Quick question with spacers

ntn007us

This is a really stupid question, but with these hub-centric spacers, do the center-hub lips face inwards or outwards before I attempt the install? And how do the extended wheel lugs that come with the spacers fit; through the back or the front? I'm just a bit clueless with the visualization at the moment.

I'm sure it will be very clear when I'm in front of the wheel.

Thanks

OMGWTFBBQ

DIY: ** Rear 20mm stud replacement spacers

http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...r-install.html

Does that help?

ntn007us

Many thanks! I see products that quote a center bore of 66mm, 66.1 and 66.2. Are they all pretty much the same and marketing guy just left off the decimals?

Cheers,

ntn007us

I see spacers on Ebay with 67.1mm center bore that say they'll fit the 370z. Would that incorrect?

fritz

I have pontificated upon this elsewhere but maybe not so comprehensively!

"Stud Centric" or "Bolt Centric" applied to car wheels are both salesmen's guff for the bill of goods you'll get.

Car wheels must be Hub Centric. The Nissan hub is 66.0 (minus nothing and plus a thou or so) mm and the wheels are 66.1mm for a "perfect fit" (The wheels seem a mite tight on the hub).......Nissan did not do that so some nitwit could b/s you.

Stick to that and you'll have no balance problems.

Offer the spacers up to the wheels. They should be a snug fit with no lateral play at all
and maybe just a bit stiff to turn smoothly. (NOT a snug fit on the studs but the hub).

Bolt in spacers (even name ones) are often a sloppy fit and must be centred accurately before the spacer bolts are tightened. "No need for that" ?...Like fun.

Perfect fit spigot rings can do the job too. If plastic they must emphatically never have wheels tightened or loosened on the ground (see later).

[One may even need a shim wrapped around the hub. (Note: M-B sold some new vehicles with very sloppily centered wheels: I believe the German Police got a recall but common folk did not. A 13 thou shim wrapped at each hub centre gives revolutionary peace at high speeds].

Start with a proper wheel on a proper hub and, by fitting 2nd class spacers, you build in
wheel and tire ovality for which you will blame the wheel balancer!
Ride comfort goes to pot, suspension/steering wears quicker, emergency braking is unsure, and anything half fast or illegal might bring on the shakes.

And another thing: tighten the wheels off the ground: final torque with the tire just touching the ground and not firmly planted. Be fussy and save yourself drama.

"On car balancing" sounds hot. It is a crude way round some, but not all, of this drama...until the wheel is removed for any reason, like a brake check.

Rely on no-one other than you or a known decent mechanic...unlikely found at a wheel installers "shifting product" on commission....but possible.

Fritz.

fritz

I have pontificated upon this elsewhere but maybe not so comprehensively!

"Stud Centric" or "Bolt Centric" applied to car wheels are both salesmen's guff for the bill of goods you'll get.

Car wheels must be Hub Centric. The Nissan hub is 66.0 (minus nothing and plus a thou or so) mm and the wheels are 66.1mm for a "perfect fit" (The wheels seem a mite tight on the hub).......Nissan did not do that so some nitwit could b/s you.

Stick to that and you'll have no balance problems.

Offer the spacers up to the wheels. They should be a snug fit with no lateral play at all
and maybe just a bit stiff to turn smoothly. (NOT a snug fit on the studs but the hub).

Bolt in spacers (even name ones) are often a sloppy fit and must be centred accurately before the spacer bolts are tightened. "No need for that" ?...Like fun.

Perfect fit spigot rings can do the job too. If plastic they must emphatically never have wheels tightened or loosened on the ground (see later).

[One may even need a shim wrapped around the hub. (Note: M-B sold some new vehicles with very sloppily centered wheels: I believe the German Police got a recall but common folk did not. A 13 thou shim wrapped at each hub centre gives revolutionary peace at high speeds].

Start with a proper wheel on a proper hub and, by fitting 2nd class spacers, you build in
wheel and tire ovality for which you will blame the wheel balancer!
Ride comfort goes to pot, suspension/steering wears quicker, emergency braking is unsure, and anything half fast or illegal might bring on the shakes.

And another thing: tighten the wheels off the ground: final torque with the tire just touching the ground and not firmly planted. Be fussy and save yourself drama.

"On car balancing" sounds hot. It is a crude way round some, but not all, of this drama...until the wheel is removed for any reason, like a brake check.

Rely on no-one other than you or a known decent mechanic...unlikely found at a wheel installers "shifting product" on commission....but possible.

Fritz.

kenchan

fritz- the two types are hub-centric and lug-centric.

factory wheels are hub-centric and therefore uses the flat washer type lugs. this means that the hub keeps the wheel center, the lugs just keeps the wheels and hub together.

aftermarket wheels are usually lug-centric and therefore uses the tapered type lugs. this means the lugs hold the wheels center, not the hub. centering rings are used to aid the installation of the wheels to the hub. the rings are not required.

fritz

Hola kenchan! (Good and bad news)

I beg to disagree: If there's a hub with a centre and a wheel with a centre
use 'em. MOST alloy wheels use taper seat lug nuts and must have centering on the hubs...except trucks or show cars.

Holes in the hub (or spacer) to fit studs are a relative afterthought. Threading those holes is another afterthought and the threads on the studs are more "afterthoughts" and the taper seats in the wheels.....ditto....all of which give margins for compounded errors....further compoundable by the wheel manufacturer's own holes before adding the seats.
Now, let that lot onto the ground, even lightly, to tighten them (per many an owners maual) and you have guaranteed ovality.
Don't think the studs are "solid steel". They aren't. They are elastic enough to twist or bend.
No, Sir, I do not buy this Bolt Centric or Hub Centric "deal" on any aftermarket car wheel fixed on the car in any way (centerlockers apart).
...and I emphatically say "trust not the artist selling the wheels unless...etc".
Trucks with many bolts or studs, OK.

You may "get lucky", especially if you drive legally and never see a circuit.

Hub...and wheel....manufacturer(s) will use lathe centering and there's no likelyhood of them being off centre..even if there's a tea-break.
Example: you buy a set of good wheels (Rays? ...er....from Rays, not an "outfit") specifically for a 370Z and they'll give you 66.1 centres.....for a very good reason. Same for OE stock 350Z wheels with taperseat nuts.

Bolt in spacers ... warning again, may be a sloppy fit. The difference per
corner is set. That is 0.1mm......and not a loose multiple thereof.


Good news? When confronted with my immobilized car I was arming myself with a dremmel and other odd tools, while lying on my back, to undo the "thiefproof" bolts holding the lock...but checked this site...and there was kenchan's statement that they come out easily with a pair of pliers....So thanks a lot again, kenchan.

So there,
You have two bits of advice from two folk of equal enthusiasm and help
Take your choice...as long as neither of us are in the wheel and tire shifting biz !

Fritz

kenchan

hey fritz btw, your posts look like spam for some reason.

well, if you're saying that the plastic centering rings on some low-end lugcentric wheels are doing anything other than aiding the wheel installation to the car, that is a big misunderstanding. as you probably already know, plastic centering rings actually melt at high temps from braking. yet, the wheels do not vibrate or brake any studs as it is the lug centering the wheels.

hope this info is useful.

ntn007us

Thanks to all for the education! Cheers,

fritz

Pity about the double posting: it happens. (and may happen again as this post was rejected earlier for some reason.

More "Spam":
95% (that's very conservative!) of cars have hub-centric wheels. Taper seat nuts are
very common (even as OE on a 350Z) but it makes no difference. The hubs center the wheels, period.

Some heavier Toyotas tried it different: move to Toyota TSBs for the subsequent dramas...some (many?) of the dealers did not have the balancing kit !!

"Melting plastic spigot rings?" Quite so!!! Amateur racers would have spares. Once the plastic has done its job (wheel centering) the wheel is already bolted up and the lousy plastic ring can vaporize! It has done its job, to center before tightening.

Professionals would have metal spigot rings or the correct wheel/hub centers........
Tech inspections can outright reject wheels not hub centered, especially if spacered,,,,,, if they find them......

The abuse "problem" has become so endemic that some areas, in the EEC for example, have tried to ban wheel spacers altogether, which is grossly unfair to correctly engineered fitments......

One has to exceed posted limits (say 80 MPH) to really feel problems but a very experienced tester will know much sooner.

Metal spigot rings not available? Turn 'em up on a lathe...easy

Sorry about the "Spam" !

Fritz

kenchan

hi there, fritz! most higher end wheels come with either metal or composite rings.