VVEL control unlocked

SS_Firehawk · 10-17-2012, 12:56 PM

Direct injection, higher compression ratio, stroke it to 3.8-4.0L and it will be putting over 400 crank hp. With bolt on mods, we are getting around 400 crank hp. I just want to see evolution from design to design with a meaningful impact on performance.

100hp per liter is Honda talk because their cars are slow unless you build them for boost, even then their power range is like 6k-9k and that's it. We can get that 100 hp per liter with an exhaust, TP's/HFC's and an intake.

Rusty · 10-17-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

Direct injection, higher compression ratio, stroke it to 3.8-4.0L and it will be putting over 400 crank hp. With bolt on mods, we are getting around 400 crank hp. I just want to see evolution from design to design with a meaningful impact on performance.

100hp per liter is Honda talk because their cars are slow unless you build them for boost, even then their power range is like 6k-9k and that's it. We can get that 100 hp per liter with an exhaust, TP's/HFC's and an intake.

The 100hp per liter is not Honda talk. I come from a motorcycle background, and that was what we use to shoot for. Now it's 200hp per liter. When you talk NA cars, that's another story. A stock 370z is putting 350hp at the crank. That's still 20hp short of the 100hp per liter mark. Remember we are talking about STOCK with NO add-ons. You really want a figure to shoot for? How about 180hp per liter. That's what the 1000cc BMW is putting out at the rear wheel. That would mean a 3.7 liter motor putting out 666hp.

To get this kind of power. Big bore, short stroke, high rpm. Just like the bikes do it.

And your power would begin at 5,000rpm, with NO bottom end.

Nixlimited · 10-17-2012, 05:02 PM

Is short stroke the reason you get no power until later in the rev band?

Rusty · 10-17-2012, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixlimited

Is short stroke the reason you get no power until later in the rev band?

It's one of the reasons. Cam timing, profile, overlap, etc, intake runner length and diameter, header size, etc.

SS_Firehawk · 10-18-2012, 03:17 PM

Motorcycles are indeed a different story. I say Honda talk because it sounds better than it really is for them. It's kinda like steak... Steak is good, Honda's are a flat iron steak, and Ferrari's are Kobe Beef. To Honda guys, steak is steak... until you can actually afford Kobe beef. All of a sudden, that flat iron steak isn't so appetizing.

Rusty · 10-18-2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

Motorcycles are indeed a different story. I say Honda talk because it sounds better than it really is for them. It's kinda like steak... Steak is good, Honda's are a flat iron steak, and Ferrari's are Kobe Beef. To Honda guys, steak is steak... until you can actually afford Kobe beef. All of a sudden, that flat iron steak isn't so appetizing.

Yeah, I know where you're coming from.

Still would be nice to shoot for 125hp liter. That's 462hp for a NA 3.7 at the crank.

I think the factory can do it. Then they would have to beef up the rest of the drive train $$$. Plus what about the warranty. LOL

370Z Purist · 10-18-2012, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Yeah, I know where you're coming from.

Still would be nice to shoot for 125hp liter. That's 462hp for a NA 3.7 at the crank.

I think the factory can do it. Then they would have to beef up the rest of the drive train $$$. Plus what about the warranty. LOL

We need to get on TVR's level.

Straight six, 4 Liter, 400 horsepower. NA. 100 hp per liter would be gold. This was stock, too!

Too bad TVR is dead.... damned smolensky.

gabe3d · 10-18-2012, 09:04 PM

This is good news and hopefully fairs better than BMW's valvetronic (the exact same as VVEL but on the market since 2001) for aftermarket performance tuning. The tuners over at BMW have been mucking around with this for some time now and have had decent results, nothing amazing.

It's interesting to note that both Nissan and BMW decided to not use this technology on their high performance models, M series and GTR. However I think BMW started using this on their M trim Xseries and on some future normal Ms.

djtodd · 10-18-2012, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe3d

This is good news and hopefully fairs better than BMW's valvetronic (the exact same as VVEL but on the market since 2001) for aftermarket performance tuning. The tuners over at BMW have been mucking around with this for some time now and have had decent results, nothing amazing.

It's interesting to note that both Nissan and BMW decided to not use this technology on their high performance models, M series and GTR. However I think BMW started using this on their M trim Xseries and on some future normal Ms.

I suspect we won't see it around for long.

Funny how one of the first thing on the grand-am rulesheet for allowed modifications for the z34 is the z33 HR head swap

hughdogz · 10-19-2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe3d

This is good news and hopefully fairs better than BMW's valvetronic (the exact same as VVEL but on the market since 2001) for aftermarket performance tuning. The tuners over at BMW have been mucking around with this for some time now and have had decent results, nothing amazing.

I could be wrong, but I thought I saw a VVEL video that said it's superior to the Valvetronic since there's no valve springs that will float (harmonic resonance) and drop a valve at high RPM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe3d

It's interesting to note that both Nissan and BMW decided to not use this technology on their high performance models, M series and GTR. However I think BMW started using this on their M trim Xseries and on some future normal Ms.

Makes me wonder

djtodd · 10-19-2012, 11:03 PM

Yeah I read a good article a while back comparing vvel, valvetronic, and toyota's (can't remember name). A good read, but they all were a bit different. Toyota's seemed like the best approach, but that was about 30 minutes of reading on teh intarwebz, so what do I know!

jpritche · 10-19-2012, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtodd

yeah i read a good article a while back comparing vvel, valvetronic, and toyota's (can't remember name). A good read, but they all were a bit different. Toyota's seemed like the best approach, but that was about 30 minutes of reading on teh intarwebz, so what do i know!

vvt-i

Spikuh · 10-22-2012, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpritche

vvt-i

Vtech + stickers ftw!!!

gabe3d · 10-22-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtodd

Yeah I read a good article a while back comparing vvel, valvetronic, and toyota's (can't remember name). A good read, but they all were a bit different. Toyota's seemed like the best approach, but that was about 30 minutes of reading on teh intarwebz, so what do I know!

Didn't know that Toyota had something to VVEL, but after some research it's called Valvematic. However it doesn't seem like any of the Toyotas in the US has this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpritche

vvt-i

VVT-I is like nissan's VTC

XwChriswX · 10-28-2012, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe3d

Didn't know that Toyota had something to VVEL, but after some research it's called Valvematic. However it doesn't seem like any of the Toyotas in the US has this.

VVT-I is like nissan's VTC

I think VVT-I is more like VVEL...

Quote:

Automakers have addressed this concern with something called "variable valve timing" (VVT). The Toyota Tundra's i-Force 5.7L V8, Toyota's newest VVT-i engine, has the ability to vary the timing of the valves in relation to engine speed. It does this by using engine oil pressure to move the camshaft slightly, so that more aggressive lobe designs are used when the engine is running at a higher rpm. By doing this, the i-Force V8 is able to run a camshaft profile that provides good fuel efficiency in every day driving, but is still able to churn out gobs of power when the pedal is pressed to the floor.

The dual VVT-i in the Tundra takes things a step further by allowing the exhaust and intake valves to open at the same time at very high RPMs in order to scavenge the airflow as much as possible. This all adds up to a V8 engine that produces 381 horsepower at 5600 rpm while still generating 401 lb-ft of torque at as low as 3600 rpm. Not only that, but in the 2 wheel drive models, the Tundra gets a respectable 20 miles per gallon on the highway. Perhaps most importantly, Toyota's variable valve timing system lets you have killer horsepower without getting killed at the gas pump.

10-17-2012, 12:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7335	Direct injection, higher compression ratio, stroke it to 3.8-4.0L and it will be putting over 400 crank hp. With bolt on mods, we are getting around 400 crank hp. I just want to see evolution from design to design with a meaningful impact on performance. 100hp per liter is Honda talk because their cars are slow unless you build them for boost, even then their power range is like 6k-9k and that's it. We can get that 100 hp per liter with an exhaust, TP's/HFC's and an intake. FPenvy and chknhawk like this. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

10-17-2012, 05:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nixlimited A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,235 Drives: 15 GT-R / 11 Prius Rep Power: 26	Is short stroke the reason you get no power until later in the rev band? __________________ Car Sold! Pleasure being a part of the Z community. New ride: 2015 GT-R - 647 WHP / 641 WTQ (e85) & 543 WHP / 519 WTQ (91)

10-18-2012, 03:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7335	Motorcycles are indeed a different story. I say Honda talk because it sounds better than it really is for them. It's kinda like steak... Steak is good, Honda's are a flat iron steak, and Ferrari's are Kobe Beef. To Honda guys, steak is steak... until you can actually afford Kobe beef. All of a sudden, that flat iron steak isn't so appetizing. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
VVEL Cracking?	antivirus6613	Engine & Drivetrain	165	12-15-2011 01:20 PM
Found Possible Fix To VVEL	Nabi	Tuning	35	10-23-2011 06:13 PM
Vvel ????	pokeyl	Tuning	8	06-01-2011 03:33 PM
VVEL Tuning	KEVTEX	Tuning	20	10-08-2010 11:23 PM
Vvel	destinyZ	Engine & Drivetrain	13	09-19-2010 06:32 PM

10-18-2012, 09:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
gabe3d Base Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Fresno, Ca Posts: 51 Drives: Old school G Rep Power: 14	This is good news and hopefully fairs better than BMW's valvetronic (the exact same as VVEL but on the market since 2001) for aftermarket performance tuning. The tuners over at BMW have been mucking around with this for some time now and have had decent results, nothing amazing. It's interesting to note that both Nissan and BMW decided to not use this technology on their high performance models, M series and GTR. However I think BMW started using this on their M trim Xseries and on some future normal Ms.

10-19-2012, 11:03 PM	#11 (permalink)
djtodd Track Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 932 Drives: 2012 Nismo TT Rep Power: 3398	Yeah I read a good article a while back comparing vvel, valvetronic, and toyota's (can't remember name). A good read, but they all were a bit different. Toyota's seemed like the best approach, but that was about 30 minutes of reading on teh intarwebz, so what do I know!