Help-wheel questions

vtec to vvel · 02-21-2020, 11:52 PM

I have literally just become the tire/wheel/camber expert after reading this thread.

justin_boy · 02-22-2020, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Lastly, let's talk about camber. This diagram illustrates what camber is:

Camber is the "tilt" of the wheel, measured in degrees. 0 camber is a wheel that is straight up and down. As the top wheel moves inward, the measurement is a negative number; if the top of the wheel moves outward, the measurement is positive.

Folks freak out whenever camber is not 0. These folks are stupid. Negative camber is not bad. Negative camber does not "increase" tire wear. Negative camber helps a car turn; how much camber is good depends on your suspension and the type of driving you're doing. There's basically no situation when positive camber helps. Most cars will operate better with more camber in front. Negative camber will cause "uneven" wear (as more weight is put on the inside of the tire), but it doesn't really cause the wear to occur faster. Another alignment setting, "toe" is the actual camber killer when done excessively

Example:

Not a perfect example due to the exotic suspension, but look at the extreme negative camber of this Formula 1 car. They turn so hard and so fast in part due to camber (and many other factors). The point is simply that camber can be good when appropriately measured.

Forget this performance bullcrap tho. Camber is essential for wheel fitment when combined with the proper height, wheel width, offset, and tire size.

Consider Wiggin's old setup:

This is a front wheel setup of 20x10.5 +24, with a 285/35/20 tire, which a much more aggressive wheel spec and much wider/taller tire spec than stock (which is 19x9.5 +40, 245/40/19). How does he cram all that under the fender? Negative camber, which pushes the top of tire inward so it can clear the fender.

Wiggins is an unusual setup because he is running such a tall tire; he was forced to by a Toyo sponsorship. Nonetheless, it illustrates what is possible with the appropriate alignment - thats a pretty fatass tire, not much stretch, and it fits

CarbonFZ's white Z is probably a more practical example. I believe those the first pic is Work Meister, 19x10 +10 in front, or more aggressive. I forgot the specs of his white faced 20x10 VSXX. You can see the stretched tire and negative camber that allows him to clear the fender. He's running a static set up, so that height is what he drives at.

Again - you should know the general concepts of wheel size, tire size, and camber. As a practical matter, study what folks have done before so you get a ballpark of what is possible with what type of work.

In general, aggressive wheels require a simple formula:
Coilovers to adjust height
SPL Parts suspension arms to adjust camber and other settings
Aggressive wheel size
camber and tire to fit

(you should also roll your fenders. Pay a guy $100 and it'll be done)

i think carbon fz is running a 10 et -2 if im not wrong

OptionZero · 02-22-2020, 02:04 PM

sounds about right. he has had many setups, i was too lazy to search

geeteezee · 02-22-2020, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Folks freak out whenever camber is not 0. These folks are stupid.

LOL! Appreciate the giggle.

somedude · 03-01-2020, 07:10 PM

First of, FANTASTIC thread. So much gooood info. However, the more I research about it, the more I think 0 people are running what I want to run. I have a V2 Nismo. I am lowered on BC ER series coils. I am tired of spending money on rubber every 6 months. I want to have a true square setup that would allow me to actually get 45 to 60k miles out of a set of all-seasons. Im trying to have 18x10 all around with 285/35 tires all around. I want to have a flush stance and budget is not really an issue. Im pretty sure the rears will work fine since I have a set of SSR GTV01 18x10.5 +22 and I have a 12 or 15mm spacer that give me just about flush. I also have the same wheels but with a 9.5 barrel width in the front and 275/35 rubber. All wrapped in NT05s. No rubbing in the front at all.
However, im having a problem figuring out if I can fit the 18x10 with 285/35 rubber in the front without rubbing anywhere and if I can have a flush stance as well. im ok with running spacers in the front as well if I have to but I rather not. My camber is not aggressive or anything. I live in Washington St so up here in Oak Harbor we have a lot of twisty roads to drive spiritedly. Am I looking for a unicorn? Does anyone run this setup without altering the OEM fenders? Please help.

OptionZero · 03-01-2020, 10:40 PM

The life of tires is going to be determined by three things:
- tire compound
- alignment, primarily toe
- driving style

You said your tires are NT05? Those are 200 tw, max summer tires meant for track duty with some streeetability. They will of course wear faster.

We don’t know your alignment specs but you should probably have it checked. As repeatedly mentioned, full adjustability requires SPLparts components

285 all around is very possible, the tracks guys favor that setup. Rear is no problem. Fronts generally need camber.

Your post is pretty garbled, you need to take the time to post more clearly.

If you have 18x10+22 the fronts can work with some camber. The reads will clear but will be very sunken.

If you want stance you will need better sizing and SPL parts. You should not be married to those wheels.

somedude · 03-11-2020, 10:04 PM

Thanks a lot for the response Option Zero. My camber in the front is -1.47. My alignment is perfectly within the green. Truline in Seattle did that + corner balanced it. I have all SPL parts in my suspension for maximum adjustability. I have heard from various people that +30 offset work and wouldn't rub in the front but I dont know how much their camber is. My SSRs (18x9.5 with 275/35 +22 in the front) fit perfect. No rubbing, no issues, just about flush. My SSRs in the back (18x10.5 +22) are just about flush with 12mm H&Rmm spacers.
My problem is to determine if I can fit 285s on a 10inch wheel in the front without rubbing and have a semi flush or flush stance. I've seen a couple of guys with RPF1s (+30 offset) on pictures, but I dont know their camber.

OptionZero · 03-12-2020, 01:45 PM

If i understand correctly, you want to run 18x9.5 +22, with a 285 tire in front?
Absolutely.

Hotrod, Alwakkra, and others all run 18x11 or 18x10.5 +15 or +18 with 285s in front on their track cars. They are probably at closer to -3 front camber tho, but you should be more than able to get a proper fitment. camber will also depend no your height

in any case, with the SPL FUCA you can run . . . basically any size wheel/tire you want. The adjustability is enormous.

Just gotta roll your fenders too for that extra space . . . but you can definitely do it.

Hell, Hotrodv is running 18x11+15 and a 315 tire on the track.

somedude · 03-15-2020, 04:04 PM

Thanks for the response Option Zero. I'm trying to fit 18x10-285/35 in the front with my current camber -1.47.

OptionZero · 03-15-2020, 04:45 PM

Probably gonna need to make that more than -2

There is no reason to be stud at -1.47

Negative camber is good within limits

Brendan · 03-17-2020, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somedude

Thanks for the response Option Zero. I'm trying to fit 18x10-285/35 in the front with my current camber -1.47.

You will need more negative camber to make that wide a tire fit on the front. As mentioned by others in the thread, what really kills tires is the excessive amount of toe that results from the change in camber when you lower the car. Once you fix that you should be good.

I am one of the folks running close to your ideal setup and with -3.7 of negative camber in the front it clears my fenders just fine.

I was able to know this would fit by researching the 18 inch wheel thread. The info and plenty of examples are out there.

OptionZero · 03-17-2020, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somedude

Thanks a lot for the response Option Zero. My camber in the front is -1.47. My alignment is perfectly within the green. Truline in Seattle did that + corner balanced it.

Didn't catch this the first time. The "green" range is the acceptable range for the MANUFACTURERS RECOMMENDED SETTINGS.

Nissan is not in the business of helping you fit more aggressive wheels. Nissan is in the business of increasing tire wear for the secretary that buys the sportscar to put put to work. Nissan is in the business of building in understeering so your below average minion doesn't spin out and sue them and/or whine about it

You want your camber to be even side to side, and to be sufficiently negative for your wheel/tire setup not to rub. Not to obey Nissan, who didn't even bother to build in any adjustibility into the front camber due to cost cutting.

There is no reason to stick to the factory alignment unless you love understeer and crappy wheel fitment, or are a lawyer for Nissan.

somedude · 03-24-2020, 07:26 PM

Gotcha. Thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate your help. I finally got some concise info. I'm going to start playing with that camber and see what I can do. Thanks again.

justin_boy · 03-24-2020, 09:37 PM

if im not mistaken, a general rule is you dont really start to sacrifice performance until you exceed -3 and even then its questionable. I currently have -2.3 front and -2.6 rear and it rides like a dream

OptionZero · 03-24-2020, 10:45 PM

there's drift cars running way over that

it depends what you want to do that determines how much camber is optimal for performance

for looks? run what you need to make the wheels fit

02-21-2020, 11:52 PM	#16 (permalink)
vtec to vvel A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: 813 Posts: 3,915 Drives: 13 Z Rep Power: 502909	I have literally just become the tire/wheel/camber expert after reading this thread. __________________ Don't like what I post? Too bad. I really don't give a sh!t

02-22-2020, 02:04 PM	#18 (permalink)
OptionZero A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sacramento Posts: 3,235 Drives: 15 370Z Nismo 6MT Rep Power: 214100	sounds about right. he has had many setups, i was too lazy to search __________________ OptionZero Build Thread

03-01-2020, 10:40 PM	#21 (permalink)
OptionZero A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sacramento Posts: 3,235 Drives: 15 370Z Nismo 6MT Rep Power: 214100	The life of tires is going to be determined by three things: - tire compound - alignment, primarily toe - driving style You said your tires are NT05? Those are 200 tw, max summer tires meant for track duty with some streeetability. They will of course wear faster. We don’t know your alignment specs but you should probably have it checked. As repeatedly mentioned, full adjustability requires SPLparts components 285 all around is very possible, the tracks guys favor that setup. Rear is no problem. Fronts generally need camber. Your post is pretty garbled, you need to take the time to post more clearly. If you have 18x10+22 the fronts can work with some camber. The reads will clear but will be very sunken. If you want stance you will need better sizing and SPL parts. You should not be married to those wheels. Rusty, Ghostvette and BildoDabbins like this. __________________ OptionZero Build Thread

03-12-2020, 01:45 PM	#23 (permalink)
OptionZero A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sacramento Posts: 3,235 Drives: 15 370Z Nismo 6MT Rep Power: 214100	If i understand correctly, you want to run 18x9.5 +22, with a 285 tire in front? Absolutely. Hotrod, Alwakkra, and others all run 18x11 or 18x10.5 +15 or +18 with 285s in front on their track cars. They are probably at closer to -3 front camber tho, but you should be more than able to get a proper fitment. camber will also depend no your height in any case, with the SPL FUCA you can run . . . basically any size wheel/tire you want. The adjustability is enormous. Just gotta roll your fenders too for that extra space . . . but you can definitely do it. Hell, Hotrodv is running 18x11+15 and a 315 tire on the track. __________________ OptionZero Build Thread

03-15-2020, 04:45 PM	#25 (permalink)
OptionZero A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sacramento Posts: 3,235 Drives: 15 370Z Nismo 6MT Rep Power: 214100	Probably gonna need to make that more than -2 There is no reason to be stud at -1.47 Negative camber is good within limits __________________ OptionZero Build Thread

03-01-2020, 07:10 PM	#20 (permalink)
somedude Base Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: WA Posts: 16 Drives: 16 370z Nismo Tech M Rep Power: 9	First of, FANTASTIC thread. So much gooood info. However, the more I research about it, the more I think 0 people are running what I want to run. I have a V2 Nismo. I am lowered on BC ER series coils. I am tired of spending money on rubber every 6 months. I want to have a true square setup that would allow me to actually get 45 to 60k miles out of a set of all-seasons. Im trying to have 18x10 all around with 285/35 tires all around. I want to have a flush stance and budget is not really an issue. Im pretty sure the rears will work fine since I have a set of SSR GTV01 18x10.5 +22 and I have a 12 or 15mm spacer that give me just about flush. I also have the same wheels but with a 9.5 barrel width in the front and 275/35 rubber. All wrapped in NT05s. No rubbing in the front at all. However, im having a problem figuring out if I can fit the 18x10 with 285/35 rubber in the front without rubbing anywhere and if I can have a flush stance as well. im ok with running spacers in the front as well if I have to but I rather not. My camber is not aggressive or anything. I live in Washington St so up here in Oak Harbor we have a lot of twisty roads to drive spiritedly. Am I looking for a unicorn? Does anyone run this setup without altering the OEM fenders? Please help.

03-11-2020, 10:04 PM	#22 (permalink)
somedude Base Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: WA Posts: 16 Drives: 16 370z Nismo Tech M Rep Power: 9	Thanks a lot for the response Option Zero. My camber in the front is -1.47. My alignment is perfectly within the green. Truline in Seattle did that + corner balanced it. I have all SPL parts in my suspension for maximum adjustability. I have heard from various people that +30 offset work and wouldn't rub in the front but I dont know how much their camber is. My SSRs (18x9.5 with 275/35 +22 in the front) fit perfect. No rubbing, no issues, just about flush. My SSRs in the back (18x10.5 +22) are just about flush with 12mm H&Rmm spacers. My problem is to determine if I can fit 285s on a 10inch wheel in the front without rubbing and have a semi flush or flush stance. I've seen a couple of guys with RPF1s (+30 offset) on pictures, but I dont know their camber.

03-15-2020, 04:04 PM	#24 (permalink)
somedude Base Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: WA Posts: 16 Drives: 16 370z Nismo Tech M Rep Power: 9	Thanks for the response Option Zero. I'm trying to fit 18x10-285/35 in the front with my current camber -1.47.

03-24-2020, 07:26 PM	#28 (permalink)
somedude Base Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: WA Posts: 16 Drives: 16 370z Nismo Tech M Rep Power: 9	Gotcha. Thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate your help. I finally got some concise info. I'm going to start playing with that camber and see what I can do. Thanks again.

03-24-2020, 09:37 PM	#29 (permalink)
justin_boy Track Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: woodland hills Posts: 600 Drives: z34 Rep Power: 8367	if im not mistaken, a general rule is you dont really start to sacrifice performance until you exceed -3 and even then its questionable. I currently have -2.3 front and -2.6 rear and it rides like a dream

03-24-2020, 10:45 PM	#30 (permalink)
OptionZero A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Sacramento Posts: 3,235 Drives: 15 370Z Nismo 6MT Rep Power: 214100	there's drift cars running way over that it depends what you want to do that determines how much camber is optimal for performance for looks? run what you need to make the wheels fit __________________ OptionZero Build Thread

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