Cobb vs UpRev

Togo · 07-05-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Here's what I'm trying to figure out. If you're going to get a dyno tune, is one really better than the other? I mean, if you're planning to use the canned maps, then I can see how one might be better. But if you're going to have a tuner custom tune your car on the dyno anyway, then what difference does it make? All the software is doing at that point is giving the tuner an interface to the ECU and allow him to modify the parameters. Do one of these software packages give tuners access to some parameters that the other doesn't? If so, then that would make one better than the other. But if both of them give the tuner access and control to the exact same parameters, then I wouldn't think it'd make a difference in terms of being able to get better gains out of one over the other.

I agree completely. I like, however, that the Cobb has a Valet setting. Wouldn't want some 16 year old blasting around, joy riding, in a $35k car with 300 at the wheels.

semtex · 07-05-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Togo

Thanks Semtex. I figured you could just have a pro do it instead of doing it yourself but yeah I don't know that I'd want to be screwing with tuning my own ECU. God forbid I leaned that **** all the way out.

BOOM!

Well, there's a lot more to tuning than just tweaking the AFR. You can tweak the ignition timing, for example. But like I said in my previous post, I'm a little confused myself at this point. If you can get a dyno tune with both UpRev and Cobb, then is one really better than the other in terms of hp gain? I would think that the answer is no, as long as both give the tuner an equal amount of control and flexibility over all the pertinent parameters. I'm no expert on tuning though, so if I'm wrong, someone please jump in.

I actually talked to Sharif at Forged last week and gave him the green light to order in a Cobb unit for my Z so that he can dyno tune it. I want to make sure I'm not shooting myself in the foot. If I find out several months from now that Sharif would've been able to get even more hp out of my car had we used UpRev instead of Cobb for the tuning, I will not be a happy camper!

Togo · 07-05-2009, 08:47 PM

I suspect the guys at Forged would have mentioned that they could make more power on UpRev vs the Cobb if it were true.

Anyone know if either UpRev or Cobb can raise the Rev Limiter? 8K+ Rev Limit on a car seems like it would be fun. Although I'm used to my 15.5k Rev Limit, hahahah

import111 · 07-05-2009, 08:52 PM

You're right, there will be no performance difference between them if there is a dyno tune done. However, if Cobb does the same on the 370 as they did with the STi/Evo, you will be able to see A/F ratio, Coolant temps, 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, ect., along with lots of base maps, like economy mode, valet mode, race gas map, pump gas map, ect. Cobb was able to do all that on WRX's/STi's/Evo's, so I would imagine it will be the same with the 370Z.

Maybe UPREV and the others can do this stuff too, idk.

theDreamer · 07-05-2009, 08:56 PM

Togo, rev limiters, MPH limiters, and others are all built into the ECU and any simple tuner (canned or not) should be able to remove them if they know what they are doing. That is if you want them removed. Also, upRev also has Valet tunes and let you change tunes on the go with the cruise control buttons I believe.

semtex · 07-05-2009, 08:57 PM

Well, I just sent a note to Sharif to confirm that gains will be the same on both tools. I'll let you guys know what he says. Or maybe he'll find this thread and chime in. Also, if you look at Cobb's webpage for the 370Z, it looks like you get all those goodies like valet map, anti-theft map, etc. CobbTuning.com - '09 370Z AccessPORT

Togo · 07-05-2009, 08:58 PM

@theDreamer - Tune changes on the fly with CC buttons is sweetness! Thats beyond sweetness, it's sweetesque!

Don't mind me, I'm easily amused...

theDreamer · 07-05-2009, 09:00 PM

In the end I believe most tunes are really all going to be the same if you get a dyno tune (Uprev or Cobb). Each might have an "extra" feature that you like, but really it comes down to which one you can get best access to with the best support. Uprev is in Austin and I can easily drive to them and have them look at my car and such. I bet Sharif will do a great job with Semtex's car with Cobb.

Togo · 07-05-2009, 09:02 PM

Would it be possible to get the Live Data function of the Cobb unit displayed onto a dedicated screen or the Navi screen, kinda like Magden or HKS Camp II?

theDreamer · 07-05-2009, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Togo

Would it be possible to get the Live Data function of the Cobb unit displayed onto a dedicated screen or the Navi screen, kinda like Magden or HKS Camp II?

Depends on how the data is transferred and how quickly it reads it (delay?). The data might log every second but it might not be able to display it in real time which would make it useless, though I am completely unsure.

RCZ · 07-05-2009, 09:52 PM

From what I've heard, the AP doesnt have the same features for the Z as it does for Evos and STIs. It seems that the tuning software of choice for the Z world is Osiris from UpRev...

As far as suggesting that the average folk tune their own car... I would 100% advice against it. If you dont know exactly what you are doing, have someone who does tune your car...

Specially so in the Z, since it seems to have two maps overlayed rather than just one like we are used to...I'm scheduled for a tune as soon as it comes out, I will let you all know how it goes.

t-ray · 07-05-2009, 10:25 PM

Osiris offers a valet mode as well. In fact, at least one g35 owner used the valet mode as a form of a two-step for launching at the drag strip. He basically selected the valet map, which I believe limited his revs to like 3k rpms, then when he launched, he selected the performance map. Viola! Two-step.

Another benefit from the UpRev offering is the Cipher software. Unbelievable software; you can log practically every sensor on the canbus** (not "literally" every sensor).

Also, just from observing the two product offerings on the g35/350z platform, I would suggest that over time/into the future, the Osiris product will offer more tuning parameters. I don't know if Osiris will ever allow for tuning the VVEL system, but if either company ever offers such functionality, it will likely be UpRev and not Cobb.

NIZMOZ · 07-06-2009, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Can you elaborate on this? In what way is it more "powerful"?

Search the other 350Z site and you will see the break down. Cobb can't adjust cam timings, UPREV can. There are many other things. There is a reason many big tuners are using UPREV now and not COBB and why many are switching from COBB to UPREV on the other site.

NIZMOZ · 07-06-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Togo

I agree completely. I like, however, that the Cobb has a Valet setting. Wouldn't want some 16 year old blasting around, joy riding, in a $35k car with 300 at the wheels.

UPREV has 5 maps you can program into your CRUISE control button. You switch between them. VALET is one of them.

Cobb you need to hook up the device to switch maps.

Osiris Standard includes Cipher and utilizes the Cipher cable to reflash and communicate with the vehicle through the OBDII Diag Port. Osiris Standard also includes Map Switching allowing you to use different tunes for different situations and 3 eTune updates you can use at any time.

Osiris Standard is a licensed based system meaning your license will be transferred to the first ECU that is flashed. This vehicle can then be flashed as many times as the user wants, but the flash will not work on any different vehicles. One additional license can be purchased at a discount for enthusiasts that may have more than one vehicle, contact us for details.

Parameters that we will tune include:

* Up to 5 Maps on cruise control equipped vehicles
* Idle RPM
* Speed Limiter
* Electronic Throttle Control to achieve Wide Open Throttle at all speeds.
* Rev Limiter
* DTC disable
* AFR Targets
* Fuel Compensation
* Ignition Timing Advance
* Cam Phasing for equipped vehicles.

NIZMOZ · 07-06-2009, 09:29 AM

http://my350 z .com/forum/nismo-350z/437479-cobbtuning-anyone.html

http://my350 z .com/forum/vq35hr/434254-cobb-tune-or-uprev-on-08-hr.html

Many other posts to read about, just some examples.

07-05-2009, 08:56 PM	#20 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Togo, rev limiters, MPH limiters, and others are all built into the ECU and any simple tuner (canned or not) should be able to remove them if they know what they are doing. That is if you want them removed. Also, upRev also has Valet tunes and let you change tunes on the go with the cruise control buttons I believe. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

07-05-2009, 08:57 PM	#21 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	Well, I just sent a note to Sharif to confirm that gains will be the same on both tools. I'll let you guys know what he says. Or maybe he'll find this thread and chime in. Also, if you look at Cobb's webpage for the 370Z, it looks like you get all those goodies like valet map, anti-theft map, etc. CobbTuning.com - '09 370Z AccessPORT __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

07-05-2009, 09:00 PM	#23 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	In the end I believe most tunes are really all going to be the same if you get a dyno tune (Uprev or Cobb). Each might have an "extra" feature that you like, but really it comes down to which one you can get best access to with the best support. Uprev is in Austin and I can easily drive to them and have them look at my car and such. I bet Sharif will do a great job with Semtex's car with Cobb. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

07-06-2009, 09:29 AM	#30 (permalink)
NIZMOZ Track Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 634 Drives: 07 NISMO 350Z SA M6 Rep Power: 491	http://my350 z .com/forum/nismo-350z/437479-cobbtuning-anyone.html http://my350 z .com/forum/vq35hr/434254-cobb-tune-or-uprev-on-08-hr.html Many other posts to read about, just some examples. __________________ SOLD: 2007 NISMO 350Z #0044 Silver Alloy New DD: 2010 Titan Pro4X CC

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07-05-2009, 08:47 PM	#18 (permalink)
Togo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: E. Northport, NY Posts: 7,597 Drives: Stuff Rep Power: 657	I suspect the guys at Forged would have mentioned that they could make more power on UpRev vs the Cobb if it were true. Anyone know if either UpRev or Cobb can raise the Rev Limiter? 8K+ Rev Limit on a car seems like it would be fun. Although I'm used to my 15.5k Rev Limit, hahahah

07-05-2009, 08:52 PM	#19 (permalink)
import111 Track Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ. Posts: 622 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z Rep Power: 191	You're right, there will be no performance difference between them if there is a dyno tune done. However, if Cobb does the same on the 370 as they did with the STi/Evo, you will be able to see A/F ratio, Coolant temps, 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, ect., along with lots of base maps, like economy mode, valet mode, race gas map, pump gas map, ect. Cobb was able to do all that on WRX's/STi's/Evo's, so I would imagine it will be the same with the 370Z. Maybe UPREV and the others can do this stuff too, idk.

07-05-2009, 08:58 PM	#22 (permalink)
Togo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: E. Northport, NY Posts: 7,597 Drives: Stuff Rep Power: 657	@theDreamer - Tune changes on the fly with CC buttons is sweetness! Thats beyond sweetness, it's sweetesque! Don't mind me, I'm easily amused...

07-05-2009, 09:02 PM	#24 (permalink)
Togo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: E. Northport, NY Posts: 7,597 Drives: Stuff Rep Power: 657	Would it be possible to get the Live Data function of the Cobb unit displayed onto a dedicated screen or the Navi screen, kinda like Magden or HKS Camp II?

07-05-2009, 09:52 PM	#26 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	From what I've heard, the AP doesnt have the same features for the Z as it does for Evos and STIs. It seems that the tuning software of choice for the Z world is Osiris from UpRev... As far as suggesting that the average folk tune their own car... I would 100% advice against it. If you dont know exactly what you are doing, have someone who does tune your car... Specially so in the Z, since it seems to have two maps overlayed rather than just one like we are used to...I'm scheduled for a tune as soon as it comes out, I will let you all know how it goes.

07-05-2009, 10:25 PM	#27 (permalink)
t-ray Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: bham al Posts: 91 Drives: 05 g sedan 6mt Rep Power: 16	Osiris offers a valet mode as well. In fact, at least one g35 owner used the valet mode as a form of a two-step for launching at the drag strip. He basically selected the valet map, which I believe limited his revs to like 3k rpms, then when he launched, he selected the performance map. Viola! Two-step. Another benefit from the UpRev offering is the Cipher software. Unbelievable software; you can log practically every sensor on the canbus** (not "literally" every sensor). Also, just from observing the two product offerings on the g35/350z platform, I would suggest that over time/into the future, the Osiris product will offer more tuning parameters. I don't know if Osiris will ever allow for tuning the VVEL system, but if either company ever offers such functionality, it will likely be UpRev and not Cobb.