is how they are labeled) aren't called that by accident...ZCCA will generally get the credit for what goes right and by the same token, they should get the blame for what doesn't.

In any case, let's hope 2012 goes better for those who attend.

Take care!

Mike · 03-06-2012, 08:20 PM

William,
From what I have heard, you went well above and beyond what should have been expected of you. You are definitely a stand up character.

Robert_Nash · 03-06-2012, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

William,
From what I have heard, you went well above and beyond what should have been expected of you. You are definitely a stand up character.

Amen...well said.

02-07-2012, 02:53 PM	#78 (permalink)
HKYStormFront A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Greer, SC Posts: 14,954 Drives: 06 Frontier SE 6spd Rep Power: 52	yea i know of a local club that used to be a ZCCA member but dropped it when the club went on hiatus for a while. now that it is back together they applied for membership back into the ZCCA but they wanted the club to pay all their past dues to join again. __________________ Patrick // 06 Frontier 6spd Nismosis // Mods: Uprev Tuned @ Z1 Motorsports: 257whp & 292 ft lbs 09 Pontiac G8 GXP // M6 // Sunroof // Tint... For now

02-09-2012, 01:24 PM	#81 (permalink)
zinistr Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chardon, Ohio Posts: 127 Drives: 2009 Nismo - Silver Rep Power: 16	FYI - I've been involved as the director of the ZCCA since 2008 and at no time has anyone at the ZCCA ever requested "back dues" to be paid from any club. We manage memberships (new and renewals) per our by-laws and they're pretty clear. Here are the ZCCA by-laws which spell out membership requirements and dues: http://www.zcca.org/downloads/ZCCA_B...%2012_2005.pdf Chris Karl ZCCA __________________ 1970 Datsun 240z (HLS #201) & '71 240z "Zuns Z" 1991 300zx TT 'ZINISTR' & '93 300zx Vert TT "MASTR" 1994 300zx Vert 'BREEZZY' & 1995 300zx Z32 Coupe 2009 NISMO Edition 370Z, Silver #196

02-10-2012, 10:29 PM	#85 (permalink)
zinistr Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chardon, Ohio Posts: 127 Drives: 2009 Nismo - Silver Rep Power: 16	Bob, I worked hand in hand with a couple Middle TN members who were able to lend a hand (i.e. Jesse Larrison) throughout the planning and execution of the 2010 event. Nissan asked us to put the event on in Nashville for a very specific reason - we elected to handle it ourselves as Middle TN wasn't (to your statement) ready to do so just yet. Your desire not to attend future events is noted, unfortunate, but at the same time fine with me, as I feel your toxic manner towards issues that arise doesn't represent the community that I and others (i.e. Bryan with ZDayZ...one regional event that you mentioned) try to instill in Z events. At no time did I or anyone on the ZCCA committee blame the Middle TN group for the trophy issue. It was a mistake which was admitted to at the event and afterward. It's time to stop spreading false rumors, move on....or get involved to impact positive change for future events. I've shared my phone number numerous times in case you'd like to get away from your keyboard and start acting a true concerned enthusiast trying to help improve the quality of the ZCON event. As Lenny aptly pointed out, you haven't been on a single ZCON committee and therefore cannot understand how to run a 6-day Z event requiring 12 months of planning...especially one which occurs with widely different venues year-to-year, in different regions of North America each year, and gets executed by a different committee with attendees from multiple countries. No level of ranting will ever put you on equal playing field with the teams of volunteers that have donated their time over the past 24 years to keep the ZCON event going. It's a bit disrespectful to everyone who works to put these events on to try and convince folks that you can do it better from behind a desk without ever having participated on a ZCON committee. I have a pretty full life with a family and career let alone my involvement with the ZCCA which involves correspondence with thousands of Z enthusiasts per year via phone, email, and in person participation at a variety of events across the country. If you'd care to get me to "weigh in" on something I may have missed in course of living my life, try calling me...you've had the number for 2+ years. Chris 440-343-1664 __________________ 1970 Datsun 240z (HLS #201) & '71 240z "Zuns Z" 1991 300zx TT 'ZINISTR' & '93 300zx Vert TT "MASTR" 1994 300zx Vert 'BREEZZY' & 1995 300zx Z32 Coupe 2009 NISMO Edition 370Z, Silver #196

02-11-2012, 03:19 AM	#86 (permalink)
Robert_Nash Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Middle TN/Savannah GA Posts: 762 Drives: '14 Q60IPL/'14Armada Rep Power: 17	Chris, I've had your number and I have your number and no, I don't want or need to to call you. There is nothing I need to hear and nothing you need to say that can't (or shouldn't be) available for everyone to read. For two years you've been beating this drum about how hard it is to put on a convention...yes...it's hard and I've never once said otherwise; it's hard just like putting on any other major convention is hard; just because someone hasn't chaired a ZCON doesn't mean they don't know what putting on a major convention entails. As to your (and everybody else) working a job and volunteering to help...that's how most people do it;we work and we do this stuff in our spare time. I never said you blamed MTZC specifically for the trophy fiasco but you did blame the 2010 problems in general on us (email to me dated 09/3010) because we didn't "come together" to host the eovent - if you don't think that was a blaming of and insult to MTZC then I invite you to re-read Randy's (current-co President of MTCZ) email response to you. You can say anything you want...you can keep spinning the trophy problem anyway you want but there is no excuse for making people wait for six months (and in some cases much longer) to get their trophies; to have it happen two conventions in a row indicates a major systemic problem. If you don't like threads like this then FIX THE PROBLEMS and you won't have threads like this...all it would have taken for this thread to have remained buried and gathering dust would have been for the trophies for the 2011 convention to have been handed out at the convention; that this fiasco happened again isn't my fault. As for me being toxic; what's toxic is that the problems noted in 2010 happened in the first place and then were obviously not fixed in 2011. You can call my remarks toxic...you can dislike what I (and others) have said in this thread but I've said nothing that is untrue; your discomfort with what I've said is irrelevant. __________________ Robert -My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama - Last edited by Robert_Nash; 02-11-2012 at 05:01 PM.

03-06-2012, 02:26 PM	#87 (permalink)
Zcon2011 Base Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Savannah, Ga. Posts: 22 Drives: Spl311, S30,S130 Z32 Rep Power: 15	Let me say this so everyone understands it as fact. The only failure within Zcon 2011 was mine, and mine alone. I made a fundamental mistake, and I accept full responsibility for it-don't put anyone in your crosshairs over the issues with 2011 but me. William Stokes Chairman, 24th Annual ZCCA International Convention. ZCCA Member Last edited by Zcon2011; 03-06-2012 at 03:11 PM.

03-06-2012, 08:20 PM	#89 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2186	William, From what I have heard, you went well above and beyond what should have been expected of you. You are definitely a stand up character. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

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