Smooth Throttle for UpRev

Awgd8 · 05-13-2014, 11:24 AM

Good new info guys! So I have been using wstar throttle map for almost a year now. My only issue with Uprev is the inconsistency of how the tune stays there without the stock ECU inhibiting the Uprev full potential. One day car pulls harder from dead stop, another day it just flat out slow. This happened in any season of the year.

When my car was Etuned by Seymore, it was in the middle of hot summer, then found out about wstart throttle map at the start of fall and used it until now. With the change of season here in the midwest, it causes my original tuned A/F fuel ratio to get leaner (winter) , so I richen it a bit. Power was good, but still one day it lags one day it is peppy. Now comes spring season , and temp ranges from 40 to 70 F , so I logged some Cipher 0 to 60 run and still the car is a bit lean at 13.8:1 on WOT. The same MAP was dialed in at 12.8-12.9:1 on WOT summer time. So I asked Seymore recently to richen the car more. Now the car seems to pull harder just buy adding more fuel at 12:8 -12.9:1 and still using wstar throttle map. For a week now the tune is very consistent. It does not run flat in torque which start low 2K RPM and pulling harder at start top of 2k and above. Temp here is up and down from the range of 40 to 75 F . I wonder if the issue is UPREV not totally taking over the ECU parameters that Uprev already broke into?

As for Wstar throttle MAP, do you guys noticed if there is any throttle restriction from below 15MPH ? just curious? Right now throttle appears responsive at less than 1/4 pedal push.
I do not track the car (I have a 2008 EX35 crossover VQ35HR 5 Speed A/T ) , but I would like to have a touchy throttle pedal starts exactly at 2K RPM not 2.3K, but as wstar title of the thread goes, it says SMoooooth..... =) I guess I need to start a new thread title Uprev Touchy Pedal. =)

Jrb55gh, how do you like the ecutek etuned? I wonder if wstar throttle MAP can still be tuned better, due to dip in some RPM points per your observation?

Also, does anyone has an idea how to work on the Torque management table? I would like to see some hex data of your torque management table. So when the tranny slips on specific RPM or gears, i have to increase the number on that specific cell on the torque table? Pls. Clarify. Thanks!

Awgd8 · 05-13-2014, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esfourteen

I really need to get a hold of someone at uprev to help out with this, I'd really love to be able to drive with ETC on again. I updated uprev/rom, flashed wstar's map to map1 and stock to map2. map1 was useless as it was last time, no throttle anywhere. switched to map2 on the fly and did some tracing/logging, I see about 4.15v which was decent, felt like the throttle was almost fully open, cool. Start the car up to drive home and I'm back to the same issue I was a year ago, 2.4v when flooring it until 4k rpm, then BAM wide open throttle. I didn't touch the maps at all... days like today make me want to switch over to ecutek.

When was the last time you clean your throttle bodies? Maybe it is gummed up? The more filmed build up around the butterfly plates, the more the sensor adjust your baseline throttle and screw up the sensor reading? Not really sure if cleaning it might help? Just be careful not to open the plates when cleaning it. Work around while while it is close. It can be cleaned this way since I had done it once and I could feel the smooth acceleration after resetting the ECU using the pedal sequence reset.

Jordo! · 05-14-2014, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awgd8

Good new info guys! So I have been using wstar throttle map for almost a year now. My only issue with Uprev is the inconsistency of how the tune stays there without the stock ECU inhibiting the Uprev full potential. One day car pulls harder from dead stop, another day it just flat out slow. This happened in any season of the year.

When my car was Etuned by Seymore, it was in the middle of hot summer, then found out about wstart throttle map at the start of fall and used it until now. With the change of season here in the midwest, it causes my original tuned A/F fuel ratio to get leaner (winter) , so I richen it a bit. Power was good, but still one day it lags one day it is peppy. Now comes spring season , and temp ranges from 40 to 70 F , so I logged some Cipher 0 to 60 run and still the car is a bit lean at 13.8:1 on WOT. The same MAP was dialed in at 12.8-12.9:1 on WOT summer time. So I asked Seymore recently to richen the car more. Now the car seems to pull harder just buy adding more fuel at 12:8 -12.9:1 and still using wstar throttle map. For a week now the tune is very consistent. It does not run flat in torque which start low 2K RPM and pulling harder at start top of 2k and above. Temp here is up and down from the range of 40 to 75 F . I wonder if the issue is UPREV not totally taking over the ECU parameters that Uprev already broke into?

As for Wstar throttle MAP, do you guys noticed if there is any throttle restriction from below 15MPH ? just curious? Right now throttle appears responsive at less than 1/4 pedal push.
I do not track the car (I have a 2008 EX35 crossover VQ35HR 5 Speed A/T ) , but I would like to have a touchy throttle pedal starts exactly at 2K RPM not 2.3K, but as wstar title of the thread goes, it says SMoooooth..... =) I guess I need to start a new thread title Uprev Touchy Pedal. =)

Jrb55gh, how do you like the ecutek etuned? I wonder if wstar throttle MAP can still be tuned better, due to dip in some RPM points per your observation?

Also, does anyone has an idea how to work on the Torque management table? I would like to see some hex data of your torque management table. So when the tranny slips on specific RPM or gears, i have to increase the number on that specific cell on the torque table? Pls. Clarify. Thanks!

Hm. I am curious as to your gearing -- it's different that the 7AT's (as is the motor!), so that might factor into both responsiveness and any quirks that might crop up.

esfourteen · 05-14-2014, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awgd8

When was the last time you clean your throttle bodies? Maybe it is gummed up? The more filmed build up around the butterfly plates, the more the sensor adjust your baseline throttle and screw up the sensor reading? Not really sure if cleaning it might help? Just be careful not to open the plates when cleaning it. Work around while while it is close. It can be cleaned this way since I had done it once and I could feel the smooth acceleration after resetting the ECU using the pedal sequence reset.

My throttle bodies are squeaky clean, and completely unrelated to throttle on this car. For most driving scenarios the throttles are fully open and air intake is controlled using VVEL by adjusting lift, throttle % is just a simulated number.

1slow370 · 05-14-2014, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esfourteen

My throttle bodies are squeaky clean, and completely unrelated to throttle on this car. For most driving scenarios the throttles are fully open and air intake is controlled using VVEL by adjusting lift, throttle % is just a simulated number.

not quite entirely there is always some amount of throttle applied to create vacuum for the brake booster. this is why the car has two map sensors

Also could somebody with logging post up a graph of a 3,4, or 5 gear pull from 2k to 7500rpm on a warm engine logging tps, vvel, vvt with voltage on the vertical and rpm on the horizontal.

jrb55gh · 05-14-2014, 11:08 PM

Here is a data log from my Ecutek software of throttle pedal sensor and throttle opening sensor for several easy starts. It appears that the throttle roughly follows the throttle pedal and does not remain wide open. The pedal sensor voltage is in blue and the throttle opening sensor is in yellow. The second screenshot overlays the VVEL (magenta) and VVT (red). There is truly a lot going on with every movement of the throttle pedal.

Awgd8 · 05-17-2014, 10:25 PM

Pm

juld0zer · 05-22-2014, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Yeah the tip-in thing with lean fueling is definitely part of the problem on the stock setup. I somewhat remedied that on my car by going over to the A:F tables and making things a little over-rich in the low RPMs at low throttle. Upside is there's fuel available for that tip-in, downside is I get some occasional backfires when transitioning from engine braking back to neutral throttle at low RPMs and low throttle input (e.g. engine braking gently down to a stoplight and popping into neutral just as it's reaching the point where the engine would naturally start to lug out for being too low. If I don't time it just right, nice little fireball pops down the exhaust).

Are you saying you corrected your lean spots in that same A:F table, or elsewhere?

Can i trouble you to post up a screenshot of your A:F tables please? (either current or the backfiring one). How bad was the backfire? I dont mind a little crackle and pop

Thankyou for your time and effort in researching and refining something for the community to use. Likewise for Baer.

I've got both maps loaded at the moment and although i tried to tell myself to like Baer's one more because it is an 'upgrade' over wstar's (by no means inferior) and it reduced some of the low rpm lag for him. On tip in it actually felt worse. For example, parking the car using my normal light taps of the gas pedal and feathering the clutch almost resulted in stalling. I am running an underdriven crank pulley so that might be a factor too. During normal driving, Baer's map for me was noticeably more jerky. I thought a map designed for 7AT would feel weird on a 6MT, and a map designed for 6MT would be better for my car.

One thing i would like to note is that SRM for me while using wstar's map works much better than it ever has on my car!! I always thought the SRM feature on my car was a bit off compared to the numerous test drives i had before buying this one. It works so well that i even get a smooth engine braking action when going down gears. With Baer's map, i got a lot of jerky shifts - mainly upshifts though. Downshifting was not much different from stock. I dont think it's a coincidence because when switch between maps on the fly, the effect is instantly noticeable.

Again, i'm not saying either map is superior/inferior. For my driving style and personal preferences, wstar's map is my choice. I didnt have a chance to test out both maps at higher rpm (4000+).

Jordo! · 05-22-2014, 05:30 PM

^^^ It might also be worthwhile to log ST and LT fuel trims on tip-in or just before or after -- there may be some big transitions in the fueling that the ECU is trying to sort out.

juld0zer · 05-22-2014, 06:10 PM

i still need to get a windows netbook haha i've been using my 15" macbook pro which has USB ports on the left side only, on a RHD that means the screen faces the passenger's door

over what period of time should the datalogging be done?

Jordo! · 05-22-2014, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juld0zer

i still need to get a windows netbook haha i've been using my 15" macbook pro which has USB ports on the left side only, on a RHD that means the screen faces the passenger's door

over what period of time should the datalogging be done?

Maybe a big empty parking lot if you are launching it -- or anywhere where your commute would reflect stop and go driving. Basically, you just want to see what the ECU is doing on tip in or whenveer you have been feeling any hesitation.

juld0zer · 05-22-2014, 07:35 PM

is it true that each time you flash an update to the ECU, the fuel trims are reset?

I have to reset the damn pop up bonnet lamp every time i flash!

7speed · 05-22-2014, 07:58 PM

I still need to play with throttle mapping. Thanks for throttle tables.

ZeN · 05-23-2014, 12:29 AM

One question guys, can we take on these hex and post it straight onto ECUTEK table ? Or is it a totally different table altogether and not compatible. I would like to have the same throttle response but in ECUTEK, at least something to base on when i go to talk to my tuner later. I believe he didn't play around this table since it is the first time for him to tune 370z.

Note : I'm in Malaysia.

Jordo! · 05-23-2014, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeN

One question guys, can we take on these hex and post it straight onto ECUTEK table ? Or is it a totally different table altogether and not compatible. I would like to have the same throttle response but in ECUTEK, at least something to base on when i go to talk to my tuner later. I believe he didn't play around this table since it is the first time for him to tune 370z.

Note : I'm in Malaysia.

Theoretically, yes... the hexcode is what the ECU sees, so I would expect both ROM flashing softwares have to interpolate the same code in order to change the ECU maps. Just make sure you are pasting the code into the same table -- it's possible that ECUtek accesses different tables.

At least one of the maps posted here should have both hex and screen shot from uprev so you should be able to copy, paste, compare.

05-13-2014, 11:24 AM	#256 (permalink)
Awgd8 Base Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: WI Posts: 165 Drives: 2015 Q40 / 2008 EX35 Rep Power: 12	Good new info guys! So I have been using wstar throttle map for almost a year now. My only issue with Uprev is the inconsistency of how the tune stays there without the stock ECU inhibiting the Uprev full potential. One day car pulls harder from dead stop, another day it just flat out slow. This happened in any season of the year. When my car was Etuned by Seymore, it was in the middle of hot summer, then found out about wstart throttle map at the start of fall and used it until now. With the change of season here in the midwest, it causes my original tuned A/F fuel ratio to get leaner (winter) , so I richen it a bit. Power was good, but still one day it lags one day it is peppy. Now comes spring season , and temp ranges from 40 to 70 F , so I logged some Cipher 0 to 60 run and still the car is a bit lean at 13.8:1 on WOT. The same MAP was dialed in at 12.8-12.9:1 on WOT summer time. So I asked Seymore recently to richen the car more. Now the car seems to pull harder just buy adding more fuel at 12:8 -12.9:1 and still using wstar throttle map. For a week now the tune is very consistent. It does not run flat in torque which start low 2K RPM and pulling harder at start top of 2k and above. Temp here is up and down from the range of 40 to 75 F . I wonder if the issue is UPREV not totally taking over the ECU parameters that Uprev already broke into? As for Wstar throttle MAP, do you guys noticed if there is any throttle restriction from below 15MPH ? just curious? Right now throttle appears responsive at less than 1/4 pedal push. I do not track the car (I have a 2008 EX35 crossover VQ35HR 5 Speed A/T ) , but I would like to have a touchy throttle pedal starts exactly at 2K RPM not 2.3K, but as wstar title of the thread goes, it says SMoooooth..... =) I guess I need to start a new thread title Uprev Touchy Pedal. =) Jrb55gh, how do you like the ecutek etuned? I wonder if wstar throttle MAP can still be tuned better, due to dip in some RPM points per your observation? Also, does anyone has an idea how to work on the Torque management table? I would like to see some hex data of your torque management table. So when the tranny slips on specific RPM or gears, i have to increase the number on that specific cell on the torque table? Pls. Clarify. Thanks! Last edited by Awgd8; 05-13-2014 at 11:54 AM.

05-17-2014, 10:25 PM	#262 (permalink)
Awgd8 Base Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: WI Posts: 165 Drives: 2015 Q40 / 2008 EX35 Rep Power: 12	Pm Last edited by Awgd8; 05-05-2015 at 07:07 PM.

05-22-2014, 05:30 PM	#264 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	^^^ It might also be worthwhile to log ST and LT fuel trims on tip-in or just before or after -- there may be some big transitions in the fueling that the ECU is trying to sort out. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

05-22-2014, 07:58 PM	#268 (permalink)
7speed Track Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Dallas Posts: 697 Drives: 09 370 sports clone Rep Power: 13	I still need to play with throttle mapping. Thanks for throttle tables. __________________ 09 370z 6spd traded 1/12/15 for 15 Challenger RT 6spd

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05-14-2014, 11:08 PM	#261 (permalink)
jrb55gh Base Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: DFW Texas Posts: 149 Drives: '13 370z black 7AT Rep Power: 12	Here is a data log from my Ecutek software of throttle pedal sensor and throttle opening sensor for several easy starts. It appears that the throttle roughly follows the throttle pedal and does not remain wide open. The pedal sensor voltage is in blue and the throttle opening sensor is in yellow. The second screenshot overlays the VVEL (magenta) and VVT (red). There is truly a lot going on with every movement of the throttle pedal.

05-22-2014, 06:10 PM	#265 (permalink)
juld0zer Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Sydney Posts: 428 Drives: 11 Nissan 370Z MB M6 Rep Power: 139	i still need to get a windows netbook haha i've been using my 15" macbook pro which has USB ports on the left side only, on a RHD that means the screen faces the passenger's door over what period of time should the datalogging be done?

05-22-2014, 07:35 PM	#267 (permalink)
juld0zer Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Sydney Posts: 428 Drives: 11 Nissan 370Z MB M6 Rep Power: 139	is it true that each time you flash an update to the ECU, the fuel trims are reset? I have to reset the damn pop up bonnet lamp every time i flash!

05-23-2014, 12:29 AM	#269 (permalink)
ZeN Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Malaysia Posts: 116 Drives: 09 PW 7AT 370z Rep Power: 14	One question guys, can we take on these hex and post it straight onto ECUTEK table ? Or is it a totally different table altogether and not compatible. I would like to have the same throttle response but in ECUTEK, at least something to base on when i go to talk to my tuner later. I believe he didn't play around this table since it is the first time for him to tune 370z. Note : I'm in Malaysia.