Smooth Throttle for UpRev

juicinjake

i might be able to offer some insight as to why they did this. i just got my vhr car a month ago and have yet to mess with tuning it, but i have extensive r&d/tuning experience with a radical revup combination that i developed outside the light of the public forums. i tune this car myself using an aem infinity standalone ecu. the car uses a large single ported 87mm gm throttle body (along with a custom intake manifold that i also built) which brings its inlet airflow cross-sectional area on par with that of the hr and vhr. prior to this i attempted to make this work on the stock ecu and found the limits of the system, as well as experienced a lot of the frustrations you guys have been going through with this, minus the vvel connection. it becomes apparent after messing with it for a while that what uprev supplies you as a throttle map doesnt exactly directly control the throttle like you wish it would. in fact that map literally does nothing anytime the ecu sees that the engine is operating within the idle range. that said, what everyone always wants with regards to throttle control is what the standalones provide... a throttle position vs pedal position/rpm map. now, given that i have been able to experiment with a comparable amount of inlet airflow (potential) as the hr/vhr cars, but with the ability to control the throttle in this fashion, i can see why the power delivery is designed to be s-shaped. i was able to set the throttle table up, relative to pedal position, in a completely linear fashion with the aem. what might not be readily apparent is that the engine doesnt necessarily increase its airflow potential relative to throttle position. so, what you find with a big 87, or a pair of 60's, with a truly linear throttle curve is that it is way, way, way too responsive at low throttle angles to the point that it makes low speed maneuvering jerky and awkward, while shifting becomes annoying, uncontrollable and unpredictable. i have a triple carbon disc clutch that without the rjm bracket is more or less an on/off switch. the bracket allows you to slip the clutch effectively enough for the car to drive and shift closer to that of a stockish car. well, that all goes out the window if the engine response is ultra sensitive at low throttle angles. what i did to fix this was dampen the throttle response, relative to sub-50% pedal position below 4k. the map is setup such that the x-axis is rpm and the y-axis is pedal percentage... while the map content is throttle position. with my gearing/tire combination all cruising and general commuting is done under 4k, so this works out very well. i rev to 8k, with the real meat of powerband beginning a little after 5k. throttle response is practically instantaneous on my setup. its very easy to get into the powerband when you want to. this way, any time you are more than 50% into the pedal, regardless of rpm, the car acts as if it has a cable throttle control... yet it is predictable at low throttle angles and rpms and easy to move slowly and shift. i sold my uprev cable prior to buying my aem, not knowing i would have a vhr car in another few months. i plan on buying uprev again and experimenting with this very sort of thing (although im "supposed to be leaving the car alone"). hopefully, once i can tune this new car/engine and gain some experience with this new cam timing/throttle control arrangement i can be more helpful. great job so far guys, this thread made a very interesting read!

maxjix

left : 09 g37 sedan
right : 09 g37 coupe

All of the tables is the same

but
Throttle enhancement table are different.

V1H

Hi juicinjake
Interesting story. You seem to have the right expertise with throttle map tuning to get us all a step forward with how to best program the UpRev throttle map.
Looking fwd to hearing more

Awgd8

Juicinjake,

Thanks for the info. We hope you get that Uprev cable/license soon. =). Check with Seymore4 here if you are ready to buy an Uprev. He is an Uprev pro tuner /Etuner and also sells Uprev. He could give you a better pricing.

Just so you know, I do not have throttle lag using one of my Modified wstar MAPs(AWGD).
As long as the RPM is at 2K and up, the power is instant. It does feel like a throttle cable, which shows on that initial very steep curve I made that start at 25% flow potential. (Pls. See V1H posted Line Graph) . The throttle is responsive once you hit 1/4 pedal push.
Also, I made less aggressive throttle opening on RPM's that is less than 2K. I realized why would I make the throttle open early when the car is cruising or idling? (Such a waste of gas.... More air more gas to mix)

My car does not have a close gearing ratio like the G37 , so I needed an aggressive throttle at lower RPM band, but if my MAP is too aggressive for the G37 at lower RPM, all you need to do is put that steep curve at around 50% flow potential. This way, the pedal gets heavier and responsive at close to 1/2 pedal push. This is good for tracking/racing, but not my preference for DD. My ideal setup for street use is a good throttle response start at 2K for off the line roll. My VQ35HR is a slug from stoplight until it reach 3k RPM. This is just a normal roll from the stoplight. I noticed a corolla seems to have a better pickup on initial roll with less effort than my HR engine... =) I have driven some loaner G37 sedan before and I know how close the gearing ratio on the first 3 or 4 gears. I hated it at first since it took a nano second to shift from 1st to 2nd. LOL! But I love the 3rd gear on that car.

I hope you can go back using Uprev and chime in here with your expertise...

ANMVQ

awgd8, I love my 3rd also, I wish my tune wasn't locked and I could help contribute to this I have been following this since day one. great thread and GREAT work ! To have our cars act like a cable throttle car would be awesome, I so hate the FLOOR it from a dig and the car says "OH WAIT a second you have the pedal all the way down" Tho if I go 1/4 throttle and slowly mash it the car seems to accelerate faster. That's just hard to do LOL wanna smash it !

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Awgd8

So, there is no way they can give your the code for your tune? Though, might not be a good idea, but tell them you waive their responsibility if your car goes kaboom! =) Kidding aside, it is only the throttle you are playing with. I changed my throttle MAP so many times and flashed my car maybe close to 40x or more and never had a single issue. I just let Seymore4 do my fuel ratio and sometimes when summer or winter comes, I add or lessen the fuel table on the high load /WOT (wide open throttle / pedal 2 d metal) rpm side of the table. I noticed that when season change, my Summer WOT AFR is spot on at 12.8- 12.9:1 but gets lean at 13.6- 13.9:1 on WOT during Winter time . Winter season has denser / cooler air = more air , you add more fuel so it does not run lean. Summer time , thin air /warm = less air you lessen the fuel so it wont run too rich. If I tune my car on winter, I have to lean out (lower fuel) table during summer to get the same 12.8-12.9:1 WOT AFR of the winter tune. I heard some techs says it does not matter since the ECu will adjust, but I did experiment it for 2 winter/fall and 2 summers by data logging my runs.. It does change the WOT AFR with winter and summer season
That is the reason why I have this Uprev Map setting like this below.

MAP1 : Performance Summer My throttle Awgd8 Blend 12.8-9 WOT
MAP2 : Valet mode 3K RPM max.
MAP3 : Fuel Economy (seymore4 tuned) with stock EX35 throttle.
MAP4 : Performance Summer wstar throttle.
MAP5 : Performance Winter Wstar throttle 12.8-9 WOT

I am not sure if also the winter fuel vs the summer fuel has significant impact on Performance too!

You will definitely feel a big difference on how the throttle react on just my AWGD8 Map 1. You only have to press the pedal at 1/4 throttle and it goes right away. I cannot imagine using my MAP with a close gearing ratio like the G37. Maybe just use the D or DS mode for smoother acceleration from the dig.
Though, MAP Awgd8 # 1 is very close to wstar Map, it just that you only have to press it less or around 1/4 pedal push to feel the torque or responsiveness. It is instant once you push at 2K RPM at the right gear.

I wish someone test my MAP and see how it feels. So far I might have to remove the Map AWGD8 # 3 since it is too aggressive on the lowend and strained a bit towards the midrange ( on my car ) Maybe yours is different. I highly recommend testing my AWGD8 MAPs. # 2 and # Blend 2/3.

So far one member (merkil) commented on my Awgd MAP # 1 post # 276

juicinjake

i see that you figured out the same thing i did... that basically, you really wanna tailor the throttle curve around the individual low speed and cruising operating band so that you find the perfect mix of driveability and response. my g35 is geared more aggressively, even with a much larger tire than my 370... thus my threshold is a little higher. i cant wait to try your map out on my car and see how it feels. i get that lag and that lazy *** clutch response fixed and ill be much happier with my car!

Awgd8

Hi guys! I just want to verify your G37 1:1 gear ratio (4th gear?) and see how does the RPM tach behave at 60MPH and floor it .... Does it kind of shoot up from less than 3K and stays in 3K while your gunning it and sloooowly creeps above 3K RPM ? Or does the tach shoot up above 3K RPM right away like how the 3rd gear behaves....?

Also, lets say you red line in 3rd gear and shift to 4th, how low does the RPM dropped after shifting to 4th gear? Or whatever 1:1 gear ratio you have in the car.

I like to verify this bec. I did try to merged in the highway this morning and floored it in 3rd gear and when I shift at 4th, the car is pulling , but my tach kind of stay longer in 3K RPM and very slow to rev up above 3K as it pulls or gain speed. I do not remember this instances since I hardly floor or gun my throttle on 4th. MY car has 5 A/T tranny so 4th is my 1:1 gear ratio. 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear Tachometer bounces up quickly like a horny rabbit, but 4th seems slower...

juicinjake

whats is the stall speed on your converter? it sounds like your transmission was slipping up until stall speed like its supposed to... until you got enough speed to lock up in that gear. when you did your revs started climbing with respect to your speed again. prior to that your speed was climbing but your rpm was holding constant (indicating slippage). that said, thats perhaps slightly more relative to the older domestic automatics that i actually have experience with. modern transmissions with electronic control units really are designed to vary the line pressure to smooth a lot of that out. perhaps what has happened was that in all this throttle and vvel tuning, your base fuel schedule for a given rpm range has increased/decreased due to running a larger/smaller cam profile at that speed and therefore requiring more/ess fuel. this means that the value plugged into your calculated load map is now off and that can affect transmission performance. log your calculated load and base fuel schedule and make sure thats not off anywhere... especially in that 3k range where you are experiencing the slip. if all that checks out id say that your converter is just slipping, as intended, to allow the engine to get up into its powerband. the only reason u notice it in 1:1 and not the other gears is because its a long gear. in the lower gears you probably accelerate past that point of slippage quicker and dont even notice it.

Jordo!

What exactly do those tables seem to do?

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bleunetizen

im not sure whether im dull as sh1t but i could not feel any difference to any of those throttle maps posted.. what does it really improve? response? or is it mainly for auto transmission cars?

However I liked the ETC off. Wonder if uprev can have it moved to a selected map rather than global setting so we can get a choice of turning it on or off on the fly..

Jordo!

Probably the easiest way would be to have identical ROM's loaded for map 1 and 2, with the only difference being ETC on for one and off for the other.

Then switching is just a matter of using the cruise control buttons

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roplusbee

Can you do that per map? I was under the impression that it was global. I remember talking to Omar about it and he told me that you would get no throttle at all without ETC enabled. I asked him to disable it so that the throttle control would be more like 1:1, but he said that it didn't work that way. I hope he was wrong and that does work for this application, but that would be a bit frightening if he would make a mistake like that AND he has been tuning my car for quite some time now.

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bleunetizen

Yes,, but still cant tell the difference haha

turning ETC off was nice though. I think I will bring my laptop to the track or something so I can turn the ETC off while im there.. cuz I want the cruise control for the 3hr drive each way to/from the track.. haha

bleunetizen

You can disable the ETC and the car will drive just fine.. and yes I also do believe that it is global, hope either the throttle map can be modified to have same effiect or have it disabled per map..