Cobb vs UpRev

NIZMOZ · 07-06-2009, 08:25 PM

The product is licenses to that car and you can not do multiple cars with it.

355890 · 07-06-2009, 08:32 PM

What exactly is a CUSTOM TUNE on a non-turbo / non-supercharged car.

I have no idea what you are all talking about.

Are each and everyone of these Z's cars built differently. I suspect not.

Generic re-mapping based on your add on achieves exactly the same thing give or take a percentage point.

Get the research done, give me the efile, give me a cord, and download the map into the ECU and off to the races we go at the best price possible.

Better yet COBB needs to get off their rocker and get this thing out, it's not rocket science.

FricFrac · 07-06-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

The product is licenses to that car and you can not do multiple cars with it.

I realize that an I have no intention of beating the system but my point is when they jack the price way up and limit the system people will look to work around it. If they keep the price low or keep the price the same and make the system multi user then it decreases the chance the system will get bypassed because it is a good value. In todays world most of our hardware is easily upgradable and updates are typically free - look at your home electronics - TVs, MP3 players, computers, etc. There is no reason people won't start looking for firmware upgrades for their car computers (ECU) now..... smart buisinesses keep ahead of the technology instead of sucumbing to it....

FricFrac · 07-06-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 355890

What exactly is a CUSTOM TUNE on a non-turbo / non-supercharged car.

I have no idea what you are all talking about.

Are each and everyone of these Z's cars built differently. I suspect not.

Generic re-mapping based on your add on achieves exactly the same thing give or take a percentage point.

Get the research done, give me the efile, give me a cord, and download the map into the ECU and off to the races we go at the best price possible.

Better yet COBB needs to get off their rocker and get this thing out, it's not rocket science.

Its basically optimizing the system electronically. There are certain constraints built into a system because of emissions, etc. By tweeking how the computer (which basically runs our cars now) works we can optimize performance, etc.

I suspect custom generic MAPs will work well as these cars are putting out very close to the same results. The Nissan programmed MAPs are generic to each vehicle as well.

355890 · 07-06-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

Its basically optimizing the system electronically. There are certain constraints built into a system because of emissions, etc. By tweeking how the computer (which basically runs our cars now) works we can optimize performance, etc.

I suspect custom generic MAPs will work well as these cars are putting out very close to the same results. The Nissan programmed MAPs are generic to each vehicle as well.

Cheers.....

Beautiful Island VICTORIA. I used to live in Banff

FricFrac · 07-07-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 355890

Cheers.....

Beautiful Island VICTORIA. I used to live in Banff

Shhh - don't tell everyone! You're suppose to tell everyone how rotten it is here on the Island

I do like Banff - its amazing up there..... you work up there?

37Z · 07-07-2009, 08:19 PM

UpRev has numerous sanctioned tuners where one can have their own Z dyno'tuned, or one can datalog your Z and they will create MAP's, or one purchase MAP's from UpRev's library of Z MAPs.

UpRev has not release there tuner product yet having check there website today (6-7-09).

FricFrac · 07-08-2009, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37Z

UpRev has numerous sanctioned tuners where one can have their own Z dyno'tuned, or one can datalog your Z and they will create MAP's, or one purchase MAP's from UpRev's library of Z MAPs.

UpRev has not release there tuner product yet having check there website today (6-7-09).

Yea but $1200 (around $900+ before travel) is a little steep for me to justify the end result at this point in time for a dyno tune at a sanctioned tuner.... what is everyone else paying for a tune?

NIZMOZ · 07-08-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37Z

UpRev has numerous sanctioned tuners where one can have their own Z dyno'tuned, or one can datalog your Z and they will create MAP's, or one purchase MAP's from UpRev's library of Z MAPs.

UpRev has not release there tuner product yet having check there website today (6-7-09).

Not for the 370z they haven't released it yet. But it will be soon as they have had a 370z in their hands for a little while now.

wstar · 07-08-2009, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

It sounds to me like you want the ability to put a new map in the ECU then do another car but keep the updated map in the old car. I suspect you need to get the "tuner" version in order to do that.

That is my issue with this system - you are spending a huge chunk of change for what is basically a EEPROM programer and just reads data off the data bus on your car. I haven't looked into it really but I suspect that it runs off something like a CAN network. What ends up happening when you tighten the reigns too tight to make some money is techies get upset and try to find their own hack on the system. While I don't mind paying $700 to be able to access the data bus with zero effort the fact that they are reading my serial number on my ECU then only allowing that ECU to use the hardware that burns me because I expect for $700 I should be able to hook my hardware up to my friends ECU and clear his CEL or even program his MAP if I want. $700 is a lot of coin for what this unit is and I don't mind paying for the research but the excessive restrictions are just that - too restrictive for the price paid. Feels like I'm buying an Apple product. I suspect the first hack for this will be a micro controller to monitor the bus then when the unit checks for a serial the ucontroller sends it a default serial thus bypassing the serial check then you can use it for any ECU since its married to the generated serial....

First off, in the case of the UpRev stuff, you can still hook up to the CAN and read data and clear CELs and whatnot on other cars, not just the licensed car (using your copy of Cipher). And secondly, you're not just uploading a map. What the UpRev guys have done is completely reverse-engineered the car's software and rewritten it. When you program your car with Osiris, you're replacing the factory engine software with their own custom version, which in turn allows easy uploading of multiple tuning setups to the car (again with Osiris) and easy switching of them via the cruise control buttons.

The $700 isn't paying for access to a CAN bus. The $700 is what you're paying them to defray the costs involved in reverse engineering and rewriting the car's ECU software, which is a pretty tricky endeavor.

semtex · 07-08-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

Yea but $1200 (around $900+ before travel) is a little steep for me to justify the end result at this point in time for a dyno tune at a sanctioned tuner.... what is everyone else paying for a tune?

Where are you getting your numbers from? It doesn't cost that much to get a dyno tune with UpRev. When you do a dyno tune with UpRev, you don't have to purchase their software because the tuner already has it and you're paying him to (a) do the tune, and (b) upload the new map into your ECU with his copy of the UpRev Osiris software. You only need to purchase the software yourself if you want the data logging capabilities of Cipher. Cipher costs $300. You don't need Osiris, because the tuner is using his copy of Osiris Tuner to flash your ECU.

Let me put it this way. I know how much Sharif would charge me if we dyno tuned with UpRev. I know how much he'll charge me when we do it with Cobb. It's not my place to disclose his rates here. But I will tell you that if I just did UpRev and didn't get Cipher, it'd be cheaper than Cobb. But we need to compare apples to apples as best we can. With Cobb, you get the dyno tune and you drive away with the AP device afterwards, which does the datalogging, allows you to switch in the valet and anti-theft maps, etc. Point being, to compare the UpRev price to the Cobb price, we have to throw in Cipher. At that point, the price difference between the two is marginal. i.e., the price of dyno tuning plus a copy of Cipher is roughly equivalent to the price of dyno tuning with Cobb, which automatically gives you their AP device to take with you. Cobb still ends up being a tad more expensive, but I think you get a little more as well. What I mean by this is that with Cobb, you get a self-contained device for datalogging. With UpRev Cipher, you still need to supply your own laptop to plug in. Cipher is just software you run on your laptop; there's no hardware. I don't know about you, but I don't really feel comfortable about driving around with my $3k laptop open and running and just sitting unsecured on the passenger seat while I drive around at WOT.

So the net of this is, if all you want is a proper dyno tune with UpRev and you don't care about datalogging, it won't run you $1200. Not even close. If you do want datalogging with UpRev Cipher, it still won't run you $1200 total (although it will admittedly be a lot closer to that mark). Furthermore, if you do want datalogging, then at that point I think you have to seriously consider going with Cobb instead. Unless, of course, you don't care about having a self-contained handheld device vs. having to use your own laptop.

SOLISIMO · 07-08-2009, 08:46 AM

I hope you guys know that Cobb released their pro tuner software already in which you can custom tune the car. Atleast for the G37 its out.

semtex · 07-08-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOLISIMO

I hope you guys know that Cobb released their pro tuner software already in which you can custom tune the car. Atleast for the G37 its out.

Yes, we know this. Review the thread. See post 17. I already have it on order with Sharif, who will be doing my dyno tune.

SOLISIMO · 07-08-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Yes, we know this. Review the thread. See post 17. I already have it on order with Sharif, who will be doing my dyno tune.

Sorry wasnt going to read through all the drama on the thread, just trying to help out

semtex · 07-08-2009, 09:47 AM

But the drama is half the fun!

07-06-2009, 08:25 PM	#61 (permalink)
NIZMOZ Track Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 634 Drives: 07 NISMO 350Z SA M6 Rep Power: 491	The product is licenses to that car and you can not do multiple cars with it. __________________ SOLD: 2007 NISMO 350Z #0044 Silver Alloy New DD: 2010 Titan Pro4X CC

07-06-2009, 08:32 PM	#62 (permalink)
355890 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 416 Drives: GP Z Base+Sport (6m) Rep Power: 541	What exactly is a CUSTOM TUNE on a non-turbo / non-supercharged car. I have no idea what you are all talking about. Are each and everyone of these Z's cars built differently. I suspect not. Generic re-mapping based on your add on achieves exactly the same thing give or take a percentage point. Get the research done, give me the efile, give me a cord, and download the map into the ECU and off to the races we go at the best price possible. Better yet COBB needs to get off their rocker and get this thing out, it's not rocket science. __________________ *"Burnley Football Club supporter" ENGLAND...ENGLAND...ENGLAND*

07-07-2009, 08:19 PM	#67 (permalink)
37Z Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 476 Drives: 370Z MB 6M -sold Rep Power: 263	UpRev tuner software for the 370Z UpRev has numerous sanctioned tuners where one can have their own Z dyno'tuned, or one can datalog your Z and they will create MAP's, or one purchase MAP's from UpRev's library of Z MAPs. UpRev has not release there tuner product yet having check there website today (6-7-09).

07-08-2009, 09:47 AM	#75 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	But the drama is half the fun! __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

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07-08-2009, 08:46 AM	#72 (permalink)
SOLISIMO Track Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 510 Drives: TOP SECRET G37S Rep Power: 17	I hope you guys know that Cobb released their pro tuner software already in which you can custom tune the car. Atleast for the G37 its out.