Cobb vs UpRev

Scribe · 07-15-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uprev

We offer it both ways. The Pro Tuner can tune it for you, or if you want to tune it yourself you can buy that system also. We're far more flexible in our offerings than other companies also. That tends to be somewhat confusing to people as they aren't use to having choices. But it works for us.

Some people will buy the Osiris Tuner so they can adjust their car, but they will have a Pro Tuner set up the original tune on it. That way they can adjust their car for different tracks etc. They have the software available in the event something happens also. We have a tone of SCCA and NASA teams that use our software, and if a motor dies between events and they need to replace it, they will need to adjust that tune. Sometimes they don't have time to get a full new dyno tune between events, and we're their saving grace.

Other customers just want their car to run right, they don't care about having Cipher for data logging or diagnostics. They can go to a Pro Tuner, buy an Osiris License and a tune and be done. By far the cheapest solution on the market for that customer.

Also our system is upgradeable. Start with the Osiris License and a tune because thats what your budget allows, then add the Cipher at a later date. You can upgrade to Osiris Tuner even if you'd like.

I don't want to totally highjack this thread, but want to take the talk about the posabilities of the stock ecu with Uprev.

Uprev sounds a lot like DSMLink from when I when I had my GSXes. It turns the stock ECU into a kind of 'standalone' unit, allowing you to monitor everything and alter a lot of things that the ECU can.

Uprev apparently can handle forced induction, but I'm wondering about overwriting the tables for a VK50 swap. Any input on whether your software would allow the stock VQ37 tables to be overwritten to allow someone to maintain the stock ECU with a modified wiring harness? The other option is to use the VK50 ECU for the engine and VQ37 ECU for the chasis, or try and modify the chasis harness to work with the FX50 ECU, either of which is acceptable, but not ideal. I'm also looking at a 'full standalone' option.

wstar · 07-15-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Those statements may be true based on the products they've released for other cars, but as it pertains to the 370Z, until their stuff is released, it's vaporware. Don't get me wrong, I've heard nothing but good things about UpRev and have high expectations for their 370Z software. Heck, there's a good chance that I'll end up going with them. But coming out and claiming that your stuff is better than the other guys before you've even finished with development just seems kinda cocky to me. To be honest, it's a bit of a turnoff. Also, I believe the forum rules state that one needs to be a forum sponsor if he wants to push his products on the forum.

It's really hard work, I work on similar stuff professionally, just not for cars. Their various statements about superiority are based on the fact that they're taking an entirely different approach to the problem than other vendors. Their approach is a lot more difficult to pull off from a technical perspective, but it does in result in a completely different level of control. It's not like other parts, like an exhaust, where nobody really knows how two things will stack up until it hits the dyno. They already know their approach is superior if more difficult to accomplish.

As far as vaporware status: they've clearly (1) already done this for previous-gen Nissan cars and released it, and (2) already done all the hard parts for this car, as it has been used privately for TT tuning of a VQ37VHR already. They're just still polishing up the loose ends before they release it to the public.

westpak · 07-15-2009, 11:30 AM

we have used it on the 350Z numerous times including turbo Z's and it is a great application, I can't wait for it to be released for the 370Z and I think everyone will be pleased with it.

FricFrac · 07-15-2009, 01:23 PM

It just seems like vaporware when its not even ready for the 350 HR yet....

NIZMOZ · 07-15-2009, 02:47 PM

They already have their software out for the 350Z HR. You just take it to a tuner or send your ECU into them for now.

FricFrac · 07-15-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

They already have their software out for the 350Z HR. You just take it to a tuner or send your ECU into them for now.

... right but no e-tune even for the HR correct?

drisko · 07-17-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

UPREV you can tune the car yourself. Cobb you can not and must take it to a tuner.

Not sure if this was already mentioned...but you can download the AccessTUNER Race version of the software for free and tune your vehicle by yourself (or take it to someone else). The AcessTUNER Pro version is the only version you pay for, and it is designed for shops that want to use it to tune multiple vehicles (it is a multi-user, multi-vehicle software license).

1slow370 · 08-22-2009, 09:12 AM

Cobb exists for the 370, Uprev does not. Also UpRev "will be released shorty we're just finishing some things up" since early june and they've acquired a car to work with months ago. I can't see a reason why they didn't release it for the 370 yet other than they can't get something big to work on the 370(I don't care about the 350z results as it's a totally different car). Especialy since they could label it beta, collect input on the issues from users, and release a software update for it later. If the missing map switching light is the hold up It's a foolish mistake to not release it without that capability and get your product to market if it functions fine otherwise. I have hands on experience in tunning cars from hexidecimal bin code back since OBD I, and i understand that the major factors involved in making tunning software are: the connection with the ecm and control software, creating a program to physically read/write that control software/building a GUI to work from, and reverse engineering the factory software so a vehicle definition that says where certian data/maps are in the code and how to change the values in those maps/flags can be created. This concept is shared by virtually every ecu tunning program ever made since in the end you aren't changing any of the vehicles circuitry and the vast majority of the code in the ecm is not altered at all, only the values you want to change to affect how the engine runs. This is how Cobb does it and probably how UpRev does it on other vehicles. The only alternatives are piggybacks which go in between the ecu and the devices it controls and alters the end signal like a sound system amplifier, stand alones which offer there own processors and circuitry to completely ignore the factory ecu and can do w/e the company wants it to do but rarely work with the integrated systems like the electronic dash and focus only on the motor. The generic nature of piggybacks and stand-alones is why we turn to altering the factory code via Cobb and UpRev. The problem with this is that often the companies making the software to alter the factory code can't account for changes in hardware beyond what is done already by nissan. Nissan writes a value for injector size into the code so you can change it. If nissan's electronics don't accept a MAP or BARO sensor you can't add one or sometimes change the size of the one on the car. Does UpRev reprogram the way the ecu reads the voltage from the sensor, or change the scale of the tables to go from 1bar to being able to actually read pressure? This is what defines a tunning programs power, ADAPTABILITY AND FEATURES. Map switching with the cruise control is something Cobb doesn't have, Cobb doesn't require you to have a laptop to run their software UpRev does. In the end if the values the programs change are the same it comes down to cost. If UpRev lets me switch to speed density and lets the car actually adjust for FI, I'll buy it. Otherwise both options are the same except for map switching, and laptop requirments and will do the EXACT SAME THING.

355890 · 08-22-2009, 11:16 AM

^^ good info...break it down into paragraphs next time, so it's easier to read.

NIZMOZ · 08-22-2009, 01:17 PM

I know UPREV pretty well and they like to make sure there product is proven and works 100% with no issues and not releasing a product 1/2 a$$ to the public. So it's better to wait. Like in the IT field, when you plan a project for deployment, you make sure you got everything taken care of so there are no band aids needed after wards. It makes your life much easier.

theDreamer · 08-22-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

I know UPREV pretty well and they like to make sure there product is proven and works 100% with no issues and not releasing a product 1/2 a$$ to the public. So it's better to wait. Like in the IT field, when you plan a project for deployment, you make sure you got everything taken care of so there are no band aids needed after wards. It makes your life much easier.

Plus I believe Uprev does more than just "change a few numbers" they completely break down the ECU and try to change every possible variable to improve upon what Nissan created. It is not as simple as downloading it and changing a few X variables, any one wrong part could cause the whole ECU to malfunction.

FricFrac · 08-23-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Cobb exists for the 370, Uprev does not. Also UpRev "will be released shorty we're just finishing some things up" since early june and they've acquired a car to work with months ago. I can't see a reason why they didn't release it for the 370 yet other than they can't get something big to work on the 370(I don't care about the 350z results as it's a totally different car). Especialy since they could label it beta, collect input on the issues from users, and release a software update for it later. If the missing map switching light is the hold up It's a foolish mistake to not release it without that capability and get your product to market if it functions fine otherwise. I have hands on experience in tunning cars from hexidecimal bin code back since OBD I, and i understand that the major factors involved in making tunning software are: the connection with the ecm and control software, creating a program to physically read/write that control software/building a GUI to work from, and reverse engineering the factory software so a vehicle definition that says where certian data/maps are in the code and how to change the values in those maps/flags. This concept is shared by virtually every ecu tunning program ever made since in the end you aren't changing any of the vehicles circuitry and the vast majority of the code in the ecm is not altered at all, only the values you want to change to affect how the engine runs. This is how Cobb does it and probably how UpRev does it on other vehicles. The only alternatives are piggybacks which go in between the ecu and the devices it controls and alters the end signal like a sound system amplifier, stand alones which offer there own processors and circuitry to completely ignore the factory ecu and can do w/e the company wants it to do but rarely work with the integrated systems like the electronic dash and focus only on the motor. The generic nature of piggybacks and stand-alones is why we turn to altering the factory code via Cobb and UpRev. The problem with this is that often the companies making the software to alter the factory code can't account for changes in hardware beyond what is done already by nissan. Nissan writes a value for injector size into the code so you can change it. If nissan's electronics don't accept a MAP or BARO sensor you can't add one or sometimes change the size of the one on the car. Does UpRev reprogram the way the ecu reads the voltage from the sensor, or change the scale of the tables to go from 1bar to being able to actually read pressure? This is what defines a tunning programs power ADAPTABILITY AND FEATURES. Map switching with the cruise control is something Cobb doesn't have, Cobb doesn't require you to have a laptop to run their software UpRev does. In the end if the values the programs change are the same it comes down to cost. If UpRev lets me switch to speed density and lets the car actually adjust for FI, I'll buy it. Otherwise both options are the same except for map switching, and laptop requirments and will do the EXACT SAME THING.

My understanding is that UpRev actually runs their own OS on the Nissan hardware rather than just putting a new map in. Pretty sure that's what was said earlier in this thread....

escalade2346 · 08-23-2009, 01:24 PM

hey guys i was just wondering is vvel like vtec or are they completely different

wstar · 08-24-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

My understanding is that UpRev actually runs their own OS on the Nissan hardware rather than just putting a new map in. Pretty sure that's what was said earlier in this thread....

Yes, this is effectively what they're doing. They're replacing the factory software with their own replacement software. The biggest advantage they derive from this: if you just "change maps" the simpler way, any time you want to swap maps you have to reflash the map. In their version of the software, you can flash multiple maps into the car at once, and then their software can pick and choose which to load into working memory and use at any given time on the fly, which allows the cruise-control map-switching on their previous generation efforts. Sounds like they may be doing the map-switching differently for the VQ37 though, perhaps by using our left-side info display.

theDreamer · 08-24-2009, 10:31 AM

Wstar, that is exactly what I was thinking (and hoping). I love the idea of switching with the cruise control, but with the, currently, useless side panel it would make it worth it. Guess I need to take a trip to Austin and stop by this month.

07-15-2009, 11:30 AM	#123 (permalink)
westpak Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lake Worth, FL Posts: 405 Drives: 2003 350Z DB Rep Power: 16	we have used it on the 350Z numerous times including turbo Z's and it is a great application, I can't wait for it to be released for the 370Z and I think everyone will be pleased with it. __________________ 03 350Z 587 RWHP - May 2009 Dsport Feature

07-15-2009, 01:23 PM	#124 (permalink)
FricFrac A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 1,481 Drives: 370Z 300ZX 280ZX 240 Rep Power: 228	It just seems like vaporware when its not even ready for the 350 HR yet.... __________________ '09 370Z - '93 300ZX Vert - '83 280ZX - '83 280ZXT -'81 280ZXT stroker - '72 240Z - Stillen CBE, HFC, G3, Grounding Kit, Sways // Swift Spring // H&R 15mm // 5% Tint // Clear Bra //

07-15-2009, 02:47 PM	#125 (permalink)
NIZMOZ Track Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 634 Drives: 07 NISMO 350Z SA M6 Rep Power: 491	They already have their software out for the 350Z HR. You just take it to a tuner or send your ECU into them for now. __________________ SOLD: 2007 NISMO 350Z #0044 Silver Alloy New DD: 2010 Titan Pro4X CC

08-22-2009, 09:12 AM	#128 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	Cobb exists for the 370, Uprev does not. Also UpRev "will be released shorty we're just finishing some things up" since early june and they've acquired a car to work with months ago. I can't see a reason why they didn't release it for the 370 yet other than they can't get something big to work on the 370(I don't care about the 350z results as it's a totally different car). Especialy since they could label it beta, collect input on the issues from users, and release a software update for it later. If the missing map switching light is the hold up It's a foolish mistake to not release it without that capability and get your product to market if it functions fine otherwise. I have hands on experience in tunning cars from hexidecimal bin code back since OBD I, and i understand that the major factors involved in making tunning software are: the connection with the ecm and control software, creating a program to physically read/write that control software/building a GUI to work from, and reverse engineering the factory software so a vehicle definition that says where certian data/maps are in the code and how to change the values in those maps/flags can be created. This concept is shared by virtually every ecu tunning program ever made since in the end you aren't changing any of the vehicles circuitry and the vast majority of the code in the ecm is not altered at all, only the values you want to change to affect how the engine runs. This is how Cobb does it and probably how UpRev does it on other vehicles. The only alternatives are piggybacks which go in between the ecu and the devices it controls and alters the end signal like a sound system amplifier, stand alones which offer there own processors and circuitry to completely ignore the factory ecu and can do w/e the company wants it to do but rarely work with the integrated systems like the electronic dash and focus only on the motor. The generic nature of piggybacks and stand-alones is why we turn to altering the factory code via Cobb and UpRev. The problem with this is that often the companies making the software to alter the factory code can't account for changes in hardware beyond what is done already by nissan. Nissan writes a value for injector size into the code so you can change it. If nissan's electronics don't accept a MAP or BARO sensor you can't add one or sometimes change the size of the one on the car. Does UpRev reprogram the way the ecu reads the voltage from the sensor, or change the scale of the tables to go from 1bar to being able to actually read pressure? This is what defines a tunning programs power, ADAPTABILITY AND FEATURES. Map switching with the cruise control is something Cobb doesn't have, Cobb doesn't require you to have a laptop to run their software UpRev does. In the end if the values the programs change are the same it comes down to cost. If UpRev lets me switch to speed density and lets the car actually adjust for FI, I'll buy it. Otherwise both options are the same except for map switching, and laptop requirments and will do the EXACT SAME THING. Last edited by 1slow370; 08-28-2009 at 04:08 AM.

08-22-2009, 11:16 AM	#129 (permalink)
355890 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 416 Drives: GP Z Base+Sport (6m) Rep Power: 541	^^ good info...break it down into paragraphs next time, so it's easier to read. __________________ *"Burnley Football Club supporter" ENGLAND...ENGLAND...ENGLAND*

08-22-2009, 01:17 PM	#130 (permalink)
NIZMOZ Track Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 634 Drives: 07 NISMO 350Z SA M6 Rep Power: 491	I know UPREV pretty well and they like to make sure there product is proven and works 100% with no issues and not releasing a product 1/2 a$$ to the public. So it's better to wait. Like in the IT field, when you plan a project for deployment, you make sure you got everything taken care of so there are no band aids needed after wards. It makes your life much easier. __________________ SOLD: 2007 NISMO 350Z #0044 Silver Alloy New DD: 2010 Titan Pro4X CC

08-23-2009, 01:24 PM	#133 (permalink)
escalade2346 Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: ny Posts: 6 Drives: honda Rep Power: 16	hey guys i was just wondering is vvel like vtec or are they completely different

08-24-2009, 10:31 AM	#135 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Wstar, that is exactly what I was thinking (and hoping). I love the idea of switching with the cruise control, but with the, currently, useless side panel it would make it worth it. Guess I need to take a trip to Austin and stop by this month. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

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