I want to ask, since everyone mentions this as the big item to do, but what exactly will be seeing if/when VVEL is unlocked? What is holding it from being unlocked, just allow the system to let you adjust the VVEL system?

Awesome! :excited:

Theoretically, if you can adjust the VVEL, then it'll be just like getting a new cam :leghump:

You would also be able to adjust the cam timing as well so you could reduce overlap for F/I.

Remember the VVEL only affects the intake cam, not the exhaust cam. To get the maximum benefit from VVEL tuning you would also have to tighten the fulcrum screws to increase the maximum intake cam lift from .450" to .500". Duration would increase from 280 to 300 degrees.

How long is it going to take Cobb to get the damn canned maps done? They have been working on these things for almost a year now. All I keep seeing in the advertisements is that the maps will be coming soon. What decade is soon? Are they waiting to see if the world makes it through 2012 or what?

Hey Cobb, produce the damn maps or :gtfo2:

We are not working on the maps, we are trying to figure out the VVEL system. The system is very very impressive and the logic behind it is very complex. It's not as easy as finding a fuel table or rev limiter .

Joe

As soon as I find out the maps are out, I will be buying this. Hopefully that is soon, lol.

Screw the damn maps, as soon as the vvel is cracked i'll be buying it and having a local shop near me that tunes GTR's with the AP do it (weirdly enough they are not a dealer). They have also made the most power on the genesis so far out of the whole country (not that that makes me happy but Luke is qualified).

Maybe this has been asked before, but I haven't seen it.

If I buy an Access Port today and Cobb cracks this VVEL, will I be able to update my Access Port so I can use VVEL maps?

Yes - updated maps from Cobb are always free to Access Port owners.

Getting my car cobb tuned at Altered Atmostphere this coming Thursday. Pretty excited :excited:

good luck man... make sure to post the results when you do... look forward to hearing how it goes... I want to get mine tuned damnit.

yeah I am really ready for the VVEL to be cracked as well. Once this happens im sure Cobb sales will soar, which I am sure is why they are focusing on it so much. They really should have maps out already, it is getting a little silly--especially for those who purchased a year ago with COBBS, '370z maps comming soon' bit.

I'm not knocking cobb at all but I'm just curious as to how much has actually been going into the VVEL or if they just have a lot on there plate and aren't focusing much on it.... I know nothing but it just seems like even if you had only one person focusing on this they would have something to show us by now... Idk though, who knows...

I am going to make an assumption (especially considering I use to have a Cobb for my STi) Cobb probably isn’t as focus on the 370z platform as much as they are in Subaru and Mitsubishi.

When I had one for my STi, they would come out with new ROM versions like twice a year. Cobb gains are huge with cars with Turbo’s where as our naturally aspirated Z’s have more subtle gains. If I was Cobb, I would do the same. They need to focus most of their time/energy on the market niche that will provide the most profit. When you talk with various tuners (least the couple I have talked with) they all have nothing but good comments for the guys at Cobb.

If you watch the explanation video’s on the VVEL system…it doesn’t take a genius to realize it is a really complicated system. I don’t doubt that you could do serious engine damage if you tune that system incorrectly so the Cobb guys are probably crossing there T’s and doting there I’s and making their tuning technology is what it needs to be to before they release it to the public. If they didn’t do enough testing and released a product that was f****** up peoples engines then there company would get serious bad press. Not to mention…I don’t want to damage my 40k car for a 10hp pre-mature VVEL tune.

Either way….I have been eagerly awaiting the VVEL tune technology to be released as well. I don’t feel like waiting any longer for my first tune so I decided to go ahead and I have scheduled time with Altered Atmosphere. When VVEL tuning is released and if the gains warrant another tune…then so be it.

Was there any development for the NISMO ECU yet? As I stated earlier, I am good with letting them use my ECU data to do what they need to do, but I won't be available until late April at the earliest.

They have had my data since 18th December still reads as a unsupported vehicle

yeah I really don't think thats the issue. I think they are just focusing all of the limited resources they have for the 370z all towards the VVEL. Kind of silly to me...

Agreed that Cobb focuses their priority on their main lines... turbo cars in general, then Subarus and Mitsus. Recently, they dove into the Mazdaspeed3/6 market (I have a Mazdaspeed6 and we've been waiting for Cobb FOREVER). When they finally did, people jumped on Cobb AccessPORTs like there was no tomorrow.

It's safe, easy, fast, and very efficient when it comes to power gains. This is why WRX/STi people love them.

We've been selling 370Z Cobb APs in the sponsor classifieds section for a few months now.
How many have we sold? Answer - 8
That's nothing compared to the number we've sold for other cars (in the dozens).

If 370Z enthusiasts realize the true benefits and effectiveness of the Cobb AP, they will see more maps developed for them, from Stage 1 basic intake bolt on, to Stage 4+ upgraded twin turbo reflash maps. They aren't that huge of a company, so they can't put as much time into their R&D as they'd like. They are thinking smart, and I would too.

If more people purchase the Cobb APs, and email them more, we'll see more maps, and an decrease in time it takes to develop these maps as well.

Just my .02 ;)

Regards,
AJ
ECS Motorsports

The problem is, it's hard to justify spending the money on one until they crack VVEL or at least make some maps. I personally wouldn't spend the money on the AP then go pay to get protuned and only wind up with a few extra ponies. Just doesn't make sense. If they at least had some maps available so that we could get a little more bang for our buck more people might jump on it.

By the way, I used to have an AP for my STi.

hell if i get a comitment from them that they will crack the VVEL or cvtc i'll snatch it up now to fund the rd, i contacted AAM about getting there unit with their tune but they haven't contacted me back and their website still says it's 695 and screw that.

Travis

How about a refund? Bought mine almost a year ago and in disguest, unloaded my $$ dyno tuning programming converting the ECU back to stock.

Finally figured out why the car got such poor gas mileage...... It's the AccessPort. Not really one that into gas millage, but on a trip noticed the car was getting less than 19 mpg on the hwy doing 85-90. OK, me driving fast. By happenstance, the AccessPort was in the car and used it for something it actually kinda does do (even though it's not accurate)...... read the 02 settings. They were pig rich. Pulled over, downloaded the stock tune and the car jumped 4-4.5 mpg better still driving the same speed with normal looking 02 readings.

Kept the stock tune in the car for a while and tried downloading a newer version hoping the bug was fixed. Reprogrammed the ECU and this time doing a road trip to a seminar down in Houston. Same story..... The Accessport negatively effects gas mileage causing the car to run pig rich. How much additional wear does this put on the cylinder walls and rings Travis? Guessing a fair amount as it's washing the lubrication away.

The bottom line is between poor quality from Stillen, things that don't work like the Accessport and grossly over rated items like the Stillen headers, I'm selling the car.

What kind of fun is this when expensive items that are suppose to work...don't.

Refund?? I'll gladly take one and forget about all the dyno time money I spent.

No offense, but your car should not be running that badly, the person who did your tune is to blame not Cobb (unless you went directly to Cobb to have your car tuned).

or they can look on here and see how many people are waiting for their maps.;)

Dude...give them a call. I have talked to two different guys from AAM and they seem pretty cool. They never called me back either when I asked them to so perhaps you should just call em again. They may not have updated there site also since Cobb dropped there price last month.

They will be tuning my car on Thursday...can't wait.

I talked to Rob today and it is still good to go on the AP plus AAM tune for $500
I'm looking to purchase this shortly as well, and the mroe good things I hear about how beneficial it is, makes me want it more.

Your getting the AP and tune for 500?

Cobb in Plano Tx did the original tune and I tweaked it on three dyno tuning occasions after finding the car was pulling out timing and tried to correct the Cobb tune.

No offense back, but you need to learn how tuning software should work. Changing the fuel/air ratio to optimal during acceleration has no effect on driving fuel tables with other software I've used like LT1.edit and HP Tuner. Your tweaking apples and oranges. The computer is suppose to be looking for certain air/fuel ratios and correcting itself to them. Obviously this is not working correctly with the AccessPort.

AJ

Being you're in the business then you know a deaf, dumb, blind person can play mean pinball tuning a forced induction vehicle. They are tremendously more responsive to tuning especially if you can tweak the boost. More comparing apples to oranges and N/A to forced induction falls into that category. It ain't and never will be the same.


[/QUOTE]We've been selling 370Z Cobb APs in the sponsor classifieds section for a few months now.
How many have we sold? Answer - 8
That's nothing compared to the number we've sold for other cars (in the dozens).

If 370Z enthusiasts realize the true benefits and effectiveness of the Cobb AP, they will see more maps developed for them, from Stage 1 basic intake bolt on, to Stage 4+ upgraded twin turbo reflash maps. They aren't that huge of a company, so they can't put as much time into their R&D as they'd like. They are thinking smart, and I would too.

If more people purchase the Cobb APs, and email them more, we'll see more maps, and an decrease in time it takes to develop these maps as well.

Just my .02 ;)

Regards,
AJ
ECS Motorsports[/QUOTE]


My issue here is fourfold.

1. No company should be selling a product until it is ready and Cobb openly solicited 370Z business indicating they were ready to sell the unit. They originally scanned my car prior to get some of the initial ECU information. I purchased the unit only after they indicated it was ready for sale. Thinking smart is one thing, being ethical and doing the right thing is another.

We are all human, that is not to say there will not be bugs in the first units built or improvements coming, however it simply should at least be able to do basic tunes if your openly asking people to purchase your product.

2. Let me get this right......You're on the supply/profit side asking people to spend money for something that doesn't work correctly hoping Cobb will put efforts into making it work correctly so you can sell more? How about just sending Cobb some of your cash and maybe they will make it work correctly so you can sell more of them.

3. Not a fan of canned tunes as they can be spot on, or way off. You need the specific vehicle on a dyno to objectively measure the gains and parameters contributing to making the gains. Again canned tunes do have certain have applications however, being once sponsored by a dyno shop it's something I've literally seen hundreds of times.

4. This goes back to tuning N/A applications and forced induction applications. Unless the factory tune is way off or the car is heavily modded (cams, heads, compression, strokers, etc,) you typically will not see drastic changes after tuning. Believe there might be an unrealistic expectation that simply ain't gonna be there.

Truthfully, if all the software did for me was fuel/air @ wot, timing, rev limit and speed limit w/o adversely effecting anything else..I'd be a happy camper. Being one of the original people to purchase the unit and 9-10 months later still not working and finding it causes issues.......time to painfully say "no mas."

The physicians creed is: "Above all, do no harm" This adverise effect on driving fuel/air ain't cutting it in my book at all.

I know how dyno tuning works, but they are not just suppose to tune top end power only. They should be doing different pulls, tuning all sides of the car, performance, cruising, etc. You mentioned you made your own edits, was this before or after you were having bad MPG?

Dude... No one else seems to be having the same problems you are. And don't get me wrong...I am sorry you have been so unsuccessful.

Have you tried called the guys at Cobb about this? I doubt they would give you the big F U.

Altered Atmosphere, among other tuners have had plenty of success using the AP on the 370z. Altered Atmosphere told me that they have recieved several important AP updates over the past couple of months. Perhaps the issues you are having has been fixed?? Dunno...

Wow...haha...I just logged in because I was going to post something very similar to what you just did.

I've had my AP for nearly a year now and I feel like I've been cheated out of $700 (well technically only about $550 because I could have bought a good ScanGauge for about $150 that does what my AP currently does). I do have hope that COBB will eventually figure out the VVEL system and fix the other problems, and release staged maps but, honestly, my patience is running a bit thin. I'm actually thinking of trying to return the item or sell it to some 350Z owner.

COBB - if you do read this, please know that there are actually A LOT MORE 370Z owners that would buy the AP if it had staged maps that showed some good gains. I think figuring out the VVEL system, along with fixing the tuning issues, is worth putting some more resources into, esp. since G37 owners will also benefit from this (and who knows what other Nissan/Infiniti cars the VVEL technology will be used in).

To be absolutely honest, did not purchase the car for gas mileage and really never check it. It was basically an accident that I discovered it on an impromptu unplanned urgent family business trip. So when did it start?? Damned if I know, but I downloaded updated software and checked it again to verify what was going on.

Not a professional tuner, but I used to hang around a bunch who were to the point where I'm pretty confident doing basic tuning by all means. When the car was tuned at Cobb I spoke extensively with Calvin whom does their tuning on what tables they use and what parameters they look for. Everything he said was consistent with what I've seen in the past and basic tuning 101.

Calvin recommended for open loop conditions (WOT) the primary fuel table be adjusted and for finer tuning where the primary fuel table is not adequate, tweaking the MAF tables. In my experience the MAF tables can be very tricky plus the primary fuel tables seemed to give the desired effect so the MAF tables that can effect drivability and fuel economy, were not touched.

This comes directly out of the Cobb AcessTUNER tuning manual:

"Primary Fuel"

This table is referenced by RPM and Theoretical Pulsewidth (Engine Load) The tables values represent the A/F ratio you wish to run during open loop conditions. Doing so will normally not result in an appreciable decrease in fuel economy since these conditions are only met only when driving the car aggressively.

During idle and cruising, the ECU uses a Closed Loop strategy designed to optimize fuel economy, not power."

The only other tables that were touched were primary ignition A and B which I found from logging did not like adjustments more than 1 or 2 degrees. This also has no effect on fuel economy.

In my experience basic bolt on moded cars do not need drivability tuning. When you get into more radical cams and high compressions, playing with timing segments and driving A/F tables can smooth out driveability plus help pass emissions tests. Basic bolt on cars.....no fricky way do you need to.

So.....you tell me what magic does Cobb have that you think I don't I have? How would you tune the car?

[QUOTE=drisko;426089]

I've had my AP for nearly a year now and I feel like I've been cheated out of $700 (well technically only about $550 because I could have bought a good ScanGauge for about $150 that does what my AP currently does). I do have hope that COBB will eventually figure out the VVEL system and fix the other problems, and release staged maps but, honestly, my patience is running a bit thin. I'm actually thinking of trying to return the item or sell it to some 350Z owner.QUOTE]

Share the exact same feeling. Converted the car back to stock programming and thrown away the manuals.. When do you say "enough is enough?" For me....now. Honest to god a nice guy, just fed up with all the BS.

[QUOTE=Denny McLain;426814]And what they are selling for $450 now, yes you were ripped off a bit. They are still making a good profit at 450 so they made a killing at 700 and still no maps. I agree that they should have waited till they had maps before putting it on sale. Thats why I dont always buy aftermarket things when they first come out, I wait till others have it too and the price wars begin. Now some things come out with good intro prices but most are just trying to make a killing off us in these forums cuz they know we want them NOW.

:iagree:

While I am glad someone is working on VVEL, in the meantime I think they should have released maps without any VVEL work to help keep people happy until then. Plus I am sure they could have charged an "upgrade" fee for the new map with VVEL unlocked.

I am dismayed to hear about your experience with the AccessPORT and I hope we can resolve this for you. I was able to pull up your dyno graph from Plano and do not see anything that would lead me to believe that your car was running overly rich when it left the Plano facility.

http://surgeline.cobbtuning.com/dyno...rgb2=204000000

The data displayed by the AccessPORT is the actual reading from the stock O2 sensors and is not any more or less accurate than the sensor itself.

That said, what AFR was the tuned map reading? What do you consider pig rich? Your graph shows an AFR of around 12.5:1 tapering to 12.2:1 which is just about perfect for an NA car. Cylinder wash shouldn't be a concern till about 9:1, which is beyond the range of the stock sensor to read and if this were the case, I would start leaning towards a mechanical issue of some kind.

According to your post, the stock map ran leaner on cruise than the tuned map and your MPG jumped 4-4.5 mpg, were you able to log this and tell what was going on with the car? You state that you then downloaded a new version of the AccessTUNER software or Firmware hoping that we had fixed a bug to deal with your poor fuel economy. The firmware and software do not impact the calibrations in any way; what map did you reinstall on your car? Was this the original calibration from Plano or the stock calibration? Were you able to datalog the car during this time to see what changes had been made and how the car was behaving?

The AccessPORT unit itself does not actively alter the calibration while the vehicle is in operation, it can only read or write data so if a stock calibration was installed, you should not have seen any change in performance. If you were using the calibration from Plano, this too would remain unaltered by the software or firmware update. Can you tell me what new software you downloaded?


Do you have graphs and datalogs from when you tweaked the map? In what way and how was the car pulling timing? Were you seeing knock correction under high-load or in normal cruising and low-load conditions?

Were you altering the calibration that Plano created for your car or did you start with the stock calibration? These cars are very sensitive to changes to the MAF sensor housing/intake and MAF calibrations. If you were using a stock map and not altering the MAF calibration correctly, this could be the reason your car was not running properly. Again, graphs and logs would be beneficial to help understand where the issue was.

The calibration you recieved was for performance driving it would appear. If you are in need of an "economy map" we can certainly address that for you so that you have a map for performance drivng and one for highway driving, that is one of the advantages of the AccessPORT.

We have found that adding modifications, especially to the intake system of any modern, MAF-based car, can drastically alter the way the car behaves. While in the past you could make drastic changes to a vehicle without negatively impacting driveability and performance, we have found that this is no longer the case, even with basic bolt-ons. Even the simple addition of an intake can drastically alter the way a modern car, such as the 370Z, runs.

We are more than happy to take another look at your car and we would like to get you back on the road with the car behaving to your satisfaction. You are always welcome to bring your car by our Plano facility if you are having issues with your tune. Barring that, if you can supply us with datalogs or graphs from your other tuning sessions, we can be of more service to making your car perform up to your standards.

Travis
COBB Tuning

That is what you call service and why I'm getting a Cobb AP this week.

Hell yea.... Thats what i am saying... This is a great company and even though there product still has some bugs to be worked out, they are more than willing to lend a helping hand.