Cobb vs UpRev

1slow370

Even IF it doesn't apply to uprev that is how the cobb unit works. I do believe that the Uprev program is actually still based on the original code in the ecu. They most likely are adding/altering to it in order to do what they want to do. All reflashes basically do the same things, change air, fuel tables, recalibrate MAF, change timing, remove limiters, change injector size, and turn off trouble codes.
Car ecu's acomplish incredible amounts of data handling not because they have super beefy processors but because they are simple. You can't load windows on them. I have used programs that support realtime changes while the engine is running on ecu's made back in 1980. You don't need a whole new OS to switch maps the chip in the ecu happens to be big enough to hold 5 maps and probably supports 5 different refferance signals. We used to use an adapter like a ZIF socket that could switch the refferance signal and change maps. I give uprev credit that there is some real work put into using the cruise control as the switch.

theDreamer

But Uprev does break down the entire ECU and writes there own, they do keep some of the original pieces, as those are vital. There are a lot of similarities between a computer & the ECU of a car, now they use different views on programming and assigning tasks, but when you break it down, they are not that far away from one another. Here is the most up to date news, I have been in contact with them about a few things and finally asked about an ETA date on the 370z:

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1slow370

so could uprev list the difference of how there stuff handles the fuel and ignition control, valve timing, valve lift, you know anything other than "Ooh map switching." Here's one for you how about control over the electronic throttle bodies? Tip for ya supercharger plus ETB's plus VVEL don't work. Lets talk throttles open under no load condition and the throttle controls the airflow through a roots or twin screw blower. These engines can be throttled with the valve lift maybe they are having a problem with that. I'd like something a little more informative than they are having updates and testing which can go on for ever. I don't care about the date if they would describe more. Hell I'll wait another year if it's good enough and you know I'd drive myself down there to have the software carefully explained to me because for $600, and after apparently replacing Nissan's code in the ecu, it should be able to support more control points, larger tables, at least a 2-BAR MAP sensor, ETB and VVEL control, CVTC control(I think uprev does this), Larger injectors(I think uprev does this), Bigger displacements, wideband swap, knock sensor support beyond 5,000rpm, and be able to change the display on the left gauge that's useless (oh and don't mean half @##'n it and just playing with a ten point fuel map for hours to make it work). When it can do that myself and many others will wait a year, pay double the price, buy the guys steak dinner, shut up, and be happy. So considering that they don't have the capabilities to ever pull that off I think I'm going to have to wait for the Haltech Platinum. HINT TO UPREV HERE you can still beat the customized stand-alone and piggyback companies to market if you expand your software, and it would be able to do double what the COBB can. Most people wouldn't even mind sending in the ecu to have new boards installed if it can do some of what i ask.

NIZMOZ

^^ Tell ya what. Since you know so much, why don't you come out with your own. Seems you think you know more than Uprev or Cobb.

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New DD: 2010 Titan Pro4X CC

Denny McLain

Just purchased Cobb and after a bit of a hassle to get the program installed, (It won't work on Vista 64) finally got it going on a back-up 32 bit Vista laptop. Going through the program trying to figure it out and realizing fully it's a beta version, my initial impression is.......it really doesn't do much.

Example: The car usually runs a 200 degree water temp and my intentions are to replace the thermo with hopefully a 160 degree one and have the fans come on sooner. There are no provisions in the software to adjust onset of the fans. If you can't do something as simple as adjust the fans, cam tuning??!!

Appears to be very, very basic and not exactly what I was looking for. The AccessPort is a handy gadget, but "gadget" may be the key word. Time will tell as it's really too soon to make judgments and it's real easy to brag up something before it even works, (UpRev) but everything eventually comes out in the wash and I'm willing to give things some time.

Right now I'm going........You're kidding me, right? The big whoop de do is over this?

semtex

FWIW, thanks for being the early adopter on this one and saving the rest of us the grief. It sucks that it hasn't worked out better, but I do appreciate the warning.

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Denny McLain

Your very welcome.

More FYI....... Programming the fuel/air is also pretty tricky and not very straight forward. The fuel/air tables are pretty course with only about six rpm points so instead you recalibrate the MAF settings. Basically your tricking the computer into thinking it has less or more air going into the engine so it compensates. Reworking the MAF calibrations is complicated as you need to log the voltage and equate that into rpm.

Right now I'm thinking you do need to be a rocket scientists to program one of these things. So if the above lost ya..... you're probably never going to be sending a rocket to Mars so don't worry about it.

1slow370

target air fuel ratio is only a guide category at best. try to find the volumetric efficency maps or the MAF maps. Do you see any tables that mentions load or pressure?

I don't think I'm smarter than Uprev but maybe you should try doubting what people tell you sometimes espescially when they are trying to sell you something expensive. I wish we could get some input on here from uprev of a complete list of what can be done with it. Or maybe a trial version of the software just to go through it and see what it can do doesn't have to actually tune the car I just want to see the different tables and options it has. I have already watched all there video's about it.

westpak

Here is some info from the Manual for the 350Z, they are trying to get the same abilities on the 370Z but it has proven more of a challenge than the 350Z and they don't want to release it without all of the features like Cobb has, they are almost there, One of the things being real time tuning.

Tables
Target AFR table
Fuel Compensation table
Ignition Timing Advance
Camshaft advance
Limits
Injector Latency
K Fuel Multiplier
Base Fuel Schedule Modifier
Idle Targets
Intake Temp Calibration
MAF Table
Cranking Enrichment
Cranking Ignition A, B and C

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Denny McLain

You're kidding right? Do you realize how many people have hooted on me for calling out the manufacturers on their claims? For only trusting independent objective empirical information from people with no financial interest?

What it amounts to is when the car was on the dyno, I saw room for improvement and basically fuel/air is the first place to start. That the Cobb does do only you really need to be knowledgeable in how basic tuning works and how their software works. It was free dyno time and the thing is not an arm n an leg. As mentioned, Handy Gadget.

Called Calvin whom does the Cobb tuning in Plano yesterday, they appear to be stand up people in every manner and so far have not made any outrageous claims to my knowledge. He and I both are completely in the dark as to why the car is pulling out timing in the midrange and told me to reset the ECU, drive the car and log what the timing is doing. If that didn't work, it was another dyno session to get a better handle on the car.

My impression is the ECU are strange birds to deal with for everyone.

Anyway.....This is what the Cobb currently does:

Fuel Tables
• Intake Calibration
o MAF A and B
• Base Fuel Schedule Modifier (Beta)
• Fuel Multiplier
• Injector Latency A and B
• Injector Latency Multiplier and Offset
• Injector Scalar A and B
• Primary Fuel (8 points)

Ignition Tables
• Ignition Hi Det
• Knock overlay Hi Det
• Knock overlay primary A and B
• Primary Ignition A and B
Limits
• Rev Limit - Fuel Cut (2)
• Rev Limit Throttle
• Rev Limit -Limp Home
• Speed limit A-C
• Speed Limit Hysteresis

Misc Tables
• Idle Table A-E

Throttle Tables
• Throttle 1-8

To be candid about half of it is Greek to me and I'm going to take the car/software to a couple of buddies whom tune full time for help.

Denny McLain

As a FYI.......

Corky Bell did a Turbo Supra for me that used a Haltech system that I was quite happy with. By pure happenstance, one of the Haltech engineers was friends with the dyno shop whom sponsored me. They asked me if they could use one of my cars as the test mule to development a new engine management system which they felt would improve overall performance.

Wasn't privy to the actual hardware or software development and that doesn't matter as I wouldn't know what I was looking at anyway, but did spend every single dyno testing session with them. The short of the story is after abusing my car for a month on the dyno, driving the streets of Dallas under different load conditions and numerous tweaks.......The car did not make a single hp more than the stock ECU when tuned with OBDII LT1.edit software.

NIZMOZ

That just means they need a better tuner. UPREV can do it on the Z, Technosquare, and Cobb as well. It can happen.

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SOLD: 2007 NISMO 350Z #0044 Silver Alloy
New DD: 2010 Titan Pro4X CC

1slow370

I know a few guys with FI around here putting down good numbers (400-600) on their 350's and when their UTEC's broke they went Haltec and all of them were quite happy with it. Hell those things have built in two step rev limiters and no hiccups with the rest of the car. When they get tired of tuning equipment that doesn't get the job done they go to haltech. These reflash utilities are only good for mild N/A builds and while you can screw around with tables for weeks to run mild boost, in the end you end up getting something else.

westpak

you are comparing apples and oranges, the Utec is not the best for boosted cars, I would pick Osiris over a Utec for any application on a 350Z, NA or boosted. We have done some boosted 350Z's including an HR with Osiris and they run perfect.

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Denny McLain

Not sure if you got the point.

LT1.edit is a tuning program for LTx motor F-bodies and Corvettes that tweaks the stock ECU. In this case it was a 97 SS Camaro with extensive modifications. The stock ECU was originally tuned at Dynotech using the LT1.edit and even with engineering tuning support from Haltech, they could not improve on the stock computers ability to control the engine and produce horsepower. Bob Norwood at that time used the same dyno and popped in for a couple of sessions.

Norwood Autocraft, Inc. - Dallas, TX/Fast Cars

Think you'd be very hard pressed to find a better tuner.

Guessing a dozen dyno sessions at least looking for the holy grail. One night alone we started about midnight and stopped about 5:30 am going through two tanks of gas driving the hwys' around Dallas at different load levels to fine tweak the tune.

Not saying anything bad at all about Haltech except that the stock ECU on certain cars can be very hard to improve upon. Not a slam dunk by any means and I seem to recall the factory has a few engineers themselves with pretty deep pockets for R&D.