With a tuner version available, and with what I'm hearing shops charge to tune, I don't know why anyone with some knowledge on how tuning works wouldn't get the tuner version.

I'm tempted myself, but I swore I'd leave this car alone for the most part and the last thing I need is the ability to tune it myself :eek:

Well, I went with the Tuner license, and I enjoy playing around with it and customizing things sometimes. But honestly, for most cases it's probably not worth the cash versus just going to a Tuner shop and having them set things up once the way you want it, and going back once in a blue moon for a quick checkup/re-tune.

Mostly I say this because as I've come to better understand how tuning works on this ECU, I've realized that for most bolt-on/NA applications the car is mostly self-tuning to begin with. A tune will optimize things a bit in terms of setting ideal AF targets (basic power/economy/emissions tradeoff decisions) and moving the initial conception of timing closer to where it will end up from self-tuning most of the time so that it gets on-target faster after resets or environmental changes.

But really, once the car is running it's maintaining those AF targets via its own wideband O2 feedback + MAF sensors, and it's dynamically adjusting timing based on temps and knock-sensor feedback. Things get a little more optimal from a tune, but it's not like the car will ever be hugely off-target or endangering itself no matter what you do with simple bolt-ons.

And if you step out into the world of forced induction type stuff where you really *need* a tune, you probably want your installer/tuner doing all of that setup anyways. No point adding in the personality liability of you tweaking their tune and causing failure.