Say No to Fake Wheels...It Could Save Your Life

370Ztune · 03-10-2011, 01:25 PM

Hey guys, Weds just posted up this video that demonstrates yet another reason to say "no" to knock-off wheels.

As you can see, the real Weds wheel stood up to the stress test without major damage, while the fake was obliterated. Of course, some might consider the test to be a bit exaggerated as far as what kind of impact the wheel might see, but it does show the difference in quality and durability between the real and the fake.

As always, support innovation and quality by buying real products! It may even save you butt!!

-Kris

Waiz · 03-10-2011, 01:41 PM

Wow!

Good find, Volk and BBS should do same.

kenchan · 03-10-2011, 01:49 PM

yep, cheezo's like XXR's literally shatter vs bending upon impact from big enough pot holes. it's almost like they're made out of glass.

saber · 03-10-2011, 02:06 PM

What you get with some name brands is a very rigorous quality control. Forging or casting, buying wheels from Volk, Weds, etc. will ensure that the process has been inspected, is controllable, and is relatively defect free. The issue about "fake" wheels is that the quality control process present in the name brands sometimes isn't there. The wheels shatter because the casting process itself can lead to very weak wheels if done improperly. The material properties bear that out.

That, and stealing the IP of another company is just....ugh.

With that said, I'm just curious what 370ztune defines as 'Real Wheels'. I assume this is just a point against Varrstoen, Rota, and other knock-offs?

370Ztune · 03-10-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saber

What you get with some name brands is a very rigorous quality control. Forging or casting, buying wheels from Volk, Weds, etc. will ensure that the process has been inspected, is controllable, and is relatively defect free. The issue about "fake" wheels is that the quality control process present in the name brands sometimes isn't there. The wheels shatter because the casting process itself can lead to very weak wheels if done improperly. The material properties bear that out.

That, and stealing the IP of another company is just....ugh.

With that said, I'm just curious what 370ztune defines as 'Real Wheels'. I assume this is just a point against Varrstoen, Rota, and other knock-offs?

Haha, you could say that. Yes, we do define "knock-offs" as any design that's copied from another manufacturer, and strongly discourage the purchase of these products.

cheshirecat · 03-10-2011, 02:18 PM

You takes a risk.

TypeOne · 03-10-2011, 02:19 PM

Spreading around the web like wild fire... I've seen this video a few times already today.

Jordo! · 03-10-2011, 03:20 PM

What's next, a documentary on how Slick 50 protects pistons, demonstrated by placing them next to a belt sander?

SoCal 370Z · 03-10-2011, 03:26 PM

I don't understand why Phelan was given the voiceover for this video?

kenchan · 03-10-2011, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal 370Z

I don't understand why Phelan was given the voiceover for this video?

because he's a fake japanese?

SoCal 370Z · 03-10-2011, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

because he's a fake japanese?

Dammit...I knew it!!!

kenchan · 03-10-2011, 04:19 PM

btw, if you guys are looking to buy wheels made in japan, buy them very soon.... i have a feeling after most companies sell off their stock from FY2010, prices will jump up significantly. most japanese companies end their fiscal year in march, starts fresh 4/1.

ive already seen several musical instruments this month just pop up in price overnight by as much as 12-15%.

hahaha. i laugh because i knew this was coming and already bought my wheels for this year.

Jordo! · 03-10-2011, 04:31 PM

1. Claiming that buying a certain manufacturer's wheels could "save your life" is insulting -- it's a scare tactic.

Show me any evidence of a correlation between any particular brand of wheel and accidents or death.

2. "Knock off" is misleading. There are about half a dozen identical or nearly identical "mesh" wheels floating around by different sponsors on here, and they all appear to be of similar quality (e.g., similar weight, development methods, forged), though they are sold under different names. Who's copying whom?

3. The irony is, there are really only about a dozen or so different wheel styles anyway. They're wheels -- not rare pieces of art.

Sorry, but this kind of advertising turns me away as a consumer.

What I care about: how is it manufactured, what will it cost relative to similar other wheels (see point #3) and what do they weigh?

As to quality control, show me evidence of that. Show me the company policy of how many wheels get pulled off the assembly line at random and tested before the whole batch gets boxed up and sent off? No one here has that info, and if they do, by all means, show me that not this "save your life" video.

Is it the same for Volk and SSR? What about Weds? How much does it matter? What's the industry standard? Is there one?

As to the maufacturing process, the major advantage of forging is that -- in theory -- you can make an equally strong wheel at a lower weight than a similarly desgined cast wheel.

If weight is irrelevant, and it's all about bling, then just buy what you want/can afford. The odds of the wheel simply failing in normal or even track driving is incredilby unlikely.

Likewise, smash a curb hard enough -- you'll damage a forged wheel too, "real" or "fake".

Guess that's why many racing teams and autoxers like Rotas -- another "knock off" wheel company. They can get what they want at a competitive price.

That I can respond to -- not scare tactics.

phelan · 03-10-2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

(stuff)

Damn, stirring the pot much?

1. ken and SoCal may call me a JDM whore, but I agree that this video is purely a scare tactic. Wheels falling apart can happen to even the most highly regarded wheel manufacturers in the world. What matters is how the company designed and manufactured it. As long as a strict QC process was adhered to, and the wheel passed the necessary safety tests, I don't see the issue. Where you run into problems is if you buy replica wheels that are untested, and uncertified. At that point, you're on your own, and the chances you have a weak / problematic wheel increases.

tl;dr - Yes, this video was sensationalist media. Happens all the time. Ever try reading a tabloid?

2. Perhaps. Rays was established in 1973, Rota in 1977. Dunno when the TE37 was released, but my guess is Rays had a few years of their wheels being out there before Rota. But that's just speculation, and really, who the hell cares. At this point, it's common 'accepted knowledge' (true or not) that Volks are 'original'. Now in regards to mesh, etc., I dunno. Don't want to get into that argument right now.

3. Point taken, but as discussed in a similar thread where you took offense to JDM parts for some reason, to each their own. Let's not get into that.

Now then - as I'm an engineer, and a bored one at that, I thought I'd take a stab at your other concerns:
"What I care about: how is it manufactured, what will it cost relative to similar other wheels (see point #3) and what do they weigh?"

Okay. Fair enough. I'd go farther and say that anybody looking to buy a wheel should be interested in how it is manufactured, and what quality controls are in place to govern the manufacturing process.

"As to quality control, show me evidence of that. Show me the company policy of how many wheels get pulled off the assembly line at random and tested before the batch gets boxed up andsent off? No one here has that info, and if they do, by all means, show me that not this "sve your life" video.

Is it the same for Volk and SSR? What about Weds? How much does it matter? What's the industry standard? Is there one?"

Most if not all of the highly regarded companies - not just JDM, mind you - are inspected to meet requirements set forth by the manufacturer's government, or else they can't even be used on their home roads. Off the top of my head, for example, Volk rims, cast or forged, must meet JWL standards (Volk uses JWL+R type 2 for cast, JWL+R type 1 for forged).

Quote:

Tests carried out according to JWL (Japan Light Alloy Wheel) standards are based on hypothetical conditions of use for an aluminum alloy wheel, which set out minimum strength criteria. As the graph on the right shows, items in JWL+R (JWL + RAYS extensions) standards are based on far more rigorous safety criteria than JWL standards. Naturally, we do not rely solely on JWL test protocols. Taking account of actual running conditions, we have designed a 90-degree impact test in which a one-ton weight is dropped on wheels from height of 140 mm. After this, typically by 800,000 revolutions in a post-impact drum test, the wheel is checked to determine if rolling performance has been compromised.As well as these examinations, which test for the effects of the kinds of shock that are likely to occur in accidents, the comprehensive suite of JWL+R quality tests includes rigidity testing and even visual inspection of the wheel coating. Our JWL+R Spec 2 product standards for toughness are exceptional: some products have even withstood fatigue testing designed to destroy them. Some of our JWL+R product standards are set much higher than even the levels stipulated in German TUV specifications. For RAYS it is essential to have criteria that are able to assure strength if wheels are made lighter. To make sturdy wheels that meet TUV standards all you need to do is ignore mass and make the metal thicker. JWL+R Spec 2 supports the creation of wheels by using forging methods that enable amazing strength to go hand in hand with thin metal.

From SSR:

Quote:

In 1971 SSR released the first 3 piece wheel, the MK1. Aluminum wheels were in high demand and resulted in the creation of JWL (Japan Light Alloy Wheel) Certification in 1973. The Japanese Government incorporates this certification on aluminum wheels to improve quality and safety. JWL certification involves testing impact strength and endurance strength. SSR wheels are always put through JWL testing before they are used on the street or track. In 1981, a 3rd party statutory board the VIA (Vehicle Inspection Association) was created to verify JWL testing. Both the JWL and VIA logo are embossed into each and every SSR wheel representing dedication to quality control. SSR has always focused on manufacturing precise, lightweight, and strong wheels and will continue this tradition for years to come.

Now I may be wrong, but Europe has TUV standards that can also apply to wheels. In fact, didn't we all have a bit of fun about TUV for - oh never mind. One thing I need to look for is the acceptable failure rate for the certified wheels. That would be an interesting variable to get.

Now I did some digging, but some replica companies are not subject to these tests (not ALL! Some do still test! See this post regarding XXR), as typically their countries of manufacture aren't that stringent. So the buyer is taking the company at face value in regards to the manufacturing process, and the quality of the final product. Is the cost break worth it? I don't know. I think it's the buyer's decision to make, based on their comfort level, their knowledge of how hard they will push the car, and how much they are willing to spend.

"If weight is irrelevant, and it's all about bling, then just buy what you want/can afford. The odds of the wheel simply failing in normal or even track driving is incredilby unlikely.

Likewise, smash a curb hard enough -- you'll damage a forged wheel too, "real" or "fake"."

Pretty much! For fun though, a quality made cast wheel versus a uncontrolled cast wheel may have significantly different material properties, as the porosities from a poor casting process can lead to very weak metal strength. Those will snap like a twig in situations that maybe a properly controlled cast wheel wouldn't...and a forged wheel would typically perform better than the cast counterparts.

Food for thought.

(And no I'm not saying JDM or bust here. I'm simply trying to state some known facts and make sense of it. What it all comes down to, though, is the buyer, and their decision making.)

SoCal 370Z · 03-10-2011, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phelan

1. ken and SoCal may call me a JDM whore

Alright, alright, you're just a whore (remiss of JDM)...now, can I have my fake pillows back?

03-10-2011, 01:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
370Ztune The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,477 Drives: Z34 370Z Rep Power: 47	Say No to Fake Wheels...It Could Save Your Life Hey guys, Weds just posted up this video that demonstrates yet another reason to say "no" to knock-off wheels. As you can see, the real Weds wheel stood up to the stress test without major damage, while the fake was obliterated. Of course, some might consider the test to be a bit exaggerated as far as what kind of impact the wheel might see, but it does show the difference in quality and durability between the real and the fake. As always, support innovation and quality by buying real products! It may even save you butt!! -Kris Omnibeelzemo likes this. __________________ The Real JDM Facebook Bulletproof Instagram

03-10-2011, 03:20 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	What's next, a documentary on how Slick 50 protects pistons, demonstrated by placing them next to a belt sander? __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

03-10-2011, 03:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
SoCal 370Z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: US of A Posts: 2,842 Drives: Answers Rep Power: 34	I don't understand why Phelan was given the voiceover for this video? __________________ ( Click to show/hide ) Why I NEVER say NO to the Panda Lou Fusz!!!

03-10-2011, 04:31 PM	#13 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	1. Claiming that buying a certain manufacturer's wheels could "save your life" is insulting -- it's a scare tactic. Show me any evidence of a correlation between any particular brand of wheel and accidents or death. 2. "Knock off" is misleading. There are about half a dozen identical or nearly identical "mesh" wheels floating around by different sponsors on here, and they all appear to be of similar quality (e.g., similar weight, development methods, forged), though they are sold under different names. Who's copying whom? 3. The irony is, there are really only about a dozen or so different wheel styles anyway. They're wheels -- not rare pieces of art. Sorry, but this kind of advertising turns me away as a consumer. What I care about: how is it manufactured, what will it cost relative to similar other wheels (see point #3) and what do they weigh? As to quality control, show me evidence of that. Show me the company policy of how many wheels get pulled off the assembly line at random and tested before the whole batch gets boxed up and sent off? No one here has that info, and if they do, by all means, show me that not this "save your life" video. Is it the same for Volk and SSR? What about Weds? How much does it matter? What's the industry standard? Is there one? As to the maufacturing process, the major advantage of forging is that -- in theory -- you can make an equally strong wheel at a lower weight than a similarly desgined cast wheel. If weight is irrelevant, and it's all about bling, then just buy what you want/can afford. The odds of the wheel simply failing in normal or even track driving is incredilby unlikely. Likewise, smash a curb hard enough -- you'll damage a forged wheel too, "real" or "fake". Guess that's why many racing teams and autoxers like Rotas -- another "knock off" wheel company. They can get what they want at a competitive price. That I can respond to -- not scare tactics. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it. Last edited by Jordo!; 03-10-2011 at 04:41 PM.

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03-10-2011, 01:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
Waiz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 9,262 Drives: Z33 & GE8 Rep Power: 460	Wow! Good find, Volk and BBS should do same.

03-10-2011, 01:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141521	yep, cheezo's like XXR's literally shatter vs bending upon impact from big enough pot holes. it's almost like they're made out of glass.

03-10-2011, 02:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
saber chew chew chew Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: West Coast Posts: 1,430 Drives: WRX Rep Power: 26	What you get with some name brands is a very rigorous quality control. Forging or casting, buying wheels from Volk, Weds, etc. will ensure that the process has been inspected, is controllable, and is relatively defect free. The issue about "fake" wheels is that the quality control process present in the name brands sometimes isn't there. The wheels shatter because the casting process itself can lead to very weak wheels if done improperly. The material properties bear that out. That, and stealing the IP of another company is just....ugh. With that said, I'm just curious what 370ztune defines as 'Real Wheels'. I assume this is just a point against Varrstoen, Rota, and other knock-offs?

03-10-2011, 02:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
cheshirecat A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 1,428 Drives: N54 135i Rep Power: 293	You takes a risk.

03-10-2011, 02:19 PM	#7 (permalink)
TypeOne A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 2,682 Drives: BSM 370 Rep Power: 1851	Spreading around the web like wild fire... I've seen this video a few times already today.

03-10-2011, 04:19 PM	#12 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141521	btw, if you guys are looking to buy wheels made in japan, buy them very soon.... i have a feeling after most companies sell off their stock from FY2010, prices will jump up significantly. most japanese companies end their fiscal year in march, starts fresh 4/1. ive already seen several musical instruments this month just pop up in price overnight by as much as 12-15%. hahaha. i laugh because i knew this was coming and already bought my wheels for this year.