new spacers and studs; now sterring wheel vibrates

BrandonSS · 03-21-2014, 10:08 AM

It was with a 3 lbs hammer yes lol but that's how everyone said to remove them. I did install them with a stack of washers just ask you described but one of them really fought me on the process and kept trying to angle up until the very end.

I checked the normal wheel bearing play and feel none.

The vibration is probably better described as a shimmy. I can feel and see it in the wheel as slow as 30mph.

wstar · 03-21-2014, 12:17 PM

So, just to recap: the shimmy was present both on the old tires and on new tires mounted+balanced on the same rims, right? Basically, if it's not a mechanical bearing/hub issue from the stud install, one would expect a front-end shimmy to be a tire/wheel problem (damage, mfg defect, bad balance (weights fell off?)), so this all seems very strange.

If the tires/wheels are fine, you might try having an alignment shop look at everything while doing a realignment. Usually a front-end shimmy is not actually an alignment problem, but they might notice that some bushing or ball-joint somewhere is worn out and causing it, or some nut on some adjuster has come loose, etc. But maybe have a second shop rebalance the wheels first? It's usually like $40 tops to rebalance them all. Look for one with a Road Force machine (which normally isn't necessary, but might catch more-subtle issues).

wstar · 03-21-2014, 12:21 PM

Another thought: how confident are you there's no physical issue with the spacers from a mfg defect? You could pull them off and measure all around them with a caliper to confirm uniform thickness. Or just try driving the exact same setup but with the spacers removed (assuming your wheels don't rub that way). There should be headroom in the lugs if you went to extended studs, probably.

In a similar vein (and sorry if I'm going over stuff you already know!): be sure the mating surfaces of everything involved are clean of dirt and rust buildup. The front face of the hub flange, both sides of the spacer, and the inside face of the wheel center. Use sandpaper or something similarly aggressive to clear out the rust, and then make sure it's cleaned after that to get sand particles off.

BrandonSS · 03-21-2014, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

So, just to recap: the shimmy was present both on the old tires and on new tires mounted+balanced on the same rims, right? Basically, if it's not a mechanical bearing/hub issue from the stud install, one would expect a front-end shimmy to be a tire/wheel problem (damage, mfg defect, bad balance (weights fell off?)), so this all seems very strange.

If the tires/wheels are fine, you might try having an alignment shop look at everything while doing a realignment. Usually a front-end shimmy is not actually an alignment problem, but they might notice that some bushing or ball-joint somewhere is worn out and causing it, or some nut on some adjuster has come loose, etc. But maybe have a second shop rebalance the wheels first? It's usually like $40 tops to rebalance them all. Look for one with a Road Force machine (which normally isn't necessary, but might catch more-subtle issues).

I did not have this problem prior to the slip on spacer install. I had 15mm bolt on spacers and there was no shimmy.

Old tires had the shimmy and I replaced them Tuesday with brand new tires (all around) and the shimmy still exists. It basically HAS to be something to do with the newer slip on spacers or the new longer studs. I just dont know how to identify which is wrong other than buying another set, perhaps H&R this time instead of the cheaper ichibas that I'm running now. Rear spacers are bolt on Z1s that were on the front.

I appreciate the detail and double checking you are suggesting! I will pull them off again this weekend and sand everything down, though I did wipe them down prior to installing. I havent had the car up to speed (anything over 40) in the past day since having the front up in the air and trying for the 4th time.

I'll try again and keep you posted. I dont have any means of checking thickness so maybe I'll go pick up my caliper set from my mothers garage (yes, I'm 31, a home owner, married, etc and I have yet to pick up ALL of my tools from her garage

).

Thanks!!

BrandonSS · 03-23-2014, 05:32 PM

Well I havent been over 50 yet but earlier before I got started the wheel was shimmying beginning at 30mph.

I pulled the passenger side wheel and spacer and installed a friends G35 wheel and took it for a drive. Didnt notice much shimmy at all so I inspected the spacer and found a tiny amount of "lip", just enough to feel with my finger, around the bolt holes where the wheel would be resting, perhaps manufacturing flaws. I sanded those down, reinstalled the spacer and then threw the G35 wheel on both fronts and found no shimmy up to 50.

From there I put the passenger wheel back on and left the g35 wheel on the driver side and took it for a spin to eliminate the possibility of it being the passenger wheel. All drove fine.

Lastly, I installed both of my k3 projekt wheels and took it for a drive up to 50-55... no noticeable shimmy.

Hopefully it was the tiny amount of burr or lip around the holes and where the wheel rested against causing the shimmy. I dont see how something so small such as burrs around the holes on the slip on spacer and mounting surface could cause it so I'm not very optimistic about this being completely cured. I'll know tomorrow once I get it out on the highway.

What a pain in the butt.

wstar · 03-24-2014, 12:08 AM

With those kinds of errors, it really doesn't take much to cause a problem. If you have a local machine shop (everyone does, you just have to find them!) they could probably double-check the spacer and plane them correctly without messing up the hub-centric lip.

BrandonSS · 03-24-2014, 10:59 AM

Drove it to work today and no steering wheel shimmy. Seems to be resolved. Crazy that a small lip on the holes as thick as a few hairs could cause a visible left and right shimmy on the steering wheel at low speeds.

03-21-2014, 12:17 PM	#62 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	So, just to recap: the shimmy was present both on the old tires and on new tires mounted+balanced on the same rims, right? Basically, if it's not a mechanical bearing/hub issue from the stud install, one would expect a front-end shimmy to be a tire/wheel problem (damage, mfg defect, bad balance (weights fell off?)), so this all seems very strange. If the tires/wheels are fine, you might try having an alignment shop look at everything while doing a realignment. Usually a front-end shimmy is not actually an alignment problem, but they might notice that some bushing or ball-joint somewhere is worn out and causing it, or some nut on some adjuster has come loose, etc. But maybe have a second shop rebalance the wheels first? It's usually like $40 tops to rebalance them all. Look for one with a Road Force machine (which normally isn't necessary, but might catch more-subtle issues). __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

03-21-2014, 12:21 PM	#63 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Another thought: how confident are you there's no physical issue with the spacers from a mfg defect? You could pull them off and measure all around them with a caliper to confirm uniform thickness. Or just try driving the exact same setup but with the spacers removed (assuming your wheels don't rub that way). There should be headroom in the lugs if you went to extended studs, probably. In a similar vein (and sorry if I'm going over stuff you already know!): be sure the mating surfaces of everything involved are clean of dirt and rust buildup. The front face of the hub flange, both sides of the spacer, and the inside face of the wheel center. Use sandpaper or something similarly aggressive to clear out the rust, and then make sure it's cleaned after that to get sand particles off. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 03-21-2014 at 12:24 PM.

03-24-2014, 12:08 AM	#66 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	With those kinds of errors, it really doesn't take much to cause a problem. If you have a local machine shop (everyone does, you just have to find them!) they could probably double-check the spacer and plane them correctly without messing up the hub-centric lip. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

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03-21-2014, 10:08 AM	#61 (permalink)
BrandonSS Track Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Indianapolis Age: 42 Posts: 644 Drives: 2009 370z T/S/techM6 Rep Power: 13	It was with a 3 lbs hammer yes lol but that's how everyone said to remove them. I did install them with a stack of washers just ask you described but one of them really fought me on the process and kept trying to angle up until the very end. I checked the normal wheel bearing play and feel none. The vibration is probably better described as a shimmy. I can feel and see it in the wheel as slow as 30mph.

03-23-2014, 05:32 PM	#65 (permalink)
BrandonSS Track Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Indianapolis Age: 42 Posts: 644 Drives: 2009 370z T/S/techM6 Rep Power: 13	Well I havent been over 50 yet but earlier before I got started the wheel was shimmying beginning at 30mph. I pulled the passenger side wheel and spacer and installed a friends G35 wheel and took it for a drive. Didnt notice much shimmy at all so I inspected the spacer and found a tiny amount of "lip", just enough to feel with my finger, around the bolt holes where the wheel would be resting, perhaps manufacturing flaws. I sanded those down, reinstalled the spacer and then threw the G35 wheel on both fronts and found no shimmy up to 50. From there I put the passenger wheel back on and left the g35 wheel on the driver side and took it for a spin to eliminate the possibility of it being the passenger wheel. All drove fine. Lastly, I installed both of my k3 projekt wheels and took it for a drive up to 50-55... no noticeable shimmy. Hopefully it was the tiny amount of burr or lip around the holes and where the wheel rested against causing the shimmy. I dont see how something so small such as burrs around the holes on the slip on spacer and mounting surface could cause it so I'm not very optimistic about this being completely cured. I'll know tomorrow once I get it out on the highway. What a pain in the butt.

03-24-2014, 10:59 AM	#67 (permalink)
BrandonSS Track Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Indianapolis Age: 42 Posts: 644 Drives: 2009 370z T/S/techM6 Rep Power: 13	Drove it to work today and no steering wheel shimmy. Seems to be resolved. Crazy that a small lip on the holes as thick as a few hairs could cause a visible left and right shimmy on the steering wheel at low speeds.