First track day done but I think I need better tires
 

So did my first track day at leguna and have to say I am way impressed by the capabilities of the z in Oem suspension with just the addition of stillen sway bars. So I never reached the limits of the car but the tires feel super greasy and I know they are the complete wrong tire for the car but it's what was on them, bought the car CPO and they had the wrong front size so I now have two brand new fronts and just waiting for the tears to wear through (about 4/32 now) before I change all 4. So currently I have the Michelin pilot sport a/s 3, so they are an all season even snow! Lol and a 500 tread wear. So this is my daily driver so I was looking at hankook v12, conti dw, or pole position so4 as replacements (something near the 300 wear rate so a decent compromise). Question is will I feel an improvement from 500 to 300 to make the jump now before next track event or just continue on these a/s 3 until the rears wear out (probably have another 1-2 track days left for them if I choose to use them again). I know at my level I still had more track I could use up etc and didn't hit limits but the tires just feel so greasy it doesn't feel confidence inspiring to push it to the edge, however if a 300 tire won't be that much different then I might as well continue to learn on them and get my monies worth. I know stock is a 140 but I can't do that as a daily driver.

You bought a 370Z, are now taking it to the track, so put some real tires on it. RE-11 or RE-71R's are your best choices. Use the search button. As another option I would suggest getting another set of wheels, even if it is another set of stockers, and put better tires on those for your track days.

Just got my re11s and they are badass in the canyons

In the long run wheels and tires are an option but not for a while. Re11 will wear out way too fast as a daily driver and again I'm on stock suspension with stock angles. This car is my daily and will remain so (only plan to track 2-3 over the summers and really all I can afford), just looking for a good compromise I am not racing and don't need to be the fastest just want a more secure feeling than how greasy it felt but it is probably just me needing to learn what is really loose vs what feels loose. Just trying to plan my next set.

The Pole Position was a significant improvement of the OE Bridgestone Re050. However, the way I drive, I'm not going to get 20k miles out of the tires. Even with a camber kit and 2° negative on the otherwise stock suspension, I'm hard on the outside part of the tires.

The SO4 are a good daily driver, and handle very well. I have 10k on my set and I push them and they wear great. Word of advice is I would bump them up to the next size front and back. The thread size on SO4's in comparison to the factory RE-50 is short.

Treadwear numbers are meaningless. They will only get you into the ballpark. It is very possible to find a 300 and a 200 tire that will both wear at the same rate. This is largely because tire manufacturers are free to rate a tire at a lower number that the tire really is.

Also treadwear ratings do not necessarily reflect "gripiness".

See I don't even see outer wear on mine they whole tire just slipped more than rolled and gripped. Kinda melted look all the way accross and still throwing **** out of them 2 days later but what a blast.

Pilot Supersport? Should be in a similar class as the S04.

Ok so has anyone tried the Michelin pilot sport a/s 3 because I don't ever see it compared vs these other tires. Doesn't seem like it's in the same league, seems more in line with the dws.

S04s are an excellent choice. Very grippy and excellent in the rain. Nice traction. Far superior than crappy stock tires.

You should NOT be using all season tires on a track. Save you pennies and buy a second set of wheels/tires for the track. RE11/RE71r/BFG RivalS are all good choices.

RE11s wear really well. They're the first max performance tires that have lasted this long for me. Starting to get close to the wear spots at the bottom of the treads on the rears but that's not an issue during the summer. Mine will last till the rains hit in November or December. I think I'll have over 40k miles on them. Amazing! Not recommended below 35F or somewhere around there. This is still the first set of tires I've been on since the stock re050s wore out and I'm at 58K.

40k seriously? That's sounds unreal. If true then I could absolutely use re11 but that doesn't seem realistic. Again I plan to get a second set but that's a long road out and my rear will be wearing to warning bars sooner than later since they are at 4/32 or close now and 2 is wear limit. I don't have enough for 8 tires and 4 rims, so I'll get a daily driver tire that I could use in track until I have enough for another set and maybe some re11/direzza II etc.

Unless the re11 really do wear well, I plan multiple Tahoe trips from Bay Area and a so cal trip so not wanting to eat up expensive performance tire for highway cruising, waste of $.

Yep, unreal is right. Lots of highway miles but still, unreal!

BTW, I did not let the tire shop align my car. Figured I didn't hit anything and the RE050s had a good wear pattern on them. Also, I don't peal out. Spinnin aint winnin.

I think most people running the RE11s are amazed at how well the wear.

Hmm maybe some super sports as they get some good comments and at least have a 15k warranty which is kind of comforting when spending 1k+ on tires.

If you cannot afford a non-A/S tire for the track, then I suggest you put off going to the track. As Gomer mentioned, do not track on an all-season tire. You will just burn them up and will not learn anything about high performance driving, wasting money hand-over-fist. Just take a step back and ask yourself if what you are trying to do makes any sense. Just bought a Z...paying the fee for track days (at Laguna Seca, noneless)...wanting another A/S tire...cannot afford a performance tire appropriate for track use, even limited. No. It does not make sense. Make a plan for next year, save your money, try again later.

Also, if it is your daily and just thinking about tires is a financial struggle, I'd stop taking your car to the track on inferior tires. One slip into the wall and you won't be able to recover financially.

Man, going to the track on all-seasons seems . . . suicidal or pointless. Push it and the low level of grip is gonna send you into a wall or other car; the alternative is going like 5/10ths and then why bother

If you can't afford tires, like others have said . . . best to wait. This is for safety.

I'd recommend new brake pads, brake fluid, and from what i've heard, an oil cooler.

Already have brake lines, high boiling point fluid, xp10/xp8 and 34 row cooler (and hit 245 oil temp) so I got all the safety stuff done. I buy the hdpe insurance when I go, yea it adds the cost but cheaper if anything happens. It's not that I can't afford the re11 it's just what makes more sense when I am still learning and not even pushing the limits of the tires I have. Spending that much for a tire to really only use 2-3 times a year and not even be near its limits while wasting it 99% on highway. There were still plenty of people out there with none r comp tires guys. It's not like everyone is in group D.

Also I am still on Oem suspension so not too much point running a super sticky tire with minor camber either.

I have pilot super sport currently on my car and very happy with them in the track. But I didn't try any tire in the Extreme category as they aren't available locally, even the PSS, I bought them and shipped them from UK.

I had them on my old DD but I didn't track them, they lasted two years and half with around 37k miles on them.

I fully plan on a second set later but that will be more likely a next year thing that I get over winter. Just looking at what I can use as a good tire now since my rears are nearing wear limit and these tires pretty much don't match this vehicle anyway. Also at my level I am not pushing the car, as for not being worth it if only pushing it 5/10 well that's all an opinion. See I am required to hold my class b license for work so I can not drive reckless in the street at all! Otherwise I get arrested, pay huge fine, lose my license, lose my job, now can't afford payments, lose my car etc etc. So then why bother owning a z if I can't use it every now and again so the 200.00 for an open track event and 200.00 for a 2 day insurance policy all of a sudden looks very cheap comparatively wouldn't you say?

OP, maybe you should consider autox instead of doing HPDE. It still gives you an opportunity to push the car (albeit not as fast) but at a much lower cost and lower risk.

FWIW, Laguna is pretty easy on tires, at least compared to other tracks in California. I get 5-6 track days out of a set of RE-71Rs. Drop the A/S and just take the Skibus to Tahoe!

Not really the same thing or same driving technique. I can cover the cost fine and I only plan to go 2-3 times a season. I think you guys are getting the wrong idea of what I'm after. I am not racing or trying for a personal best or competing I am out to have a fun day legally and stay within my limits, comfort zone. Yes at the track there are plenty of track spec Porsche and BMW but there are also lower level classes with people that just want to learn to be smoother/cleaner and quicker. So for me that's worth the cost for others maybe not and they will do it on the streets and if they ever get caught they will probably have a different opinion later after the lawyer fees, fines and community service (it only takes that one time to make all the others not worth it). So I'll do my spirited driving on the track and I'm more than happy to give a point to pass if I'm holding someone up.

Looking at the avg mi and my avg mi I probably will look at the re11/pss/or direzza star spec ii after all since I only drive at 15k a year at most. Probably end up a rear set a year and a front ever 1.5 is my guess.

Good to know and yea I will never take my z in the snow I only need to make it to granite bay to hitch a ride with a friend. I do Tahoe in summer for northstar dh biking. I will look at the 71r as a second set for next season when I have another set of wheels. I've found some for about 1400 which isn't bad. Just going to look for another set of Oem Rays sports.

Ok well thanks for all the feedback guys, it give me a lot to think about and I really appreciate the concern for my safety and understand where your coming from and do believe in being safe (that's why I did all the brake and cooling work before going). Looks like I will get another set of wheels and tires but in the more imediate future I will drop the a/s tires and get a max performance since I drive low mi anyway and that should suit me for a few track days as well as I am not one that believes in pushing it to my limits, I stay safer and steadily progress (been dh riding for over 20 years and haven't broken anything knock on wood. Still not the fastest guy but not the slowest either and don't have all the injuries the fastest guy has). So just knowing my limits and staying within them as I get more comfortable I will steadily get faster and smother and at that point may require some more mods but I still have a long ways to go before I even come close to pushing what I haves limits.

Thanks again community.

We can all respect that. My opinion is:

• I think running front XP10 on stock size, all-season compound tires is a mismatch. Certainly not a good match long term.
• If all season tire already feels greasy to you now, you'll outgrow that tire category in no time.
• Most starts out with the idea of just having a little fun. That quickly changes as your skill improves...slowly but surely, you brake a little later, turn a little harder, even if you aren't trying to be a hero.
• If you wanna save $, get all season for the street, invest in a set of 18' rims and serious shoes for the track. However...
• IMHO, in hot climate, using strong summer tires on the street is a not waste of money. From a safety perspective, that 5ft reduction in braking distance or the extra bit of lateral grip may make a difference just that one time you need it most.

Cool plan and that fits what I'm after. I do plan on a second set, probably some type of r comp so I can still drive on them to and from the track as I have no trailer (I got a hitch but no trailer). Will 18 fit with sport brakes? I may look into cost comparison as it seems you can find the Rays 19 for not too bad an investment but then the tires will cost more vs probably paying more for a good aftermarket 18 but then cheaper tire price.

And your right the brakes were way overkill but I'm still not late braking yet and errord on the side of safe (didn't want car and driver Nismo event happening to me), easy enough to swap in and out too so they should last a while since only used on track.

18's do, it's a snug fit. Plenty of serious track guys run 18's on their Z's. I believe the z's in certain country (Australia I think) actually comes with 18in wheels and sports brakes.

I had all 3 tires on my bone stock z, here is my impression

evo v12- first 3k miles decent grip in dry and rain but when the tires were worn half way, the Z felt like riding on hockey pucks. The traction was absolutely horrible under any heavy acceleration and downright dangerous in the rain. Replaced at 10k miles.

A/S 3- great traction in dry (after warmed up) and wet with nice deep thread. Can't complain at all with those for all seasons. I used to brake torque on the street to launch the Z and it wouldn't even break traction, while the other 2 spun. Did over 50 drag strip runs with burnout (12.91 best 1/4 mile) and still lasted 12k miles. I did notice the traction reduced significantly right before hitting the wear bar. From what you described, your A/S 3 are almost done too. That explains the greasy slipping feeling. You definately wouldn't be disappointed with a new set. The A/S 3 are actually underrated, search some professional reviews of it and they are performing very close to summer tires.

So4- I actually bought those based on recommendations, but was unimpressed. First of all, they are smaller in size than other manufactures. Like another forum member stated, go one size larger. The traction was horrible for the performance class it was in. It would spin out every time during WOT from standstill. At least when the V12 were new it would spin out less and the A/S 3 would just grip. Running over any puddle of water would guarantee hydroplane, where the A/S3 had no problem. Only managed 13.3 best 1/4 mile with those. Sold the 370 before replacing.

I also upgraded to 20s from 18s. Running 255/30 front and 285/30 rear. Very spirited daily driving.

If you are on a budget, go with A/S 3. It also has 30k miles warranty. If you want the best track feel, can't go wrong with PSS or re11

Awesome man thank you so much. Yea the a/s 3 did go where I pointed they just felt greasiest than I thought they would be. Looking at it now I may have not set the pressure right as I had them at door sticker psi and now reading the car prep sheet for first timer they state to inflate 3-5psi over door sticker. So I may have overheated them too. I'm sure a large part is I just need to learn what is loose and what is truly loose. As for budget it seems the a/s 3 and pss is same price so I'll probably go the pss route.

I do not concur with ssmoked impressions of the S-04, especially the rain portion.

Those that don't run an r comp at the track do you guys run higher inflation pressures? Wondering if maybe I just got them too hot and running a higher pressure would help.

I've run 4 different tires on the track so maybe I can help out a bit based on what i've experienced:

Bridgestone S04 Pole Position: I got these because I was not sure if I would like tracking the car yet. They're decent for beginners providing enough grip to give you confidence, and they communicate (make noise) at the limit so you know when the car is being pushed. However, if you're progressing quickly, you'll overheat these within a few laps, and they cannot hold multiple heat cycles.

Hankook RS3 v1: dont buy these as the v2 is supposedly better with warmup. I sold my set quickly.

Bridgestone RE-11: The best all around tire for the casual track enthusiast IMO. Good grip levels and they last for a good while. They do not require much of a warmup and have decent wet traction should you find yourself in a wet session. I never hesitate recommending these to other Z owners who track.

Bridgestone RE-71R: These tires have freakish amounts of grip in dry and wet conditions. They require about the same amount of warmup as the RE-11. HOWEVER, these tires do not last long (I am known to be easy on tire wear compared to my other Z track friends and they didn't last long). They're sensitive to camber settings, and they do not squeal when at the limit. When they're out of heat cycles (2-3 full days at the track) laptimes will fall and they will give you the equivalent grip of an RE-11 or slightly less.

Cool, I think I am looking at either pss or s-04 for now and a second set with star spec or re-71r etc latter.

When you say the s-04 won't go through multiple heat cycles what do you mean?

Essentially, the tire will not be able to sustain multiple track sessions exposed to extreme loads. the compound will break down and the tire will eventually lose peak grip. You might think the tire is good since it may have tread, but the actual part of the tire doing the work is useless.

Noooooo. Lower the tire pressures. At the track with my conti DW's i was at 28 psi rear, and 30 front. The hotter they get, the higher the psi.

I understand the concept of heat raises the pressure but the heat is from the friction of the tire. Less air pressure is more surface area and more heat which can lead to the tire compound overheating and that's when it gets melted and greasy. Just reading their car prep list it says to run higher psi 3-5 so I'm thinking they want to resist that heat build up causing the melting. I used door sticker psi and still melted the tire.

I'm running S-04's on my DD, did a track day @ Streets of Willow (So Cal) with them.
4 x 20 mins sessions, no issues, had a BLAST!

1st track day so had to stay in beginners class w/ passing only in 2 straights w/ 'point-by'.
Best lap was 1:36.5...that's w/o pushing it too hard.

I'm very happy w/ the S-04's for my DD and they did fine on a track day.
30 psi f/r

Yes, having a set of 'track wheels' would be awesome but, not all of us can swing the cash or do enough TD's to justify the purchase.