Picking New Tires, Trying To Get More Front Grip

JARblue · 07-01-2015, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Uh...no, it absolutely will not.

Thank you for the enlightening response

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Slip angle, rough surface traction, heat management, and therefore cornering performance, assuming you're pushing it hard enough to generate that much heat that it matters, are absolutely valid points in the discussion of traction vs friction. The OP is contemplating differing tires sizes to manage understeer/oversteer. Those factors don't come into play. He want's to "loosen it up" and "free it up a little more by getting more contact with the road with the front tires". We're back to high school physics.

Let me get this straight. You acknowledge those factors are all part of cornering performance, then proceed to state that since the OP wants to manage under/oversteer those factors don't come into play.

Want to try that again?

Or maybe you can explain how to induce understeer or oversteer without turning the steering wheel

kenchan · 07-01-2015, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan

So then what would you recommend?

bicycle tires.

b1adesofcha0s · 07-01-2015, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

bicycle tires.

VSS370z · 07-01-2015, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

bicycle tires.

Wouldn't motorcycle tires be better optios?

AntiVenom · 07-01-2015, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSS370z

Wouldn't motorcycle tires be better optios?

no need to add the extra width. it won't make any difference anyway.

VSS370z · 07-01-2015, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntiVenom

no need to add the extra width. it won't make any difference anyway.

Oh damn you're right and i thought those were gonna be better for grip and cornering. Never mind!

dP3NGU1N · 07-01-2015, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

You are making the incorrect assumption that increased contact patch surface area will increase traction or grip. Friction is not dependent on surface area. A wider tire won't get you more grip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Uh...no, it absolutely will not. The OP is on a fool's errand.

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Slip angle, rough surface traction, heat management, and therefore cornering performance, assuming you're pushing it hard enough to generate that much heat that it matters, are absolutely valid points in the discussion of traction vs friction. The OP is contemplating differing tires sizes to manage understeer/oversteer. Those factors don't come into play. He want's to "loosen it up" and "free it up a little more by getting more contact with the road with the front tires". We're back to high school physics.

Typical troll responses. Plenty of "you're wrong because I said so" with zero usable information pertaining to the OPs original question. Please stop wasting everyone's time. The rest of us are here for answers.

If you have a solution, state it. Otherwise, kindly feel free to fu[k right off.

ScottOmatic · 07-01-2015, 11:08 PM

Hey it's cool guys...

Due to the wealth of info provided in this thread, I was able to pick out the optimal tires for my needs...

Rusty · 07-01-2015, 11:28 PM

The cards in the spokes are kick asss.

dP3NGU1N · 07-02-2015, 01:44 PM

I can see this trend catching on with EVs so that the blind can hear them coming. =)

MacCool · 07-04-2015, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

You're neglecting adhesion in your response. And oversteer/under steer is just f/r management of traction...

That basic equation assumes minimally elastic solids. Surface area matters more as the material becomes more elastic.

There are a lot of good resources to school up on traction out there. I'd recommend taking a look.

The basic equation accounts for adhesion as part of the coefficient of friction. Surface area doesn't matter.

MacCool · 07-04-2015, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dP3NGU1N

Typical troll responses. Plenty of "you're wrong because I said so" with zero usable information pertaining to the OPs original question. Please stop wasting everyone's time. The rest of us are here for answers.

If you have a solution, state it. Otherwise, kindly feel free to fu[k right off.

The solution, obvious solution, to oversteering or understeering is suspension, not tires. I can't help it if your grasp of rudimentary physics is so lacking that these concepts are beyond your ability to understand. Public education apparently isn't what it used to be.

Jordo! · 07-04-2015, 08:16 AM

Hmm. I was going to suggest a square set up as well, but really in order to keep tire size and compound a constant more than to play with relative grip -- a lot of that will depend on alignment settings and weight distribution/suspension more than anything.

I guess you could buy ultra sticky fronts relative to the rears, but that sounds like it will just make the car unpredictable...

So, assuming equal sized tires of same make, you want to stiffen up the rear relative to the front. That means a beefier rear anti-sway bar and firmer damper settings in the rear and softer in the front, if you can adjust them. Any other bracing you can add to the rear (without adding significant weight) will tend to nudge you more towards oversteer.

I think, maybe a little more camber in the front relative to the rear will help tuck the nose in too... not 100% certain on that one off the top of my head.

Scan over this site for lots and lots of advice on setting up cars for road racing

Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - ATW Home Page

This thread is helpful too

Suspension adjustments and how they affect handling

imjello · 07-04-2015, 01:30 PM

I was in the same boat and after enjoying much understeer on my first autocross event, I also started reading threads for solutions. I went from the base 18's Bridgestone 225 & 245 to Rays Sport 19's on Bridgestone S-04 Pole Position 265/40zr19 and 285/35zr19. They fit perfect and I can turn much harder without issue.

geddy lee · 07-04-2015, 02:51 PM

Finally a replacement for spinners

07-01-2015, 11:08 PM	#23 (permalink)
ScottOmatic Base Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 63 Drives: '88 Porsche 928 S4 Rep Power: 12	Hey it's cool guys... Due to the wealth of info provided in this thread, I was able to pick out the optimal tires for my needs... kenchan, Jordo!, b1adesofcha0s and 8 others like this.

07-01-2015, 11:28 PM	#24 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,167 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684437	The cards in the spokes are kick asss. dP3NGU1N, JARblue, VSS370z and 4 others like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

07-02-2015, 01:44 PM	#25 (permalink)
dP3NGU1N A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Irvine Posts: 1,682 Drives: 13 PW sport 6mt Rep Power: 18	I can see this trend catching on with EVs so that the blind can hear them coming. =) __________________ 35% Hooper Optik \| Takeda Attack CAI \| F.I. HFC \| Hotchkis Sway Bar \| Stillen 24row \| OS Giken Super Lock LSD \| TK Shift Knob \| EVO-R Carbon Diffuser

07-04-2015, 08:16 AM	#28 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	Hmm. I was going to suggest a square set up as well, but really in order to keep tire size and compound a constant more than to play with relative grip -- a lot of that will depend on alignment settings and weight distribution/suspension more than anything. I guess you could buy ultra sticky fronts relative to the rears, but that sounds like it will just make the car unpredictable... So, assuming equal sized tires of same make, you want to stiffen up the rear relative to the front. That means a beefier rear anti-sway bar and firmer damper settings in the rear and softer in the front, if you can adjust them. Any other bracing you can add to the rear (without adding significant weight) will tend to nudge you more towards oversteer. I think, maybe a little more camber in the front relative to the rear will help tuck the nose in too... not 100% certain on that one off the top of my head. Scan over this site for lots and lots of advice on setting up cars for road racing Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - ATW Home Page This thread is helpful too Suspension adjustments and how they affect handling ScottOmatic likes this. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

07-04-2015, 01:30 PM	#29 (permalink)
imjello Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: texas Posts: 285 Drives: F80 M3, S5 B9 Rep Power: 13	I was in the same boat and after enjoying much understeer on my first autocross event, I also started reading threads for solutions. I went from the base 18's Bridgestone 225 & 245 to Rays Sport 19's on Bridgestone S-04 Pole Position 265/40zr19 and 285/35zr19. They fit perfect and I can turn much harder without issue. ScottOmatic likes this.

07-04-2015, 02:51 PM	#30 (permalink)
geddy lee Base Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: delaware Posts: 161 Drives: 350Z Rep Power: 13	Finally a replacement for spinners

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