Sorry! I didn't realize you had posted something directed toward me. The answer.....yes, and in fact I reporgrammed the car today leaning out the top end slightly. Problem is mine is a six speed but your welcome to my fuel tables.

I'll make it as easy as I can:

Stock fuel tables

2.6 3.5 5.5 8.3 9.6 11.5 14.3 16.6
2800 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 .80
3200 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 .80
4000 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 .90 .86 .80 .80
5200 1.00 1.00 1.00 .85 .84 .82 .80 .80
6000 1.00 1.00 .90 .84 .83 .80 .80 .80
6400 1.00 .92 .90 .82 .78 .77 . 77 .77
7000 1.00 .89 .88 .87 .87 .77 .77 .77
7200 1.00 .89 .85 .77 .73 .72 .72 .72


Cobb tables for the same mods only me adding 1% 6000 and above:

2.6 3.5 5.5 8.3 9.6 11.5 14.3 16.6
2800 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 .97 .92 .89
3200 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 .97 .91 .89
4000 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 .91 .90
5200 1.00 1.00 1.00 91 .88 . .91 .91
6000 1.00 1.00 .90 .89 .89 .90 .91 .91
6400 1.00 .92 .90 .88 .88 .88 .91 .91
7000 1.00 .89 .88 .87 .87 .88 .90 .90
7200 1.00 .89 .88 .87 .87 .87 .88 .88

Here ya go. Adjusting the rev limit and speed limit should be a slam dunk.

Starting to get a little deeper into the tune and how the Cobb system works. As I become more and more familiar with it, I'm starting to warm up to it a little more. (still wish I could play with the onset of the fans.......hint, if anyone is listening.)

When the car was tuned at Cobb they did not touch the timing tables and again, each car is different and these cars may may not like much timing. The stock timing tables still look very conservative to me. I logged a couple of second gear passes and the car is pulling out timing in the midrange and even more so when it gets hotter (like a 203 degree water temp vs 184). For poops n grins to see what would happen, increased the timing in the same range that is being pulled out and made a couple more runs. Still pulled out timing from what's in the table, but the log showed an increase in timing in that range.

The computer might be seeing what it thinks is a lean spot and pulling timing, so I added a bit of fuel where it's pulling timing out plus increased the overall timing by 2-3 degrees. Will drive the car and let the computer learn and also to see what's going on.

Hope to eat my prior words as in the past there wasn't much gained in timing ,but these tables are almost half what a Ltx small block is tuned for.

I'm dewarming already. What's up wid dis?

After adding timing, tweaking the fuel slightly, driving it for a couple of days so it can learn some. Today, going out logging a few 0-80 runs...... the logs look almost exactly the same as before the tweaks. Just how in the hell do you make these cars respond?

Somebody! Anybody! Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi!

Going to make another trip to Cobb this week and see what they say . In the meantime, try and reset the ECU to see what happens. This really is getting much more difficult than I thought it would be. I'm back to lost all over again.

What good is any software if the car doesn't respond to the changes?

does the 370 have factory widebands? i know some cars do now.

the Z has had widebands since 2004.5 model

I think there are just some settings that are not accessible that owuld help tune and neutralize conditions while you tune that affect timing.

we played around with the intake temps and actually put an adjustable resistor in the line to control the temps the ECU would see and you could see 5 degrees being taken out as it got hotter, so without knowing if there are similar tables for oil temps we knew we may be fighting a tough battle to get consistent results. It is a good product/concept just needs a little fine tuning to get more control over what is going on to be able to tune and know you have consistent results.

Agree a thousand percent as I've had an opportunity to study the logs and mull over it some more. Very perceptive and smart move on your part by adding the resistor and that shows real experience. Excellant!

Not logged the intake temp but what I noticed is when the water temp was lower, the car ran more timing on its own. Initially I thought it was me adding some timing, but something is obviously overriding the timing settings. The tuning timing tables at higher rpm says 26 degrees, but I've seen 28 degrees. Why would it be more? Pretty crazy.

On other software I've used, in particular there are offsets on the fuel for water temps. Guessing Nissan has tables that does the same for timing. Again, just for giggles I changed the Ignition Hi Det tables to see what happens

For right now, being the ECU pretty much does what it wants, think I'll just set the Accessport aside until they make a little more progress. Save my dyno $$ for when the sun is shining so I can actually make a little hay for a change.

Again, very perceptive and excellant post.

Interesting....When I called Cobb about the fuel/air being different than the dyno's wideband, they said they were narrow band. No wonder they they cost $425.00 each.

Thanks, I think that once they crack those other tables that are coming into effect you will be able to tune and know what you are getting.

yeah the front ones which provide the feedback to the ECU are wideband and the rears are still narrowband

The vast majority of cars make better power at lower temps and I'm very disappointed there are no provisions to turn the fans on earlier. Guess it's a moot point until a lower temp thermostat is available but I just ordered an oil cooler to see if that helps. Guessing the timing is linked to water temp, but I could be wrong. The new oil cooler should help settle that some. The main issue is obviously software development.

I saw the length of the Stillen Gen 3 tubes laying on top of the engine as being an issue for intake temps and I wrapped them in a double layer of heat barrier hoping it would help. Think the main problem is the filters sit high and get a lot of heat from the radiator and the sun baking on the front. Going to run some duct work to the filters to see it that helps. Cooler weather will answer that one.

Full of ghetto fixes, but so far no cigar.

yeap the intake temps are an issue on the dyno as you usually don't simulate 100 mph wind speeds and also the car sitting while making changes allows the tubes and sensors to heat soak bringing the temps up, the intake temp sensor is part of the passenger side MAF

Denny McLain: check out the modshack air vents for Stillen CAI. His is not for Gen 3 but minor connections make it work for Gen 3. 4 flanges, 4 clamps. LE 3 feet of tubing. This is only additional item for bolt-on Stillen intake, headers, HFC and CBE. But without tuning, still waiting on software, car is running fine. No lean etc. I have to give points to the vent intakes.

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll check it out. Made it through college by sitting next to the smart kids......any ideas are welcome and copying what others have done is OK in my book. Did order the oil cooler and will do it myself, while the front end is off we'll try the ductwork trick.

Literally out the door going to Cobb this morning as doing headers kicked my butt so bad, I'm going to have them install an under drive pulley. Obviously will touch bases regarding the timing issues post what they say.

Thanks again!!

After about a half an hour talking with Calvin while at Cobb, the news is nothing we haven't figured out. The timing tables basically don't do anything. He did say they were getting very close and the variable timing was causing the delay.

I'm going back to the origional Cobb tune and play with the fuel/air a tad to see if it's going lean in a coule spots causing it to pull timing out.

Also...found out you can hook your laptop directly to the ECU using the tuning program and that is the way to log as you get more data vs using the AccessPort.

Well, I finally got my car tuned at Cobb, its amazing now. I lost like 7 hp at the peak of the RPM range, but the gains in hp and tq EVERYwhere else make up for it. The car is much smoother revving (all the way to 8000) and it just pulls so hard. They said they took off the governer too, but I havent had a chance to test that out.

I ordered the GTM oil cooler and test pips and I'm going to go back to cobb when Neil calls to let me know about the variable timing tuning.

Can you post up the chart?

Ya, lets see what that bad boy did. Be sure to include your AFR. Did you you do anyt logging? If so, love to see the intake temps, timing, etc.

Just trying to make sense of all this. You shouldn't have lost anything...period. That's not how its suppose to work.

I'm on a laptop and i dont have access to a scanner. I can have them up very soon.

I havent logged anything with the accessport, I'm still learning this one. i've only used the ones for the Subarus.

Please scan and post. Just read the manual as logging is super easy and do a second gear pull to rev limit in 2nd gear two or three times and post your timing curve. Don't sweat the little stuff as I had to learn how to do it also and it was surprising easy. Hint....a cave man can do it.

Here why.........

1. My car lost midrange power after tuned at Cobbs in Plano

2. Later dyno pulls at RPM to verify Cobbs output and AFR to see if the car would learn and if it would change on it's own. Cobbs post tune dyno curve and RPMs dyno had pretty much the same curve and AFR.

4. As posted above....found out the hard way the timing tables don't work.

5. Been busting my balls to make sure it wasn't intake temps, water temps, oil temps, or lean under 4000 rpm. Added a new oil cooler, did some air cooling tricks so the Gen 3 intake wasn't an issue and pulled out some fuel below 4000. My current intake temps vs ambient are less than 8 degrees difference plus as your aware, (I'm in Dallas) the air temps are very good right now. Low 70's.

Logging today.......Whether it be the new oil cooler, me tweaking the intake temps or just weather....... The car is not pulling out timing throughout the range, it still is however pulling 3-4 degrees between 4500-6000.

Checked the curve of my baseline pulls and my assumption is that before the Cobb tune, it wasn't pulling out timing because the shape had changed. (No dip before)

In the process of e-mailing Calvin my run logs of today. But that is two in a row with more than likely the same issue. Humm......This just might be an issue.

Here is what a typical third gear pull readout looks like: (Sorry if it fits funny, it is what it is when tying to copy and past)

Run 4 Rev 3 Cobb Map - fuel tweaked (Sept 14, 2009)


Seconds (sec)Coolant Temp ( F)Ign Advance ()RPM (RPM)Mass Airflow (g/s) Vehicle Speed (mph)Air Fuel Ratio (AFR)A/F Correct (%)
5.95 183.2 14 4050 173.14 51.57 14.77 100
6.02 183.2 18 4150 177.32 51.64 11.11 100
6.06 183.2 19 4100 172.93 52.94 11.32 100
6.14 183.2 19 4050 174.14 53.13 11.52 100
6.19 183.2 19 4150 171.66 52.75 11.82 100
6.23 183.2 19 4200 179.85 53.13 11.71 100
6.32 183.2 20 4200 181.01 53.81 11.93 100
6.4 183.2 22 4212 180.28 54.31 11.95 100
6.48 183.2 24 4300 185.91 54.8 11.81 100
6.59 183.2 24 4312 188.29 55.49 11.82 100
6.67 183.2 24 4375 188.23 55.99 11.89 100
6.74 183.2 24 4412 189.7 56.67 11.96 100
6.78 183.2 24 4450 191.5 57.23 12.01 100
6.87 183.2 24 4475 191.93 57.41 12.12 100
6.95 183.2 24 4525 194 57.91 12.19 100
7.02 183.2 24 4562 196.92 58.53 12.08 100
7.08 183.2 24 4612 198.55 59.09 11.99 100
7.13 183.2 23 4637 201.09 59.53 11.98 100
7.22 183.2 23 4650 200.16 59.84 12 100
7.3 183.2 23 4700 203.7 60.34 11.96 100
7.37 183.2 23 4737 206.02 60.96 12.08 100
7.43 183.2 23 4800 203.44 61.45 12.15 100
7.5 183.2 23 4825 207.62 61.83 12 100
7.53 183.2 22 4862 212.07 62.45 12.14 100
7.63 183.2 22 4875 210.44 62.63 12.09 100
7.7 183.2 22 4912 213.1 63.07 12.19 100
7.76 183.2 22 4962 217.62 63.63 12.03 100
7.86 183.2 22 4975 216.42 63.94 12.13 100
7.93 183.2 21 5037 220.88 64.62 12.1 100
7.99 183.2 21 5075 225.45 65.24 12.07 100
8.07 183.2 21 5100 223.74 65.62 12.07 100
8.14 183.2 20 5137 227.54 66.11 12.03 100
8.2 183.2 20 5187 231.31 66.67 12.03 100
8.29 183.2 20 5225 229.99 66.98 12 100
8.37 183.2 20 5250 234.26 67.61 12.13 100
8.44 183.2 20 5287 232.54 68.04 12.13 100
8.5 183.2 20 5350 235.78 68.54 12.1 100
8.58 183.2 20 5362 237.73 68.91 12.09 100
8.62 183.2 20 5387 230.92 69.47 12.03 100
8.7 183.2 20 5400 236.01 69.53 12.02 100
8.78 183.2 21 5462 239.47 70.15 12.12 100
8.88 183.2 21 5500 239.9 70.9 11.98 100
8.97 183.2 21 5537 243.37 71.27 12.11 100
9.05 183.2 21 5600 244.67 71.83 12.1 100
9.12 183.2 21 5625 246.01 72.39 12.21 100
9.18 183.2 22 5662 247.07 72.95 12.07 100
9.27 183.2 22 5687 246.22 73.26 12.06 100
9.35 183.2 22 5737 250.19 73.82 12.07 100
9.45 183.2 22 5775 253.39 74.38 12.21 100
9.53 183.2 22 5825 253.57 74.94 12.13 100
9.6 183.2 23 5862 253.5 75.43 12.17 100
9.66 183.2 23 5912 257 76.06 12.12 100
9.75 183.2 23 5937 257.87 76.43 12.23 100
9.83 183.2 23 5975 261.36 76.93 12.11 100
9.93 183.2 24 6012 260.65 77.48 12.17 100
10.01 183.2 24 6050 267.49 77.98 12.28 100
10.08 183.2 24 6112 266.4 78.67 12.26 100
10.14 183.2 24 6137 268.79 79.1 12.47 100
10.23 183.2 24 6162 268.79 79.29 12.34 100
10.31 183.2 24 6212 268.79 79.91 12.2 100
10.38 183.2 25 6250 268.79 80.41 12.2 100
10.44 183.2 25 6300 268.79 80.96 12.18 100
10.52 183.2 25 6437 268.79 81.4 12.24 100
10.56 183.2 26 6375 268.79 82.58 12.26 100
10.63 183.2 25 6325 268.79 82.95 12.39 100
10.67 183.2 25 6387 268.79 82.33 12.35 100
10.75 183.2 25 6437 268.79 82.27 12.43 100
10.83 183.2 26 6437 268.79 83.2 12.38 100
10.93 183.2 26 6512 268.79 83.7 12.34 100
11.01 183.2 26 6537 268.79 84.32 12.46 100
11.08 183.2 26 6575 268.79 84.75 12.42 100
11.14 183.2 26 6612 268.79 85.19 12.4 100
11.23 183.2 26 6637 268.79 85.56 12.34 100
11.31 183.2 26 6675 268.79 85.94 12.26 100
11.41 183.2 26 6725 268.79 86.68 12.29 100
11.49 183.2 26 6762 268.79 87.12 12.25 100
11.56 183.2 26 6800 268.79 87.55 12.22 100
11.62 183.2 26 6837 268.79 88.17 12.25 100
11.71 183.2 26 6862 268.79 88.42 12.28 100
11.79 183.2 25 6900 268.79 88.92 12.26 100
11.89 183.2 25 6937 268.79 89.54 12.28 100
11.97 183.2 25 6987 268.79 90.04 12.07 100
12.01 183.2 24 7037 268.79 90.53 12.2 100
12.09 183.2 24 7050 268.79 90.66 12.25 100
12.17 183.2 25 7075 268.79 91.4 12.45 100
12.27 183.2 26 7125 268.79 91.84 12.58 100
12.36 183.2 27 7150 268.79 92.21 12.51 100
12.4 183.2 27 7150 222.21 92.77 11.74 100

Any significance to the fact that your MAF has a constant reading from ~6150rpms onward? During that period you have increased actual roadspeed by 13mph.

And according to this thread, that would mean that your MAF is seeing roughly 474cfm of flow.

Which begs the question: is the MAF reading a combined reading, or what?

I don't have a frickin clue. Didn't notice it untill you pointed it out. Also, sent e-mails to three people at Cobb and so far nothing back.

Why hasn't COBB released any base maps yet!? The current firmware is still technically the 350Z version...still has the 350Z image and model description is "350Z".

Wish COBB would at least give us an ETA on when the 370Z is going to be "officially" supported. I just called them today and they couldn't give me a date or even if they had made any progress on it.

Yeah, COBB isn't doing much for their reputation amongst 370Z owners, are they? :shakes head:

Does anybody have a cobb map for a 370 Z . 7AT with the full stillen package ?
I have the berk cats instead of the stillen cats.

thanks

no, but they're kickin *** with the GTR right now. The cobb is like the stillen G3s of the GTR...everybody must have! sucks that its not working with the 370z as of now. Im sure when all is sorted out, it will be a great product. right now, i just think they are putting their focus elsewhere...like the GTR

do it do it

LOL don't how you can resist, we just tuned another GT-R to 545AWHP on the mustang dyno, what a beast

As a GTR owner I can tell you that life is not the same since the Cobb AP. Its a must have for any GT-R owner. Huge gains to be had in just an AP and midpipe. That said, I am waiting for good results on the 370Z.

Because it doesn't work as of yet. Think you answered yourself below.

[/QUOTE]Wish COBB would at least give us an ETA on when the 370Z is going to be "officially" supported. I just called them today and they couldn't give me a date or even if they had made any progress on it.[/QUOTE]

Coming from a surgical product development background, understand a few spit balls are thrown at ya at times and it's hard to establish true timelines. Sure they are trying.

My impression is they are a pretty stand-up bunch. However, Cobbs really needs to be a bit more forthright as I really did not need an oil cooler and spent a lot of time lowering my intake temps trying to eliminate that as an issue. Solved a problem that really wasn't a problem, not really fair if ya know what I mean.

Finally got a response back from Neil Bywater at Cobb:

"Denny, we are Still working on updates for the 370Z and I know it can be frustrating but it is a brand new platform. Calvin has been communicating with the engineers in Utah and we will have answers and reasons why the ecu is doing what it is doing as soon as possible. Thank you for working with us.

Neil"

Do what? It doesn't work yet. It's kinda like the old phrase: If if's and buts were candy and nuts, we would all have a Merry Christmas." Right now it's a lump of coal that hopefully will turn into a diamond.

Plus, as probably everyone reading this string knows; tuning works if the tuning program works and forced induction cars are exponentially more responsive to tuning.

I was referring to ssqpolo and his GT-R not his 370Z, I agree to wait on the 370Z, although we are going to use the accessport on the 370Z Twin Turbo we are just finishing up, which should work since we will be taking timing out and not trying to add it to get more power as in NA.

boosted cars are much easier to get power out of, just turn up the boost and turn down the timing and you are golden, well a little more involved but you get it

The AccessPort for whatever reasons takes out midrange timing on its own. 1-3 degrees between 4500 and 6000.

After spending a whole bunch of time trying to tie the strings together to no avail, finally figured out there is nothing you can do to effect the timing with the AccessPort. Think (the key word is "think") temps do play a role as the timing did vary, but doing anything that is controlled by the end user of the AccessPort was non-existent for me. Cobb confirmed the timing did nothing also.

Good luck on the tune, if you can get it to work your certainly a better man than me or Calvin whom is the tuner at Cobb as it didn't it to click for him either.

...Bingo....the car does have Dynamic timing control....on multiple redundant levels...

I have tested temp based timing control on the 370z with variable resistors and have made great progress in maintaining timing....I relayed my findings to Cobb the very first day the AP was in my hands....all we can really do now is wait and hope these definitions make it to the Tuner software for the end-user to have access to.

-Jack

lol. i went into the shop wanting a cobb and exhuast. now u got us hooked on some crazy kit! fastest stock turbo GTR...here we come. or should we just got for highest hp w/turbo upgrade...decisions decisions. i think we should make the the offiicial hp logic car. that way, u can do whatever u want with it. soo many damn possibilities on this car, its hard to go down one avenue.

Puff of smoke = knock sensor = degraded timing?

Could someone swap ECU from the new NISMO, and post some dyno numbers?

I wonder what it'd do in a stock Z without the NISMO bolt-ons...

Does that mean you were able to make it stop pulling out timing in that range AFTER you used AccessPort to tune using the resisters?

Right now using a homemade ram air to the Stillen G3 filters and heat barrier wrapped G3 tubes. There are four layers around each MAF.


http://s412.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=DSC00613.jpg


http://s412.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=DSC00598.jpg

The intake temps are as close as 3 degrees over ambient on a cool motor during open throttle. In normal driving the intake temps stabilize to only over 8 degrees over ambient. In addition, with the GTM oil cooler my oil temps in normal driving do not go over 192 degrees and water temps are typically about 5 degrees below that.

http://s412.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=DSC00603.jpg

The last log session is what was posted prior whereby the car did pick up overall timing in 72 ambient weather and 183 water temps, however there is still a dip in the mid range as you can see in the timing table.

Exactly how many hoops do you have to jump through and what in the hell is Nissan thinking if that is the case? Just don't see the average user going as far as I did to stabilize temps, yet it still pulls out timing. SAE conditions are 67 degrees and 29.61 barometric pressure and just isn't that far off.

Or........When comparing baseline dyno to Cobb tuning the car pulls out midrange timing and did not do it before. Still think the AcessPort induced the midrange fallout and Nissan for the overall timing loss in higher temps.


http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t.../DennyCobb.jpg

http://s412.photobucket.com/albums/p...neRun2-std.jpg

Exactly. Calvin said he saw no hint of retard on his logging. However, when looking at my own posted scanning log; see a 2 degree hit in timing about the same time you would see a puff.

So, can the TechnoSquare software or any other tuning solution adjusting timing? I just want to know if this is even something possible for COBB to fix.

Damn, wish someone from COBB would chime in on this thread. We really need some answers on what is going on with the 370Z Accessport.

^ So does anyone know if the ignition timing on the 370Z is actually tunable?