Rough idle with forced induction

Cell · 07-14-2014, 08:53 PM

I logged my idle and was wonder what is a good third party site that allows me to share this file.

JARblue · 07-15-2014, 07:56 AM

If you already have an account, Dropbox makes it really easy to share a file or folder via http link.

Plasmite · 07-15-2014, 08:23 AM

Dropbox is an excellent choice. Use it for online DJing and have access to unlimited music

Mitco39 · 07-15-2014, 09:20 AM

To be fair I think its quite easy to overlook the cold fueling table as well it says cold on the label. I initially did and then just decided to give it a try anyways knowing that sometimes the labels dont always mean what you think they mean. Heck cold could be just low enough of a coolant temp that at idle the car cools down just enough to hit it where its colder (without knowing the rational behind the code its just a guessing game).

All I can say is mine has not leaned out once since. I still have to find time to play with the hot starts (I tune most evenings during the week so I dont have much time to play with my own toys).

Jwick, send me a uprev log of both your sort term, long term, target afr, and rpm if you would like me to take a look at it for you.

Ill get a video of mine idling nice once I take it out next time.

jwick · 07-15-2014, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

To be fair I think its quite easy to overlook the cold fueling table as well it says cold on the label. I initially did and then just decided to give it a try anyways knowing that sometimes the labels dont always mean what you think they mean. Heck cold could be just low enough of a coolant temp that at idle the car cools down just enough to hit it where its colder (without knowing the rational behind the code its just a guessing game).

All I can say is mine has not leaned out once since. I still have to find time to play with the hot starts (I tune most evenings during the week so I dont have much time to play with my own toys).

Jwick, send me a uprev log of both your sort term, long term, target afr, and rpm if you would like me to take a look at it for you.

Ill get a video of mine idling nice once I take it out next time.

I'll have to do some logs in order to get you this. Which UpRev parameters are you actually looking at? My tuning knowledge is basic so I want to make sure I give you exactly what you are looking for.

GaleForce · 07-15-2014, 09:26 AM

Good job Mitch.

Now I need to find time to log my car.

Mitco39 · 07-15-2014, 09:33 AM

Jason,

If you get time send me the log if you would like. Its not telling me anything about the tune so I wouldn't be stepping on R/Ts toes or anything like that. I would just be more or less curious to see if your car is doing the same as mine.

GaleForce · 07-15-2014, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

Jason,

If you get time send me the log if you would like. Its not telling me anything about the tune so I wouldn't be stepping on R/Ts toes or anything like that. I would just be more or less curious to see if your car is doing the same as mine.

Absolutely Mitch. I wouldn't hesitate giving you additional data to help with your tests/theories, anything if it means helping this community.

Mitco39 · 07-15-2014, 10:40 AM

To just grab a quick log all you have to do is this (this is by memory so hopefully its a 100% correct, I dont have the cable with me currently to check it)

-Open Osiris Rom Editor
-Check for updates
-It will connect to the car and say ECU Ready after the updates are complete
-click logging and tracing
-On the right hand side of that window you will see all parameters you can select, if you happen to select to many it just wont log and you will be left scratching your head lol.
-I would like you to log the following;
-Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1
-Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2
-Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1
-Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 2
-MAF flow (g/sec)
-Target AFR

Hit the red circle to record and then stop recording and save the log under file.

It will be the same ones that show up in those videos I posted last week.

jwick · 07-15-2014, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

To just grab a quick log all you have to do is this (this is by memory so hopefully its a 100% correct, I dont have the cable with me currently to check it)

-Open Osiris Rom Editor
-Check for updates
-It will connect to the car and say ECU Ready after the updates are complete
-click logging and tracing
-On the right hand side of that window you will see all parameters you can select, if you happen to select to many it just wont log and you will be left scratching your head lol.
-I would like you to log the following;
-Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1
-Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2
-Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1
-Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 2
-MAF flow (g/sec)
-Target AFR

Hit the red circle to record and then stop recording and save the log under file.

It will be the same ones that show up in those videos I posted last week.

Nice detailed notes

I'm not that basic, I know how to log just wanted to make sure I knew exactly what parameters you wanted.

Mitco39 · 07-15-2014, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwick

Nice detailed notes

I'm not that basic, I know how to log just wanted to make sure I knew exactly what parameters you wanted.

I just typed it out for anyone else following along. This makes it pretty straightforward for everyone.

jwick · 07-18-2014, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

To just grab a quick log all you have to do is this (this is by memory so hopefully its a 100% correct, I dont have the cable with me currently to check it)

-Open Osiris Rom Editor
-Check for updates
-It will connect to the car and say ECU Ready after the updates are complete
-click logging and tracing
-On the right hand side of that window you will see all parameters you can select, if you happen to select to many it just wont log and you will be left scratching your head lol.
-I would like you to log the following;
-Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1
-Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2
-Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1
-Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 2
-MAF flow (g/sec)
-Target AFR

Hit the red circle to record and then stop recording and save the log under file.

It will be the same ones that show up in those videos I posted last week.

I must be retarded but none of the fuel trims you are referring to bar options on my cipher. would it matter that I only have a standard cable?

Mitco39 · 07-18-2014, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 09 Nismo#400

Just an update for mine I have removed the Rear O2's and it has been idling just fine now my wideband reads 14.0 - 14.9. Now I just have to remove that code that came up from that and it is looking good. Thanks for finding this fix Mitco39.

Glad it has worked out for you, let me know if you need a hand getting the codes gone. It should be as simple as just turning them off, I can include screenshots if you wish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwick

I must be retarded but none of the fuel trims you are referring to bar options on my cipher. would it matter that I only have a standard cable?

They might call it something different with cipher, it should still be able to see these PIDS however. Ill check this weekend for you.

I will probably bring the car to the track tonight and do a few more runs in her. I will also play with the hot starts tonight and see if I can find a happy medium between hot starts and lean out conditions during idling. This is if it does not storm here tonight, there is a 40% chance

jwick · 08-22-2014, 07:58 AM

Mitch - Figured I would bring this thread back to life and see how things are working since it's been over a month since you made the changes to O2 sensor removal and 'cold' settings.

How's the car running? Still have any symptoms?

Ever find a fix for the hiccup or is the going theory still that the missing PCV system is causing it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Check fuel & MAF readings like I mentioned in the other thread, another idea to help is if all of those with the problem could data log via Uprev the same paramters and post them. This will allow for some comparison and narrow what potential problems are causing it.

Still think it would be helpful if several of the BP guys could post log files of identical conditions (i.e. same parameters and idling conditions)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

I think I may have found the fix today. I believe the car switches to the "cold" fuelling tables. I copied my main table into the cold (or what uprev calls cold) and it seems like its just fine now. I will have to get more seat time on it to make sure that was indeed the issue and its not just some fluke it has not came back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

So far so good, the lean idle has more or less stopped. But a new quirk has started which I think may be related to my changes. I been around these tuning programs long enough to realize that table names dont always mean what they suggest they should mean.

For example this car switches to that "COLD" fueling table at idle under some conditions (causing the lean spikes while idling). I would assume that that fueling table might actually not so much be a cold table as it is some sort of emissions modified table on the car. Either way changing the cold table with the main table values fixed pretty much everything. However now on hot starts it will take a second or more to crank up which also means that this car may be using this as a fueling table for starting.

My solution to this is take the cranking region of the table and return it to where it was before and see if that gives me the best of two worlds.

Either way this engine is still running strong and happy at 12-13PSI of boost.

Did the modifications to the cranking table end up fixing your hot start issues?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

To just grab a quick log all you have to do is this (this is by memory so hopefully its a 100% correct, I dont have the cable with me currently to check it)

-Open Osiris Rom Editor
-Check for updates
-It will connect to the car and say ECU Ready after the updates are complete
-click logging and tracing
-On the right hand side of that window you will see all parameters you can select, if you happen to select to many it just wont log and you will be left scratching your head lol.
-I would like you to log the following;
-Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1
-Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2
-Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1
-Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 2
-MAF flow (g/sec)
-Target AFR

Hit the red circle to record and then stop recording and save the log under file.

It will be the same ones that show up in those videos I posted last week.

The more I look at the log request list above the more I think the tuner cable provides a few more options.

Without typing them all out, pg 8 of the Cipher manual recommends the following parameters to get an eTune directly from UpRev. There are obviously some not needed (speed, coolant, speed, throttle position, etc.) but would this list provide the stuff you originally asked for?

http://uprev.com/UpdateFiles/softwar...er%20Guide.pdf

I brought this back to life because for two reasons. First, I'd really like the feedback and hopefully know if this is a good fix I should add to my next retune. Second, I kind of believe that all this still ties into my having the P2A00 code for the O2 sensor.

Mitco39 · 08-22-2014, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwick

Mitch - Figured I would bring this thread back to life and see how things are working since it's been over a month since you made the changes to O2 sensor removal and 'cold' settings.

How's the car running? Still have any symptoms?

Ever find a fix for the hiccup or is the going theory still that the missing PCV system is causing it?

The idle is much much better, it still does a bit of the hunt but its 75% better I would say. It no longer sounds like its working its a$$ off just to stay running. 0 other issues related to deleting those O2s to date.

Still think it would be helpful if several of the BP guys could post log files of identical conditions (i.e. same parameters and idling conditions)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwick

Did the modifications to the cranking table end up fixing your hot start issues?

To be honest with you I have just been living with the hot start issue right now. But when I go and retune for these 3" charge pipes I will take a look at it. I believe its just overfuelling right now right in the cranking area. Starts great when cold, and starts fine when you turn it on after its been off for a short time. But if you let it sit and get heatsoaked she struggles at times. Im confident its just flooding itself. I also have not changed my plugs since going boosted and running sub 10:1 at times so its on the table to replace my plugs around the same time. Infact I should order up some today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwick

The more I look at the log request list above the more I think the tuner cable provides a few more options.

Without typing them all out, pg 8 of the Cipher manual recommends the following parameters to get an eTune directly from UpRev. There are obviously some not needed (speed, coolant, speed, throttle position, etc.) but would this list provide the stuff you originally asked for?

http://uprev.com/UpdateFiles/softwar...er%20Guide.pdf

Yes it is, sorry I never got back to you on how to get a log. I took a few screnshots and ill put them together in a mini guide for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwick

I brought this back to life because for two reasons. First, I'd really like the feedback and hopefully know if this is a good fix I should add to my next retune. Second, I kind of believe that all this still ties into my having the P2A00 code for the O2 sensor.

I am pretty confident it could very well be related to your issues with that code. Reading up on it briefly its directly related to the switching of the O2 from lean to rich, which is what the car is struggling to do with those secondary 02s fighting you.

OBDII Code P2A00 - O2 Sensor Circuit Range/Performance Bank 1 Sensor 1 | Nissanhelp.com

07-15-2014, 07:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
JARblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX Age: 44 Posts: 36,450 Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3 Rep Power: 2684441	If you already have an account, Dropbox makes it really easy to share a file or folder via http link. GaleForce and Plasmite like this. __________________ 2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic \| ARC \| CJM \| Ecutek \| FI \| Fujimura \| R2C \| SPL \| Stillen \| TWM \| Z1 \| ZSpeed \|

07-15-2014, 08:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
Plasmite Enthusiast Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 259 Drives: '12 M6 Panty Peeler Rep Power: 13	Dropbox is an excellent choice. Use it for online DJing and have access to unlimited music __________________ WISHLIST

07-15-2014, 09:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mitco39 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 2,089 Drives: 40th 370z Rep Power: 132	To be fair I think its quite easy to overlook the cold fueling table as well it says cold on the label. I initially did and then just decided to give it a try anyways knowing that sometimes the labels dont always mean what you think they mean. Heck cold could be just low enough of a coolant temp that at idle the car cools down just enough to hit it where its colder (without knowing the rational behind the code its just a guessing game). All I can say is mine has not leaned out once since. I still have to find time to play with the hot starts (I tune most evenings during the week so I dont have much time to play with my own toys). Jwick, send me a uprev log of both your sort term, long term, target afr, and rpm if you would like me to take a look at it for you. Ill get a video of mine idling nice once I take it out next time. wheee!, jwick and GaleForce like this. __________________ 2007 Chevy Duramax - EFILive Tuned By Me 2010 40th W/ Nav - Boosted Performance - UpRev Tuned By Me The Mrs. Ride -2012 335XI N55 BMW - Cobb Tuned By Me, Built by her My Build --> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...39s-build.html

07-15-2014, 09:26 AM	#6 (permalink)
GaleForce A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 21,749 Drives: Varis Arising II Rep Power: 51865	Good job Mitch. Now I need to find time to log my car. __________________ >>>GaleForce's Build<<< >>>FaceBook @3GsCustoms<<<>>>Instagram @GaleForce370z<<< Varis Kamikaze-Z

07-15-2014, 09:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
Mitco39 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 2,089 Drives: 40th 370z Rep Power: 132	Jason, If you get time send me the log if you would like. Its not telling me anything about the tune so I wouldn't be stepping on R/Ts toes or anything like that. I would just be more or less curious to see if your car is doing the same as mine. __________________ 2007 Chevy Duramax - EFILive Tuned By Me 2010 40th W/ Nav - Boosted Performance - UpRev Tuned By Me The Mrs. Ride -2012 335XI N55 BMW - Cobb Tuned By Me, Built by her My Build --> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...39s-build.html

07-14-2014, 08:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
Cell A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,449 Drives: A Garbage Truck Rep Power: 22	I logged my idle and was wonder what is a good third party site that allows me to share this file.

07-15-2014, 10:40 AM	#9 (permalink)
Mitco39 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 2,089 Drives: 40th 370z Rep Power: 132	To just grab a quick log all you have to do is this (this is by memory so hopefully its a 100% correct, I dont have the cable with me currently to check it) -Open Osiris Rom Editor -Check for updates -It will connect to the car and say ECU Ready after the updates are complete -click logging and tracing -On the right hand side of that window you will see all parameters you can select, if you happen to select to many it just wont log and you will be left scratching your head lol. -I would like you to log the following; -Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 -Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2 -Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 -Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 2 -MAF flow (g/sec) -Target AFR Hit the red circle to record and then stop recording and save the log under file. It will be the same ones that show up in those videos I posted last week. __________________ 2007 Chevy Duramax - EFILive Tuned By Me 2010 40th W/ Nav - Boosted Performance - UpRev Tuned By Me The Mrs. Ride -2012 335XI N55 BMW - Cobb Tuned By Me, Built by her My Build --> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...39s-build.html

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