11.1.14 Dyno Runs

[ANMVQ]

Hi guys,

Started a new thread because we had been talking about this in someone else thread and didn't want to jack it, LOL

So long story is Car made of power but the AF's were in the 13's and 12's ending at 12.3 high?
There was also a dip in power at 6k the AF spikes to 12.5 ?
There is a pretty big gap in power favoring the stock map run @5k to 6k ? And power falls off hard on my tune while stock map builds all the way till 7300. The stock map is making more all the way though?
Cars I compared are below, Same dyno same day temps ECT, Was one year exactly from runs.

2011 G37X Coupe , 7SPD auto, Stock MAP- 19 Inch wheels

Takeda Intakes, HFC’s Exoctic speed Cat back, Stock Manifold
WHP 295 , 229 WTRQ AF’s ending 11.4 and as the af falls make power ?


2009 G37X Sedan , UPREV Tune-20 inch wheels

HFC’s Exoctic speed Cat back,M370 Intake manifold, Stock boxes with cold air mod, Pipe feeding the stock boxes.

WHP 285 , 230 WTRQ AF’s ending 12.3 big spike in AF at 6k power =power dip and power falls off.

Thoughts guys, WHY the stock map made more WHP and looks smother? WTRQ is the same tho ? Stock map has better AF's ending at 11.3 ? I have no clue how to tune but just using at what I'm looking at. Dark red and Dark blue on the overlay are my newest run 11.2.14 even the WTRQ has a pretty big dip in it?

[synolimit]

Car got rich, you lost power. Is this what I'm seeing?

[ANMVQ]

Yes it is , I just want to make sure I'm not crazy. Still not sure how a tuned file would make less than the stock map?

[synolimit]

Originally Posted by ANMVQ

Yes it is , I just want to make sure I'm not crazy. Still not sure how a tuned file would make less than the stock map?

Because it's rich. Leaner makes more power to a certain point. To leans to hot and you blow up. To rich is to cold and you flood. Just right is perfect. I'd say you're a good point off from where you need to be! 12.3-12.7 seems to do it. Every car is different though. Some like more timing, some like less. Based off that some like more or less fuel. Tuner just need to decide.

[niko86]

to me it looks like it is pulling timing from 5k upwards due to the fuelling

did you log your timing values?

this could either mean the fuel compensation map needs some work or something is wrong (leakage after the MAFs, MAFs dirty, Widebands faulty etc)

i would recommend doing a dyno pull while logging MAF voltage, ignition timing, fuel corrections and AFR on both banks

btw
synolimit, the graph from saturday is the one where it is making less power, the stock graph is the one where it is way to rich (11.4)
so your theory might not apply here, since the less power graph shows AFR values between 12.1 and 12.5, which is too rich, but nothing that would justify a 10 HP difference

[ANMVQ]

Originally Posted by niko86

to me it looks like it is pulling timing from 5k upwards due to the fuelling

did you log your timing values?

this could either mean the fuel compensation map needs some work or something is wrong (leakage after the MAFs, MAFs dirty, Widebands faulty etc)

i would recommend doing a dyno pull while logging MAF voltage, ignition timing, fuel corrections and AFR on both banks

What should these be I have all of those , I made logs of all the pulls 6
and form were 5k and up ?

[jwick]

I would also like to point out that you are going to lose some HP with 20" rim set up. More rotation mass to overcome = less power to the ground.

[niko86]

Originally Posted by jwick

I would also like to point out that you are going to lose some HP with 20" rim set up. More rotation mass to overcome = less power to the ground.

that's a good point, didn't even notice, well that explains the difference in horsepower i guess

[niko86]

Originally Posted by ANMVQ

What should these be I have all of those , I made logs of all the pulls 6
and form were 5k and up ?

fuel correction should be straight 100% (no correction, open loop)
MAF voltage should be a steady increase (no dips or weird readings jumping up and down)

AFR should be close to each other on bank 1 & 2

For timing, i would try referencing your log to the graph and see wether a dip in timing is obvious at that RPM ranges

max timing should be between 25-30

edit:
if you want you can send the logs to me, i can have a look, see if i spot something obvious

[ANMVQ]

Originally Posted by niko86

fuel correction should be straight 100% (no correction, open loop)
MAF voltage should be a steady increase (no dips or weird readings jumping up and down)

AFR should be close to each other on bank 1 & 2

For timing, i would try referencing your log to the graph and see wether a dip in timing is obvious at that RPM ranges

max timing should be between 25-30

fuel correction should be straight 100% (no correction, open loop)
MAF voltage should be a steady increase (no dips or weird readings jumping up and down) Fuel is 100 % all the way and MAF volts are 3.8 to 4.3 no weird drops ?

AFR should be close to each other on bank 1 & 2 They are with in .50 or so 14.93-15.52 @7270 RPMS


For timing, i would try referencing your log to the graph and see wether a dip in timing is obvious at that RPM ranges Timing starts at 17 climbs to 24 at 6134 the starts dropping till 6553 then it back to 24 drops again at 6741 and up again to 31 at 7625 ( Kinda all over the place)

max timing should be between 25-30 get no were near 30. 25 is the highest for like 1 second of throttle

[ANMVQ]

Maybe this helps ?

[niko86]

i just found your log in the other thread
can't really find anything terribly wrong with it, apart from fuelling being kinda bouncy and not enough timing.

i would say you are missing a couple of degrees of timing in general.

it's a wild guess, but i would suggest cleaning up the fuel compensation map, AFRs should be more linear in open loop.
Apart from that, did your oil run hot?
How old are the plugs?
Did you use different fuel (maybe same grade but different fuel station) ?

there must be a reason for the car to pull timing, unfortunately on the cipher logs you don't have knock strength, you can log that using the Rom Editor.
That would at least indicate wether the ECU thinks it sees knocking and starts pulling timing advance.

[ANMVQ]

Originally Posted by niko86

i just found your log in the other thread
can't really find anything terribly wrong with it, apart from fuelling being kinda bouncy and not enough timing.

i would say you are missing a couple of degrees of timing in general.

it's a wild guess, but i would suggest cleaning up the fuel compensation map, AFRs should be more linear in open loop.
Apart from that, did your oil run hot?
How old are the plugs?
Did you use different fuel (maybe same grade but different fuel station) ?

there must be a reason for the car to pull timing, unfortunately on the cipher logs you don't have knock strength, you can log that using the Rom Editor.
That would at least indicate wether the ECU thinks it sees knocking and starts pulling timing advance.

I don't have an oil temp gauge and the G's usually don't have issue but I have an oil cooler Z1 anyways so I'd say no to that, Plugs are new had them changed at 60k(67k on the car). Fuel is the same station I always use, LOL wont go any were else. BTW say one I used for my coupe, I do not have KR strength I don't think I don't see it when I have to check the boxes for my logs am I missing something?

[niko86]

if using Cipher for logging it won't let you select knock strength, you need to open Rom Editor and use the logging tool in there.

See my graphs for example, i got timing vs fly hp and o2 vs fly hp
you'll notice, o2 is more linear, from 4k to redline it just drops slighty but it does not jump as much as yours does, timing is higher as well, it does dip, but i guess that's just where the sweet spot of these engines is

http://s29.postimg.org/5ykcymuif/o2_hp.jpg
http://s1.postimg.org/c0kbimkcf/ign_hp.jpg

edit:
that's before i went for boost, obviously timing and o2 are looking much different now

[1slow370]

has anyone ever actually seen anything show up in knock strength? I have nevver seen it not be a column of zero's