Found Possible Fix To VVEL

Nabi · 10-21-2011, 02:40 PM

I've been doing some search lately to solve our VVEL issue, I found this company online that offers complete CAN BUS software’s and Interfaces.
They also offer Engineering services maybe we can start a Group Buy and contract them to offer us new software for our cars I’m not good at negotiating so I will leave it to someone with a better idea of what we need to do the negotiations. Here is a link to their web page they look super LEGIT.

Vector: Software + Services for Automotive Engineering

V8Killer · 10-21-2011, 02:46 PM

Sounds interesting.

m4a1mustang · 10-21-2011, 02:56 PM

Lots of wishful thinking needed for a company like that to do a ECU development group buy with a forum.

A good thought, though.

wstar · 10-21-2011, 03:00 PM

Yeah UpRev is undoubtedly miles ahead of the game already. If anyone's going to sort it out, it's them.

Red__Zed · 10-21-2011, 03:01 PM

Doesnt look like they're in the tuning market to start off with...but the nre costs associated with development and testing would be huge. You'd probably need a huge lineup to even get them to think about it...

Jeffblue · 10-21-2011, 03:02 PM

can someone remind me why vvel is a problem that needs to be fixed?

Nabi · 10-21-2011, 03:06 PM

Maybe we don't need them to create new software they already have it we just need them to point us to our VVEL maps. The software they have is Perfect for anyone if Z1 or GTM gets a hold of it they will know what to do.
I spoke with SAM a while back and he told me the reason he stoped trying is because he did not have the means to create the software from scratch, but if UPREV would give him the rigth tools he would be able to tune VVEL. So if we can all Chip in get Z1 or GTM this software they can use it.

Jeffblue · 10-21-2011, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

can someone remind me why vvel is a problem that needs to be fixed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nabi

Maybe we don't need them to create new software they already have it we just need them to point us to our VVEL maps. The software they have is Perfect for anyone if Z1 or GTM gets a hold of it they will know what to do.
I spoke with SAM a while back and he told me the reason he stoped trying is because he did not have the means to create the software from scratch, but if UPREV would give him the rigth tools he would be able to tune VVEL. So if we can all Chip in get Z1 or GTM this software they can use it.

.... i'll ask again

theDreamer · 10-21-2011, 03:24 PM

You are assuming that VVEL is a problem then?
When what Uprev has reported so far VVEL is pushing itself almost to the limit from factory already, if you want to encourage something ask a few companies to make exhaust cams for our car and see what that does to our tuning.

Rui Z · 10-21-2011, 03:25 PM

I would do a group buy if I can get more than +1 hp/$50 with a minimum of 20 additional horses without increasing the rev limiter.

Nabi · 10-21-2011, 03:31 PM

Relax,
I meant the VVEL tunning issue, I never meant that VVEL is the issue.
and if i knew i was going to get such negative feed back I would have never post it up. I only did because every time i read a VVEL thread 90% of the posts are people wishing there was a tuning solution.

theDreamer · 10-21-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nabi

Relax,
I meant the VVEL tunning issue, I never meant that VVEL is the issue.
and if i knew i was going to get such negative feed back I would have never post it up. I only did because every time i read a VVEL thread 90% of the posts are people wishing there was a tuning solution.

The reason is because people believe that with being able to adjust VVEL you will gain a good percent of power when in reality it might be a few HP which can scale with force induction.

Red__Zed · 10-21-2011, 03:46 PM

More to the point--software is an easy fix. Actually making adjustments requires a ton of time to experiment(and risking the engine)

wstar · 10-21-2011, 04:23 PM

I'm not an ECU developer, but I am a software developer and I've dug around a lot of the public info about how this stuff works, what UpRev is looking at, and what's possible with Nissan proprietary interfaces, etc. From that company's descriptions on their website, if they could do anything for us, it might be to develop software for us that speaks all the right protocols that's (a) More capable that Cipher, closer to the dealerships' Consult interface, and (b) Cheaper and more available than actually buying Consult. But this would still be basic data logging and ECU controls, it wouldn't be replacement ECU software itself. Not that they probably don't have people of that sort of talent on board, but it's probably not what they specialize in doing (reverse engineering and replacing portions of the ECU software).

What UpRev is doing is exactly that: they're disassembling the ECU's software and reverse engineering it to find out how it works on the inside, and then releasing aftermarket customized versions of this software that allow realtime (and fixed) re-tuning of tables and parameters. It takes a *lot* of reverse engineering and development time to do this and produce a reliable ROM that doesn't screw the car up, and UpRev has been on the task for a while through generations of Nissan cars, and especially for quite a while on our cars.

It just doesn't add up that this other generic company that happens to work on CAN-bus protocol stuff and whatnot is going to catch up and do better than them at this, when it's not even their target market.

1slow370 · 10-22-2011, 08:39 AM

i don't think uprev even wants to try to care. I want to know if you jack up the vvel curve can you actually hit the pistons? does sam have an extra block and set of heads lying around somewhere where he could throw some clay on the pistons, slap the head on, time it, use a crescent wrench to turn the vvel fulcrum shaft all the way open and turn the bitch over to see if it actually can touch and determine the clearance? then advance and retard the timing all the way (maybe just do it with the chain?) and turn it over again to see if it hits. why don't we start here. because if nissan built enough clearance into the system well then uprev has just been lying out their @sses the whole time.

10-21-2011, 02:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
Nabi Base Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Miami Posts: 17 Drives: nissan 370z Rep Power: 14	Found Possible Fix To VVEL I've been doing some search lately to solve our VVEL issue, I found this company online that offers complete CAN BUS software’s and Interfaces. They also offer Engineering services maybe we can start a Group Buy and contract them to offer us new software for our cars I’m not good at negotiating so I will leave it to someone with a better idea of what we need to do the negotiations. Here is a link to their web page they look super LEGIT. Vector: Software + Services for Automotive Engineering

10-21-2011, 02:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
V8Killer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Newport, NC Posts: 1,127 Drives: It Hard Till It Pops Rep Power: 16	Sounds interesting. __________________ "Punch" Too much to list and a baby shot of nitrous....

10-21-2011, 02:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Lots of wishful thinking needed for a company like that to do a ECU development group buy with a forum. A good thought, though. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

10-21-2011, 03:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Yeah UpRev is undoubtedly miles ahead of the game already. If anyone's going to sort it out, it's them. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

10-21-2011, 03:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	You are assuming that VVEL is a problem then? When what Uprev has reported so far VVEL is pushing itself almost to the limit from factory already, if you want to encourage something ask a few companies to make exhaust cams for our car and see what that does to our tuning. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

10-21-2011, 03:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 120	Doesnt look like they're in the tuning market to start off with...but the nre costs associated with development and testing would be huge. You'd probably need a huge lineup to even get them to think about it...

10-21-2011, 03:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jeffblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Age: 36 Posts: 9,192 Drives: Z32TT & 335xi Coupe Rep Power: 38	can someone remind me why vvel is a problem that needs to be fixed?

10-21-2011, 03:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
Nabi Base Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Miami Posts: 17 Drives: nissan 370z Rep Power: 14	Maybe we don't need them to create new software they already have it we just need them to point us to our VVEL maps. The software they have is Perfect for anyone if Z1 or GTM gets a hold of it they will know what to do. I spoke with SAM a while back and he told me the reason he stoped trying is because he did not have the means to create the software from scratch, but if UPREV would give him the rigth tools he would be able to tune VVEL. So if we can all Chip in get Z1 or GTM this software they can use it.

10-21-2011, 03:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
Rui Z Track Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: (.)(.) Posts: 931 Drives: 8====D Rep Power: 16	I would do a group buy if I can get more than +1 hp/$50 with a minimum of 20 additional horses without increasing the rev limiter. __________________ Last edited by Rui Z; 10-21-2011 at 03:28 PM.

10-21-2011, 03:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
Nabi Base Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Miami Posts: 17 Drives: nissan 370z Rep Power: 14	Relax, I meant the VVEL tunning issue, I never meant that VVEL is the issue. and if i knew i was going to get such negative feed back I would have never post it up. I only did because every time i read a VVEL thread 90% of the posts are people wishing there was a tuning solution.

10-21-2011, 03:46 PM	#13 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 120	More to the point--software is an easy fix. Actually making adjustments requires a ton of time to experiment(and risking the engine)

10-21-2011, 04:23 PM	#14 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	I'm not an ECU developer, but I am a software developer and I've dug around a lot of the public info about how this stuff works, what UpRev is looking at, and what's possible with Nissan proprietary interfaces, etc. From that company's descriptions on their website, if they could do anything for us, it might be to develop software for us that speaks all the right protocols that's (a) More capable that Cipher, closer to the dealerships' Consult interface, and (b) Cheaper and more available than actually buying Consult. But this would still be basic data logging and ECU controls, it wouldn't be replacement ECU software itself. Not that they probably don't have people of that sort of talent on board, but it's probably not what they specialize in doing (reverse engineering and replacing portions of the ECU software). What UpRev is doing is exactly that: they're disassembling the ECU's software and reverse engineering it to find out how it works on the inside, and then releasing aftermarket customized versions of this software that allow realtime (and fixed) re-tuning of tables and parameters. It takes a lot of reverse engineering and development time to do this and produce a reliable ROM that doesn't screw the car up, and UpRev has been on the task for a while through generations of Nissan cars, and especially for quite a while on our cars. It just doesn't add up that this other generic company that happens to work on CAN-bus protocol stuff and whatnot is going to catch up and do better than them at this, when it's not even their target market. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

10-22-2011, 08:39 AM	#15 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	i don't think uprev even wants to try to care. I want to know if you jack up the vvel curve can you actually hit the pistons? does sam have an extra block and set of heads lying around somewhere where he could throw some clay on the pistons, slap the head on, time it, use a crescent wrench to turn the vvel fulcrum shaft all the way open and turn the bitch over to see if it actually can touch and determine the clearance? then advance and retard the timing all the way (maybe just do it with the chain?) and turn it over again to see if it hits. why don't we start here. because if nissan built enough clearance into the system well then uprev has just been lying out their @sses the whole time. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 10-22-2011 at 08:41 AM.

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