Smooth Throttle for UpRev

Jordo! · 08-13-2012, 05:00 PM

Wstar -- any changes or updates to your throttle map? Have you tweaked it further or come up with any new insights?

Planning on trying it soon, and just wanted to know if there were any updates

Also, wondering if others who have tried it but don't have similar breathing mods (e.g., no headers) have found the map to work well or not? Herky Jerky? Flat spots?

wstar · 08-13-2012, 06:14 PM

Still running the same map here, I like it. I don't *think* it's the kind of thing that would change much with breathing mods, but I guess who knows. Gives me good throttle control in any case. Not as good as ETC Off, but w/ 7AT (or anyone who wants SRM and/or VDC to work) you can't do ETC off

Jordo! · 08-13-2012, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Still running the same map here, I like it. I don't *think* it's the kind of thing that would change much with breathing mods, but I guess who knows. Gives me good throttle control in any case. Not as good as ETC Off, but w/ 7AT (or anyone who wants SRM and/or VDC to work) you can't do ETC off

Thanks!

On another note, can you give me a run down again of what happens with ETC off?

wstar · 08-13-2012, 11:08 PM

If you set ETC Off in UpRev, the ECU doesn't get to manage/interfere with the throttle at all. It's still technically drive-by-wire of course, so the signal's going through the ECU. But whatever you do to the gas pedal is what it does for throttling the engine, and it feels exactly like a normal cabled throttle. It's perfect, except for the fact that the ECU can no longer intervene in any way. I know it kills SRM and at least the throttle part of VDC, and it probably kills the soft rev limiter as well (although you'd still get the hard fuel-cut one I think). If you're tracking a 6MT car and willing to never rely on SRM and do your own heel-toe, it's probably a good setting to use.

I meant to someday experiment with whether it's even possible (or practical) to time your own throttle blips on the 7AT with ETC Off and get shifting to still work right, but I never got around to it (and frankly I'm dubious of whether there would even be a consistent timing window to aim for).

Jordo! · 08-13-2012, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

If you set ETC Off in UpRev, the ECU doesn't get to manage/interfere with the throttle at all. It's still technically drive-by-wire of course, so the signal's going through the ECU. But whatever you do to the gas pedal is what it does for throttling the engine, and it feels exactly like a normal cabled throttle. It's perfect, except for the fact that the ECU can no longer intervene in any way. I know it kills SRM and at least the throttle part of VDC, and it probably kills the soft rev limiter as well (although you'd still get the hard fuel-cut one I think). If you're tracking a 6MT car and willing to never rely on SRM and do your own heel-toe, it's probably a good setting to use.

I meant to someday experiment with whether it's even possible (or practical) to time your own throttle blips on the 7AT with ETC Off and get shifting to still work right, but I never got around to it (and frankly I'm dubious of whether there would even be a consistent timing window to aim for).

Hmm. In the Uprev tuning guide it says the throttle becomes too touchy, even for track guys, and I thought it also disables the torque management map -- I'll have to play with that some time.

Oh, I tried your map, but it honestly felt a little under responsive to what I have currently, so I went back to my last map.

Any interest in trying mine? I can post it or PM it to you. Be curious to see what the curve looks like relative to your other plots.

wstar · 08-14-2012, 01:43 AM

Don't know about the torque management connection there w/ ETC Off, I never went back and played with it as I said.

As for the throttle map, well, throttle map is going to be a personal thing to some degree. I'm not sure what your criteria is for "under responsive". The point of my map wasn't to make the throttle jerky or snappy and give you a good butt feeling, it was to make it smooth and predictable while also removing the low-RPM limitations in the stock map. I think I mentioned in a much earlier post that some people would probably think the car felt slower on my map. It's smoother is all. The more you can smooth the map, the greater degree of control you have over the throttle at all ranges to finess the amount of torque you're applying in a given corner or whatever.

Some of my earlier maps and experiments resulted in what some would call snappy response, but it just made the car twitchy and then limited control in the rest of the range. For an exaggerated example: you could take the effective throttle range of the engine and put it all in the bottom 1/3 of the pedal. Very "responsive" initially, but then you're at full throttle with your foot 1/3 of the way down. The rest of the pedal travel is just pointless mashing, and it's 3 times harder to precisely control the throttle in the useful range. At least that would be predictable though. What's worse is a map that's just spiky. Alternating patterns of compressed and expanded ranges (graph goes up in chunks of uneven slope), leading to total unpredictability in practice.

Nothing you do to the throttle table changes the engine's capabilities. You're just changing how the pedal maps to the engine's range. In theory you can mostly do the same by changing how you move your foot (with the exception of the initial problem of the low-RPM throttle limitations).

If you want to send me (or just post here) the numbers from your last map, we can compare them and see how they plot differently. What was it from, a dyno shop? (and do you have your original as well?)

DIGItonium · 08-14-2012, 11:28 AM

I'm fine if it gets rid of the annoying surge in 1st, but still allow me to open it up. I tend to get the car moving at low revs. It's a weird habit.

I did try getting the car moving at higher revs and manage to burn the tires making a left turn with barely any throttle input. It was to get out of the flat spot with the A/C running.

red6spd · 08-14-2012, 11:54 AM

These cars are so weird. Sometimes I have no lag and it snaps my neck back others times I feel like I have 103hp LOL

Jordo! · 08-14-2012, 03:10 PM

I'll post screenshots of both later tonight

kenny's 370z · 08-14-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red6spd

These cars are so weird. Sometimes I have no lag and it snaps my neck back others times I feel like I have 103hp LOL

the oil is not the only culprit.the coolant effects the car more than the oil(at least in my case).get the fan mod !

Jordo! · 08-14-2012, 09:40 PM

Okay, here's stock (top) vs. tuned (bottom). I have a feeling this is close to the "tuner's map"

Looks not so different, but feels great. Go figure...

(Bigger pics in gallery)

Here's the hex code if anyone wants to try it out and play with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .

8064 8064 80AE 8181 8237 82D1 8410 861A 873F 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
8000 8011 80A5 81A4 8284 835F 84D5 86E2 87DB 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7FBC 7FFD 80B6 81DD 82DD 83BA 8559 878F 88FD 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7FB0 8018 80E3 8222 8336 8421 85D1 881E 8954 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7F8F 801E 80FC 8258 8376 8475 863C 8888 89BA 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7F4F 7FFB 80DC 8247 836B 8463 8634 8879 89C9 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7F27 7FDF 80B8 8217 8334 8429 85E9 8854 89D6 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7F2B 7FE6 80B2 81FC 8304 83E9 85AA 8838 89B8 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7EFC 7FC0 808D 81D5 82D8 83B7 858F 8836 89B5 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7ED4 7FA9 807D 81D1 82DA 83BE 85BD 8873 8A07 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7ED4 7FBD 809B 81F5 8307 8404 862D 88D2 8A52 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7ECA 7FC1 80A6 81FF 8316 8422 865D 88D3 8A3D 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7E9A 7F99 8082 81DE 82F7 8401 8625 887C 89EC 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7E64 7F6C 8058 81BB 82DB 83F4 8614 8870 89C2 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F
7D47 7E6D 7F6A 80E7 821D 834D 8565 87EA 893C 8A72 8B72 8C72 8D02 8D5D 8E2F 8E2F

wstar · 08-14-2012, 09:56 PM

Your stock map looks identical to my stock map. Your tuned map looks a lot like my original "Tuner" map from my tuner, probably both based on some generic advice from UpRev. I'll plug it into Plot.

asdfsammich · 08-14-2012, 10:09 PM

Cool stuff. Guessing this is what you can do with UPREV software, cable and laptop? Plus you have to know what you're doing of course.

Kinda OT but when you flash UPREV software to ECU, are you pretty much flashing a ROM?

Tapatalk & such etc

wstar · 08-14-2012, 10:10 PM

Just a quick plot on its own, I'm lazy:

VS the shape of the others in the first post (it's not as rough as my Tuner set, but still not smooth either):

Best way to tell is to use an OBD-II datalogger (I like the Android App "Torque") to do some realtime graphs of the throttle position feedback, then go do a few accel runs and look at the instantaneous history on the phone's screen, compare to your butt impressions. You'll notice the dead and/or too-sharp regions if you have any.

Jordo! · 08-15-2012, 10:21 PM

^^^ Very cool -- thanks!

What happened on downshifts with the ETC off? Did it stumble or act as though it might stall?

08-13-2012, 05:00 PM	#76 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	Wstar -- any changes or updates to your throttle map? Have you tweaked it further or come up with any new insights? Planning on trying it soon, and just wanted to know if there were any updates Also, wondering if others who have tried it but don't have similar breathing mods (e.g., no headers) have found the map to work well or not? Herky Jerky? Flat spots? __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it. Last edited by Jordo!; 08-13-2012 at 05:03 PM.

08-13-2012, 06:14 PM	#77 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Still running the same map here, I like it. I don't think it's the kind of thing that would change much with breathing mods, but I guess who knows. Gives me good throttle control in any case. Not as good as ETC Off, but w/ 7AT (or anyone who wants SRM and/or VDC to work) you can't do ETC off __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

08-13-2012, 11:08 PM	#79 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	If you set ETC Off in UpRev, the ECU doesn't get to manage/interfere with the throttle at all. It's still technically drive-by-wire of course, so the signal's going through the ECU. But whatever you do to the gas pedal is what it does for throttling the engine, and it feels exactly like a normal cabled throttle. It's perfect, except for the fact that the ECU can no longer intervene in any way. I know it kills SRM and at least the throttle part of VDC, and it probably kills the soft rev limiter as well (although you'd still get the hard fuel-cut one I think). If you're tracking a 6MT car and willing to never rely on SRM and do your own heel-toe, it's probably a good setting to use. I meant to someday experiment with whether it's even possible (or practical) to time your own throttle blips on the 7AT with ETC Off and get shifting to still work right, but I never got around to it (and frankly I'm dubious of whether there would even be a consistent timing window to aim for). __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

08-14-2012, 01:43 AM	#81 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Don't know about the torque management connection there w/ ETC Off, I never went back and played with it as I said. As for the throttle map, well, throttle map is going to be a personal thing to some degree. I'm not sure what your criteria is for "under responsive". The point of my map wasn't to make the throttle jerky or snappy and give you a good butt feeling, it was to make it smooth and predictable while also removing the low-RPM limitations in the stock map. I think I mentioned in a much earlier post that some people would probably think the car felt slower on my map. It's smoother is all. The more you can smooth the map, the greater degree of control you have over the throttle at all ranges to finess the amount of torque you're applying in a given corner or whatever. Some of my earlier maps and experiments resulted in what some would call snappy response, but it just made the car twitchy and then limited control in the rest of the range. For an exaggerated example: you could take the effective throttle range of the engine and put it all in the bottom 1/3 of the pedal. Very "responsive" initially, but then you're at full throttle with your foot 1/3 of the way down. The rest of the pedal travel is just pointless mashing, and it's 3 times harder to precisely control the throttle in the useful range. At least that would be predictable though. What's worse is a map that's just spiky. Alternating patterns of compressed and expanded ranges (graph goes up in chunks of uneven slope), leading to total unpredictability in practice. Nothing you do to the throttle table changes the engine's capabilities. You're just changing how the pedal maps to the engine's range. In theory you can mostly do the same by changing how you move your foot (with the exception of the initial problem of the low-RPM throttle limitations). If you want to send me (or just post here) the numbers from your last map, we can compare them and see how they plot differently. What was it from, a dyno shop? (and do you have your original as well?) __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

08-14-2012, 11:28 AM	#82 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 42	I'm fine if it gets rid of the annoying surge in 1st, but still allow me to open it up. I tend to get the car moving at low revs. It's a weird habit. I did try getting the car moving at higher revs and manage to burn the tires making a left turn with barely any throttle input. It was to get out of the flat spot with the A/C running. __________________

08-14-2012, 11:54 AM	#83 (permalink)
red6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 3,277 Drives: 2010 Z Coupe M6 SPT Rep Power: 21	These cars are so weird. Sometimes I have no lag and it snaps my neck back others times I feel like I have 103hp LOL __________________ 2010 Base+Sport 6spd: Stillen G3, FI Non-Resonated CBE, FI Non-Resonated Test Pipes, UpRev Tuned, Custom 24R Oil Cooler, JDM Rear Fog-OEM Harness. ???Whp ???WTQ (Will find out come spring time)

08-14-2012, 03:10 PM	#84 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	I'll post screenshots of both later tonight __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

08-14-2012, 09:56 PM	#87 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Your stock map looks identical to my stock map. Your tuned map looks a lot like my original "Tuner" map from my tuner, probably both based on some generic advice from UpRev. I'll plug it into Plot. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

08-14-2012, 10:09 PM	#88 (permalink)
asdfsammich Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 456 Drives: 09 370Z SR MT Rep Power: 14	Cool stuff. Guessing this is what you can do with UPREV software, cable and laptop? Plus you have to know what you're doing of course. Kinda OT but when you flash UPREV software to ECU, are you pretty much flashing a ROM? Tapatalk & such etc

08-14-2012, 10:10 PM	#89 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Just a quick plot on its own, I'm lazy: VS the shape of the others in the first post (it's not as rough as my Tuner set, but still not smooth either): Best way to tell is to use an OBD-II datalogger (I like the Android App "Torque") to do some realtime graphs of the throttle position feedback, then go do a few accel runs and look at the instantaneous history on the phone's screen, compare to your butt impressions. You'll notice the dead and/or too-sharp regions if you have any. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

08-15-2012, 10:21 PM	#90 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	^^^ Very cool -- thanks! What happened on downshifts with the ETC off? Did it stumble or act as though it might stall? __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

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