Originally Posted by wstar Maybe you just need to slow down and rethink how you're posting. Read what you're posting before you hit that button. You realize if you talked
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07-31-2009, 03:23 PM | #46 (permalink) | |
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Perhaps there is hope for us to get along here yet....so let's just put this one behind us and both of us accept the fact that we both share an intent to promote the "Z" and that we both come at it from different directions. I deleted all the insult posts I made the last day or so in this thread as a metaphoric olive-branch offering to you that I am listening to what it is you are saying. And I offer to you an apology for going over the top... Last edited by ZKindaGuy; 07-31-2009 at 03:43 PM. |
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07-31-2009, 05:49 PM | #47 (permalink) |
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I'm still lost at that hp-per dollar thing though. I mean. More horsepower alone doesn't mean you'll be any faster than the next car. There's more to mods than just power. Some people have money to blow.
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08-01-2009, 01:47 AM | #48 (permalink) |
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It's funny how you guys are fighting about "ROI" & "Investments."
Cars & Mods are never "investments" & doesn't return or make you any money for the average consumer. So stop fighting about the stupid "Wow you spent $5k for 47hp, terrible investment" |
08-02-2009, 09:46 PM | #49 (permalink) | |
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I was discussing with a bunch of hard core (about a dozen) Mustang folks at a show yesteday about this particular argument that was going on. Now some of these people I knew and some I never met before in my life. And they all agreed that $25 to $30 per HP gained is the acceptable measure to use when figurring out mod costs in order to tell if you are getting ripped-off or not by the vendors. I am NOT trying to belabor this point but I was checking with them whether anything had changed since 1997 when I first started getting into modding my cars. And nothing has changed. The figures I quoted are still considered to be the same figures used for making a determination as to whether the potential gain in HP is worth the money you spend obtaining that HP. So I am going to leave this figure up here for those folks who want to have a measuring stick to use in the future when trying to determine is a mod or mods are going to be worth doing dollar-wise. You can't go wrong with this measuring stick as it has lots of support from folks you spend their summers at the tracks testing their modifications. To those folks who want to throw away there money then all I can say is...can you send me some of that cash you don't care blowing? |
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08-02-2009, 10:34 PM | #50 (permalink) | |
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08-02-2009, 11:12 PM | #51 (permalink) | |
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You also seem to throw out the cost of the car itself. That's a big factor. Those 167mph 1/4 gallardos are expensive. Their turbo kits are over $30,000. Sure you can go faster for cheaper in an old stang but who cares? You just went 8 seconds in the 1/4 in a Lambo. Also, this is a brand new car with a brand new motor. Of course the prices will be sky high right now. Just wait until the car gets more popular and such. I don't agree with hp vs. cost at all. I rather have results. So many factors in between and around your cost vs. hp equation. Would you like to see a video of a 715whp Evo just DESTROY a 1000whp Corvette? Power band, suspension, gearing, tires, aerodynamics, weight, driving skill and a whole bunch of other ****. But cost vs. hp is most important, not results, lol. Also, a LOT of you missed when he said he had an exhaust mod done on his baseline. The baseline would have been much lower if it were stock. Therefore the gains would have looked a lot higher as well. Last edited by KingDavid; 08-02-2009 at 11:19 PM. |
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08-03-2009, 01:49 PM | #52 (permalink) | |
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My post is about pricepoint. And yes I know it is an arbitrary number around which to plan mods but in the musclecar world it is a number that most HARDCORE mod-heads who spend their lives at the track beyond the weekend warrior stuff. The general rule is unless you have very deep pockets or sponsors the price-point per HP is between $25 and $30. I am talking strictly from a price perspective as a guage for your wallet. And you cannot even begin to make an argument that spending $5000 to make 47 additional HP is cost-effective by any means...and I don't care what his exhaust baseline would have been as it more than likely wouldn't be enough on the plus side ( 20 HP addition perhaps) to even make that much difference in the cost per horse ($84 / HP).....use your COMMON SENSE man and JUST LOOK at the amount of the damn money that was spent to make 47 HP. 47 HP @ $5000.00 ??????? Last edited by ZKindaGuy; 08-03-2009 at 01:53 PM. |
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08-03-2009, 02:16 PM | #53 (permalink) | ||
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WTF?! Take a look here. Quote:
I'm going to search for the prices of the parts myself because I do not see how the combination of all of that is anywhere near 5 grand...And that's without headers. Last edited by KingDavid; 08-03-2009 at 02:18 PM. |
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08-03-2009, 02:26 PM | #54 (permalink) |
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Stillen G3 intakes: $549
STILLEN : STILLEN Generation 3 Ultra Long Tube Dual Intake Kit Stillen headers: $786 STILLEN : STILLEN 350Z / G35 / G37 / 370Z Headers Stillen exhaust: $1575 (Ok seriously, for an exhaust system?! I'd go custom, lol. I think this is where most of the money went) STILLEN : STILLEN 370Z Dual Exhaust System So it's now $2910. I don't know how much hfc's are because I can't find them. So I'll give it $300 (is that a fair price? EDIT: **** my life, $570 for hiflow cats...Give me test pipes.). So $3480, as proven should make at least 55whp I added the headers into the equation though so it should be a bit more whp. $700 for the ECU and dyno time. So now it's $4180. For what SHOULD have been over 55 whp as claimed by the company that made the products on phimosis' car. Without a tune. I don't know where 5gs came in...Labor? And I don't know where his power went. Maybe the guys at Stillen can chime in. So in a jist, $2697 = 55whp (dyno proven by stillen), WITHOUT headers. Maybe the tune? Lol, I dunno. Last edited by KingDavid; 08-03-2009 at 02:31 PM. |
08-03-2009, 04:30 PM | #55 (permalink) |
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I believe 5k included labor to do all the installs? Headers are NOT easy on this car.
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08-04-2009, 08:06 AM | #56 (permalink) |
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intake: $549
Headers: $786 HFC's: $573 exhaust: $1575 8.75% Sales Tax: $305 Install: $800 ECU re-map: $500 Dyno time: $200 Total: $5288. But, I got some of the parts on sale at Stillen, so it was a little cheaper. BTW, you guys can set here and rant all you want about how much power I should get and how much it costs, etc., but as I've said in a post earlier in this thread: This is not a mustang. I've owned 3 of them. This car does not make 60 hp per liter. Squeezing performance gains out of a high strung engine will not be as cheap. Hell, for $5000 you can go buy a 10 year old mustang and mod it so it will be faster than my Z. Do I care? Nope. Not one bit. The purpose of my initial post was not to brag about how much money I have to spend or to belittle Stillen because my car didn't get the same gains on the dyno as what they advertise. It was simply a real world exercise to show people what it will cost and what they should expect if they do this to their car. I hate to say it, but I'm going to unsubscribe from my own thread because of all the immature bickering going on in here. I used to have arguments like this with my brother back when I was in highschool. But that was 20 years ago. Enough. |
08-05-2009, 12:35 PM | #57 (permalink) | |
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Communiation doesn't require having to agree with the point another person has presented and there certainly is no requirement that you have to join hands and sing KUMBAYA around the campfire. I learned this from wstar earlier in this thread so why don't you give it a shot and just learn to tolerate disagreements. No one here has leveled any personal threats againt me in their posting so why are you doing a "spray and pray" with your remark about "immature bickering"? |
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08-11-2009, 06:45 PM | #58 (permalink) |
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BTW, if go to Stillen and buy a bunch, ask for a Package price.
I took my car to a tuner, going to get Stillen Headers, HFC, Gen 3 intake, grounding kit and Under pulley. I already had the Stillen exhaust on but nothing else for go. Did change suspension and brakes but they don't affect HP. After I left the car, the dyno guy did a baseline run. They have some "pack" that they use. The results were 270 ft-lbs, 334 WHP. I'm going to try and attach the output but I wouldn't hold my breath on it. Anyway, I though the numbers were a bit high. |
08-11-2009, 07:02 PM | #59 (permalink) | |
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08-11-2009, 07:05 PM | #60 (permalink) |
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You guys need sponsors... teehee
Stillen HFC Stllen CBE Stillen GenIII intake JWT Clutch JWT Flywheel B&M Short Shifter SS brake lines ECU reflash + dyno tuned to death Oil cooler Tanabe GF210 springs Axis wheels Cover of a magazine (ok... that one doesn't belong but ) Total cost out of my pocket: around $2,600. And there's more to come... |
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