Say No to Fake Wheels...It Could Save Your Life
 

Hey guys, Weds just posted up this video that demonstrates yet another reason to say "no" to knock-off wheels.




As you can see, the real Weds wheel stood up to the stress test without major damage, while the fake was obliterated. Of course, some might consider the test to be a bit exaggerated as far as what kind of impact the wheel might see, but it does show the difference in quality and durability between the real and the fake.

As always, support innovation and quality by buying real products! It may even save you butt!!

-Kris

Wow!

Good find, Volk and BBS should do same.

yep, cheezo's like XXR's literally shatter vs bending upon impact from big enough pot holes. it's almost like they're made out of glass.

What you get with some name brands is a very rigorous quality control. Forging or casting, buying wheels from Volk, Weds, etc. will ensure that the process has been inspected, is controllable, and is relatively defect free. The issue about "fake" wheels is that the quality control process present in the name brands sometimes isn't there. The wheels shatter because the casting process itself can lead to very weak wheels if done improperly. The material properties bear that out.

That, and stealing the IP of another company is just....ugh.

With that said, I'm just curious what 370ztune defines as 'Real Wheels'. I assume this is just a point against Varrstoen, Rota, and other knock-offs?

You takes a risk.

Spreading around the web like wild fire... I've seen this video a few times already today.

Haha, you could say that. Yes, we do define "knock-offs" as any design that's copied from another manufacturer, and strongly discourage the purchase of these products.

What's next, a documentary on how Slick 50 protects pistons, demonstrated by placing them next to a belt sander?

I don't understand why Phelan was given the voiceover for this video?

because he's a fake japanese? :icon17:

Dammit...I knew it!!!

btw, if you guys are looking to buy wheels made in japan, buy them very soon.... i have a feeling after most companies sell off their stock from FY2010, prices will jump up significantly. most japanese companies end their fiscal year in march, starts fresh 4/1.

ive already seen several musical instruments this month just pop up in price overnight by as much as 12-15%. :D hahaha. i laugh because i knew this was coming and already bought my wheels for this year. :p

1. Claiming that buying a certain manufacturer's wheels could "save your life" is insulting -- it's a scare tactic.

Show me any evidence of a correlation between any particular brand of wheel and accidents or death.


2. "Knock off" is misleading. There are about half a dozen identical or nearly identical "mesh" wheels floating around by different sponsors on here, and they all appear to be of similar quality (e.g., similar weight, development methods, forged), though they are sold under different names. Who's copying whom?


3. The irony is, there are really only about a dozen or so different wheel styles anyway. They're wheels -- not rare pieces of art.


Sorry, but this kind of advertising turns me away as a consumer.

What I care about: how is it manufactured, what will it cost relative to similar other wheels (see point #3) and what do they weigh?

As to quality control, show me evidence of that. Show me the company policy of how many wheels get pulled off the assembly line at random and tested before the whole batch gets boxed up and sent off? No one here has that info, and if they do, by all means, show me that not this "save your life" video.

Is it the same for Volk and SSR? What about Weds? How much does it matter? What's the industry standard? Is there one?

As to the maufacturing process, the major advantage of forging is that -- in theory -- you can make an equally strong wheel at a lower weight than a similarly desgined cast wheel.

If weight is irrelevant, and it's all about bling, then just buy what you want/can afford. The odds of the wheel simply failing in normal or even track driving is incredilby unlikely.

Likewise, smash a curb hard enough -- you'll damage a forged wheel too, "real" or "fake".

Guess that's why many racing teams and autoxers like Rotas -- another "knock off" wheel company. They can get what they want at a competitive price.

That I can respond to -- not scare tactics.

I'm kind of split on this myself. While I agree that original rims are better built in general than most of the copycats, I also don't feel that the video really backed up its claim that a well-constructed wheel will be a life saver, rather than a resilient product.

Exactly.

They rattled off some sort of standard that identifies the testing procedure, but I really have no idea what the Weds failure rate is by comparison (I doubt it's 0%) or know whether it even really matters.

Basically, they showed one of their wheels surviving this test (which may or may not matter) and one competitor's wheel failing (which may or may not matter). That's marketing, not science.

I think its awesome that Weds wheels may be a little stronger -- does that justify the cost difference or give them the ability to claim it will "save my life"? Beats me.

But the fact they presented it as a life saving issue is really, really, insulting.

Damn, stirring the pot much? :p

1. ken and SoCal may call me a JDM whore, but I agree that this video is purely a scare tactic. Wheels falling apart can happen to even the most highly regarded wheel manufacturers in the world. What matters is how the company designed and manufactured it. As long as a strict QC process was adhered to, and the wheel passed the necessary safety tests, I don't see the issue. Where you run into problems is if you buy replica wheels that are untested, and uncertified. At that point, you're on your own, and the chances you have a weak / problematic wheel increases.

tl;dr - Yes, this video was sensationalist media. Happens all the time. Ever try reading a tabloid? :rofl2:

2. Perhaps. Rays was established in 1973, Rota in 1977. Dunno when the TE37 was released, but my guess is Rays had a few years of their wheels being out there before Rota. But that's just speculation, and really, who the hell cares. At this point, it's common 'accepted knowledge' (true or not) that Volks are 'original'. Now in regards to mesh, etc., I dunno. Don't want to get into that argument right now.

3. Point taken, but as discussed in a similar thread where you took offense to JDM parts for some reason, to each their own. Let's not get into that.


Now then - as I'm an engineer, and a bored one at that, I thought I'd take a stab at your other concerns:
"What I care about: how is it manufactured, what will it cost relative to similar other wheels (see point #3) and what do they weigh?"

Okay. Fair enough. I'd go farther and say that anybody looking to buy a wheel should be interested in how it is manufactured, and what quality controls are in place to govern the manufacturing process.

"As to quality control, show me evidence of that. Show me the company policy of how many wheels get pulled off the assembly line at random and tested before the batch gets boxed up andsent off? No one here has that info, and if they do, by all means, show me that not this "sve your life" video.

Is it the same for Volk and SSR? What about Weds? How much does it matter? What's the industry standard? Is there one?"

Most if not all of the highly regarded companies - not just JDM, mind you - are inspected to meet requirements set forth by the manufacturer's government, or else they can't even be used on their home roads. Off the top of my head, for example, Volk rims, cast or forged, must meet JWL standards (Volk uses JWL+R type 2 for cast, JWL+R type 1 for forged).

From SSR:
Now I may be wrong, but Europe has TUV standards that can also apply to wheels. In fact, didn't we all have a bit of fun about TUV for - oh never mind. One thing I need to look for is the acceptable failure rate for the certified wheels. That would be an interesting variable to get.

Now I did some digging, but some replica companies are not subject to these tests (not ALL! Some do still test! See this post regarding XXR), as typically their countries of manufacture aren't that stringent. So the buyer is taking the company at face value in regards to the manufacturing process, and the quality of the final product. Is the cost break worth it? I don't know. I think it's the buyer's decision to make, based on their comfort level, their knowledge of how hard they will push the car, and how much they are willing to spend.

"If weight is irrelevant, and it's all about bling, then just buy what you want/can afford. The odds of the wheel simply failing in normal or even track driving is incredilby unlikely.

Likewise, smash a curb hard enough -- you'll damage a forged wheel too, "real" or "fake"."

Pretty much! For fun though, a quality made cast wheel versus a uncontrolled cast wheel may have significantly different material properties, as the porosities from a poor casting process can lead to very weak metal strength. Those will snap like a twig in situations that maybe a properly controlled cast wheel wouldn't...and a forged wheel would typically perform better than the cast counterparts.

Food for thought. :)

(And no I'm not saying JDM or bust here. I'm simply trying to state some known facts and make sense of it. What it all comes down to, though, is the buyer, and their decision making.)

^^^ Dude, thank you for a well thought out and highly informative answer.

Yes, fair enough -- if a given company willfully fails to follow a government accepted standard of safety, then buyer beware, whether or not it will "save a life".

See, but THAT message, I can get behind... thanks again for all of the info :tiphat:

Anytime :tup:

Also should add that in reading up on Rays specifically, their wheels are mandated by law to be JWL certified, but they take it a step further hence the JWL+R certification. Again I do not know what the acceptable failure rate is, nor their sampling rate from the processing. Just a little more explanation why they expect you to pay a bit more, and why people expect that once you buy a Volk rim, you'll never have to replace it...unless 1) you drive dumb or 2) you want to. :rofl2:

edit - someone beat me to it...and was a little more concise than i am :rofl2:

Did any of you guys notice in the side by side comparison the factory wheel was allot higher than the imitation wheel there for taking less of a impact.

Just thought I would throw my :twocents: in.

That test and video = Shameful propaganda

Phelan's comments and links = useful information consumers should keep in mind.

You run a risk with anything and everything you do. Even factory parts can fail.

There's always a risk to everything. As long as you don't buy wheels made of paper or look like someone made them in their back yard, you'll probably be ok.

You get what you pay for though, so if paying that extra $$$ for your own piece of mind is worth it to you then great, otherwise get whatever you want.

Alright, alright, you're just a whore (remiss of JDM)...now, can I have my fake pillows back?

I just saw the "food for thought" part. Time for angus burger today. I have a taste for fake charburger. :D

:yum:

Propaganda and advertisement. I'm pretty sure we agree that cast wheels are weaker than forged wheels. With impact, any wheel would be subject to break, dent, curb, or blow up. Getting one of my rims replaced will cost me $131 with delivery in 3-5 days. I can't say the same about baller wheels that can take up to a year for delivery. By the time your rims break or had been destroyed, I can safely say that many other factors contributed to the incident and not just because the wheels were "fake".

I can afford baller rims from Japan, but I find it unreasonable to drive on them on a daily basis. Maybe I'll just buy a set of Volks, Rays, BBS, or Weds rims just to keep as trophies in my garage so people will get off my back about running XXR's.

Your pic is a pretty little X

I don't know if "shameful propaganda" is necessarily the right thing to call it; it's still somewhat informative. :stirthepot: Although, I agree with everybody regarding that this isn't a definitive test. The portion of the title "it could save your life" was meant more as a way to get people to have a look at the thread...if I titled it "Weds Wheel Bump Test" I don't think as many people would've bothered to check it out. I still believe that the test holds some validity though. For instance, say you hit a very deep pothole at speed (as many of you know, are very common here in LA); the stress and hit that is put on the wheel can be equivalent to what this test demonstrated. I don't think completely discounting the testing that Weds has done is totally invalid.

Andrew is spot on regarding the JWL & TUV requirements; most low priced wheel manufacturers don't submit their products for certification.

By the way, if you guys want to know all the ins and outs of Rays' production process, have a read of this article; it's very informative:
w w w.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/1608/industry-insider-a-look-at-the-technology-behind-rays-wheels.aspx

Uh...

1. "Fake" is irrelevant (more to the point, the supposed "originality" of the design is irrelevant). What theoretically matters is adhereance to a specific safety standard.

I can get behind that.

2. The likekihood that using "fake" or "real" wheels that adhere to this standard will "Save a life" is entirely speculative -- no data was provided on the correspondance between failing to meet that standard and auto accidents let alone fatal ones.

It's an over-the-top, dire warning that is clearly designed to instill fear in a consumer.

That I can't get behind.

So, yeah. Maybe I should have said "shameless" rather than "shameful".

Forgive me.

In all fairness, what was the motivation of the video? Did Weds receive legal treats regarding rims which are not theirs that are accident related? Are more knockoffs of their design being sold versus theirs? Why?

^^^ A good question :tiphat:

Yah, just got done eating my fake angus burger... was good..cheaper than my usual charburger and not as tasty.... But I knew that so that was okay. :D

The message is you get wat you pay for.

Some manufacturers make wheels for different brands, in some cases the same wheel design with the exception of a different label. Yet depending on the brand, some feel they can or should charge more, even though the quality, materials and workmanship are identical.

Caution or say no to buying big brand names...it could break your bank. But if you can afford to, go for it! :)

I always love watching threads like these develop.

Fake haircare products from China contain e-coli and fecal matter.
In their defense, they look and smell just like the products they are copying, and they even come in the same packaging. In addition to that, the fake products are available in any retail store, saving buyers the trouble of going to a salon, and they are sometimes priced cheaper.
As long as you don't mind a little extra "poo" in your shampoo, fake is definitely the way to go!

:icon17:

I have a very specific complaint here -- it's not the negative press for "knock off/fake/" wheels -- it's the idea that purchasing a set could put my life in jeporady!

That's just manipulative advertising... :ugh2:

If they said, "Official Weds Wheels are Superior to the Competiton in Durability!" I'd have no issues, because that's at least is a defensible claim.

Saying that purchasing Weds wheel may save my life is just absurd.

I'd be more likely to save my life staying of a race track in the first place rather than pushing the car hard enough to cause a wheel to implode.

This thread is still open ?? :icon14: :wtf::gtfo2:

:icon18: :roflpuke2:

Well said!

Posts are still civilized...

Yeah, just a bunch of BS is all. Funny through.

oh totally...I don't know why I'm still posting...or reading for that matter. I guess I just have more time to kill today. LOL. Also working my thread count to break 1000. :icon17: :shakes head: