Smooth Throttle for UpRev

esfourteen · 05-07-2014, 09:09 PM

thanks Jordo, it turns out i had the stock throttle map set properly my ecu just sometimes ignores the map switch or something, im really not sure but it would behave like I wasn't on the stock throttle map at all. Now that its actually using the stock map so far the car seems OK. I'm going to have to play with this a bit when I get on the dyno...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

8064 8064 80AE 8181 8237 82D1 83F5 851A 863F 8724 880A 8871 88AA 88DA 8900 89AF
8000 8011 80A5 81A4 8284 835F 84BA 85E2 86DB 8833 8918 8960 89A8 89D1 89E6 8AA3
7FBC 7FFD 80B6 81DD 82DD 83BA 853E 868F 87FD 892C 8A00 8A49 8AA1 8AF7 8B11 8BD3
7FB0 8018 80E3 8222 8336 8421 85B6 871E 8854 8974 8A5B 8AB1 8B07 8B3A 8B62 8C23
7F8F 801E 80FC 8258 8376 8475 8621 8788 88BA 89E8 8AF3 8B4B 8BBB 8C12 8C5E 8D9B
7F4F 7FFB 80DC 8247 836B 8463 8619 8779 88C9 8A1C 8B1C 8B93 8C00 8C5B 8CA4 8DD6
7F27 7FDF 80B8 8217 8334 8429 85CE 8754 88D6 8A24 8B33 8B99 8BF3 8C51 8C9F 8D8A
7F2B 7FE6 80B2 81FC 8304 83E9 858F 8738 88B8 8A0B 8B2D 8B8B 8C1B 8C8B 8CBC 8DD1
7EFC 7FC0 808D 81D5 82D8 83B7 8574 8736 88B5 8A2C 8B3C 8BBC 8C1C 8CA8 8CEB 8DEC
7ED4 7FA9 807D 81D1 82DA 83BE 85A2 8773 8907 8A5D 8B5B 8BC7 8C5D 8CD6 8D1D 8E1D
7ED4 7FBD 809B 81F5 8307 8404 8612 87D2 8952 8A6F 8B64 8BB7 8C63 8CE3 8D3E 8E16
7ECA 7FC1 80A6 81FF 8316 8422 8642 87D3 893D 8A7C 8B93 8C1C 8CA2 8CFC 8D49 8E2F
7E9A 7F99 8082 81DE 82F7 8401 860A 877C 88EC 8A55 8B92 8C20 8C95 8CF9 8D47 8E16
7E64 7F6C 8058 81BB 82DB 83F4 85F9 8770 88C2 8A1B 8B6C 8BF0 8C61 8CB6 8D0E 8DC9
7D47 7E6D 7F6A 80E7 821D 834D 854A 86EA 883C 89A9 8B22 8B7F 8BCA 8C05 8C6D 8D2C

Hex code for stock map -- note, this is from 2011 7AT

esfourteen · 04-27-2014, 07:48 PM

I really need to get a hold of someone at uprev to help out with this, I'd really love to be able to drive with ETC on again. I updated uprev/rom, flashed wstar's map to map1 and stock to map2. map1 was useless as it was last time, no throttle anywhere. switched to map2 on the fly and did some tracing/logging, I see about 4.15v which was decent, felt like the throttle was almost fully open, cool. Start the car up to drive home and I'm back to the same issue I was a year ago, 2.4v when flooring it until 4k rpm, then BAM wide open throttle. I didn't touch the maps at all... days like today make me want to switch over to ecutek.

Awgd8 · 05-13-2014, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esfourteen

I really need to get a hold of someone at uprev to help out with this, I'd really love to be able to drive with ETC on again. I updated uprev/rom, flashed wstar's map to map1 and stock to map2. map1 was useless as it was last time, no throttle anywhere. switched to map2 on the fly and did some tracing/logging, I see about 4.15v which was decent, felt like the throttle was almost fully open, cool. Start the car up to drive home and I'm back to the same issue I was a year ago, 2.4v when flooring it until 4k rpm, then BAM wide open throttle. I didn't touch the maps at all... days like today make me want to switch over to ecutek.

When was the last time you clean your throttle bodies? Maybe it is gummed up? The more filmed build up around the butterfly plates, the more the sensor adjust your baseline throttle and screw up the sensor reading? Not really sure if cleaning it might help? Just be careful not to open the plates when cleaning it. Work around while while it is close. It can be cleaned this way since I had done it once and I could feel the smooth acceleration after resetting the ECU using the pedal sequence reset.

esfourteen · 05-14-2014, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awgd8

When was the last time you clean your throttle bodies? Maybe it is gummed up? The more filmed build up around the butterfly plates, the more the sensor adjust your baseline throttle and screw up the sensor reading? Not really sure if cleaning it might help? Just be careful not to open the plates when cleaning it. Work around while while it is close. It can be cleaned this way since I had done it once and I could feel the smooth acceleration after resetting the ECU using the pedal sequence reset.

My throttle bodies are squeaky clean, and completely unrelated to throttle on this car. For most driving scenarios the throttles are fully open and air intake is controlled using VVEL by adjusting lift, throttle % is just a simulated number.

1slow370 · 05-14-2014, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esfourteen

My throttle bodies are squeaky clean, and completely unrelated to throttle on this car. For most driving scenarios the throttles are fully open and air intake is controlled using VVEL by adjusting lift, throttle % is just a simulated number.

not quite entirely there is always some amount of throttle applied to create vacuum for the brake booster. this is why the car has two map sensors

Also could somebody with logging post up a graph of a 3,4, or 5 gear pull from 2k to 7500rpm on a warm engine logging tps, vvel, vvt with voltage on the vertical and rpm on the horizontal.

jrb55gh · 05-14-2014, 10:08 PM

Here is a data log from my Ecutek software of throttle pedal sensor and throttle opening sensor for several easy starts. It appears that the throttle roughly follows the throttle pedal and does not remain wide open. The pedal sensor voltage is in blue and the throttle opening sensor is in yellow. The second screenshot overlays the VVEL (magenta) and VVT (red). There is truly a lot going on with every movement of the throttle pedal.

jrb55gh · 05-07-2014, 08:21 PM

This post may not be anything special to the track guys, but there is something worth mentioning to the street guys with a 7AT. I just completed the current Dynotronics Ecutek remote tune on my 2013 7AT. The car is completely stock and street driven smoothly with restraint when the wife is along but with gusto when she’s not.

On the street in stop and go traffic the stock throttle response has an annoying delay that is actually dangerous in slow, tight situations that require quick acceleration. From what I read in this thread it appears that wstar has developed a throttle table (2300) in Uprev that cuts the delay but accelerates hard with very little throttle pedal input. This sort of throttle response is ok with the 6MT in street traffic because the clutch can be used to modulate the torque to the rear wheels. However, on 7AT cars with stock stall speeds, smooth starts in heavy traffic require extreme throttle foot control. Wstar also commented “the curves are backwards from where they should be for drivability”. Soft response without delay at small throttle pedal inputs makes street driving more relaxed and might be a benefit on the track. I think I have this now with the tune in my Z.

The first try for a suitable throttle response curve was a 1:1 coupling of the throttle pedal to the throttle. This resulted virtually in no delay but the engine almost jumps out of the car with a short ¼ throttle stab at the pedal. It was impressively quick reving in neutral but difficult to drive with an automatic on the street. After a few iterations of logging data and adjusting throttle response to throttle pedal inputs, the delay is nil and the action of the throttle is smooth and gradual at throttle pedal inputs up to about 10%, but responds like gang busters if you put your foot in it.

Jordo! · 05-07-2014, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrb55gh

This post may not be anything special to the track guys, but there is something worth mentioning to the street guys with a 7AT. I just completed the current Dynotronics Ecutek remote tune on my 2013 7AT. The car is completely stock and street driven smoothly with restraint when the wife is along but with gusto when she’s not.

On the street in stop and go traffic the stock throttle response has an annoying delay that is actually dangerous in slow, tight situations that require quick acceleration. From what I read in this thread it appears that wstar has developed a throttle table (2300) in Uprev that cuts the delay but accelerates hard with very little throttle pedal input. This sort of throttle response is ok with the 6MT in street traffic because the clutch can be used to modulate the torque to the rear wheels. However, on 7AT cars with stock stall speeds, smooth starts in heavy traffic require extreme throttle foot control. Wstar also commented “the curves are backwards from where they should be for drivability”. Soft response without delay at small throttle pedal inputs makes street driving more relaxed and might be a benefit on the track. I think I have this now with the tune in my Z.

The first try for a suitable throttle response curve was a 1:1 coupling of the throttle pedal to the throttle. This resulted virtually in no delay but the engine almost jumps out of the car with a short ¼ throttle stab at the pedal. It was impressively quick reving in neutral but difficult to drive with an automatic on the street. After a few iterations of logging data and adjusting throttle response to throttle pedal inputs, the delay is nil and the action of the throttle is smooth and gradual at throttle pedal inputs up to about 10%, but responds like gang busters if you put your foot in it.

Can you post the hexadecimal code for the map, both the first (1:1) vs he one you arrived at?

jrb55gh · 05-08-2014, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Can you post the hexadecimal code for the map, both the first (1:1) vs he one you arrived at?

Jordo,

I do not have access to the hex files in my Dynotronics tune for the throttle response. However, I can post the data logging graphs of the actual throttle, VVT, VVEL responses to throttle pedal input. Apparently these responses are accomplished by bypassing the Uprev throttle table and directly specifying each parameter in the Ecutek software.

The first plot is the throttle opening in degrees (green), VVEL (yellow), VVT (blue) vs. throttle pedal sensor voltage in a 2000 rpm roll on. Idle is about .7 volts and full throttle is about 4.66 volts.

The second plot is the standing start data with the VVT (blue) incorporated into the same graph.

The third plot is the throttle opening in degrees (green) and VVEL (yellow) vs. throttle pedal sensor voltage in a normal standing start.

V1H · 09-05-2014, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrb55gh

Jordo,

I do not have access to the hex files in my Dynotronics tune for the throttle response. However, I can post the data logging graphs of the actual throttle, VVT, VVEL responses to throttle pedal input. Apparently these responses are accomplished by bypassing the Uprev throttle table and directly specifying each parameter in the Ecutek software.

The first plot is the throttle opening in degrees (green), VVEL (yellow), VVT (blue) vs. throttle pedal sensor voltage in a 2000 rpm roll on. Idle is about .7 volts and full throttle is about 4.66 volts.

The second plot is the standing start data with the VVT (blue) incorporated into the same graph.

The third plot is the throttle opening in degrees (green) and VVEL (yellow) vs. throttle pedal sensor voltage in a normal standing start.

Very interesting and insightful datalog, m8!
If I interpret your data correctly, the VVT and VVL reach their final values at around 25% throttle plate position, which means that beyond this point the engine load is indeed controlled by further opening the throttle plate only, not valve lift.

Awgd8 · 09-06-2014, 09:48 AM

Pm

jrb55gh · 05-07-2014, 08:43 PM

"Can you post the hexadecimal code for the map, both the first (1:1) vs he one you arrived at?"

I am not sure that I can get that code. I do not have the tuner version of the software. I will ask Joe at Dynotronics if it is available to me.

Awgd8 · 05-13-2014, 10:24 AM

Good new info guys! So I have been using wstar throttle map for almost a year now. My only issue with Uprev is the inconsistency of how the tune stays there without the stock ECU inhibiting the Uprev full potential. One day car pulls harder from dead stop, another day it just flat out slow. This happened in any season of the year.

When my car was Etuned by Seymore, it was in the middle of hot summer, then found out about wstart throttle map at the start of fall and used it until now. With the change of season here in the midwest, it causes my original tuned A/F fuel ratio to get leaner (winter) , so I richen it a bit. Power was good, but still one day it lags one day it is peppy. Now comes spring season , and temp ranges from 40 to 70 F , so I logged some Cipher 0 to 60 run and still the car is a bit lean at 13.8:1 on WOT. The same MAP was dialed in at 12.8-12.9:1 on WOT summer time. So I asked Seymore recently to richen the car more. Now the car seems to pull harder just buy adding more fuel at 12:8 -12.9:1 and still using wstar throttle map. For a week now the tune is very consistent. It does not run flat in torque which start low 2K RPM and pulling harder at start top of 2k and above. Temp here is up and down from the range of 40 to 75 F . I wonder if the issue is UPREV not totally taking over the ECU parameters that Uprev already broke into?

As for Wstar throttle MAP, do you guys noticed if there is any throttle restriction from below 15MPH ? just curious? Right now throttle appears responsive at less than 1/4 pedal push.
I do not track the car (I have a 2008 EX35 crossover VQ35HR 5 Speed A/T ) , but I would like to have a touchy throttle pedal starts exactly at 2K RPM not 2.3K, but as wstar title of the thread goes, it says SMoooooth..... =) I guess I need to start a new thread title Uprev Touchy Pedal. =)

Jrb55gh, how do you like the ecutek etuned? I wonder if wstar throttle MAP can still be tuned better, due to dip in some RPM points per your observation?

Also, does anyone has an idea how to work on the Torque management table? I would like to see some hex data of your torque management table. So when the tranny slips on specific RPM or gears, i have to increase the number on that specific cell on the torque table? Pls. Clarify. Thanks!

Jordo! · 05-14-2014, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awgd8

Good new info guys! So I have been using wstar throttle map for almost a year now. My only issue with Uprev is the inconsistency of how the tune stays there without the stock ECU inhibiting the Uprev full potential. One day car pulls harder from dead stop, another day it just flat out slow. This happened in any season of the year.

When my car was Etuned by Seymore, it was in the middle of hot summer, then found out about wstart throttle map at the start of fall and used it until now. With the change of season here in the midwest, it causes my original tuned A/F fuel ratio to get leaner (winter) , so I richen it a bit. Power was good, but still one day it lags one day it is peppy. Now comes spring season , and temp ranges from 40 to 70 F , so I logged some Cipher 0 to 60 run and still the car is a bit lean at 13.8:1 on WOT. The same MAP was dialed in at 12.8-12.9:1 on WOT summer time. So I asked Seymore recently to richen the car more. Now the car seems to pull harder just buy adding more fuel at 12:8 -12.9:1 and still using wstar throttle map. For a week now the tune is very consistent. It does not run flat in torque which start low 2K RPM and pulling harder at start top of 2k and above. Temp here is up and down from the range of 40 to 75 F . I wonder if the issue is UPREV not totally taking over the ECU parameters that Uprev already broke into?

As for Wstar throttle MAP, do you guys noticed if there is any throttle restriction from below 15MPH ? just curious? Right now throttle appears responsive at less than 1/4 pedal push.
I do not track the car (I have a 2008 EX35 crossover VQ35HR 5 Speed A/T ) , but I would like to have a touchy throttle pedal starts exactly at 2K RPM not 2.3K, but as wstar title of the thread goes, it says SMoooooth..... =) I guess I need to start a new thread title Uprev Touchy Pedal. =)

Jrb55gh, how do you like the ecutek etuned? I wonder if wstar throttle MAP can still be tuned better, due to dip in some RPM points per your observation?

Also, does anyone has an idea how to work on the Torque management table? I would like to see some hex data of your torque management table. So when the tranny slips on specific RPM or gears, i have to increase the number on that specific cell on the torque table? Pls. Clarify. Thanks!

Hm. I am curious as to your gearing -- it's different that the 7AT's (as is the motor!), so that might factor into both responsiveness and any quirks that might crop up.

Awgd8 · 05-17-2014, 09:25 PM

Pm

04-27-2014, 07:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
esfourteen A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: LI, NY Posts: 1,375 Drives: 40th TT Rep Power: 19	I really need to get a hold of someone at uprev to help out with this, I'd really love to be able to drive with ETC on again. I updated uprev/rom, flashed wstar's map to map1 and stock to map2. map1 was useless as it was last time, no throttle anywhere. switched to map2 on the fly and did some tracing/logging, I see about 4.15v which was decent, felt like the throttle was almost fully open, cool. Start the car up to drive home and I'm back to the same issue I was a year ago, 2.4v when flooring it until 4k rpm, then BAM wide open throttle. I didn't touch the maps at all... days like today make me want to switch over to ecutek. __________________ Build Thread \| GTM TT Install Thread \| Engine Build Thread

09-06-2014, 09:48 AM	#11 (permalink)
Awgd8 Base Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: WI Posts: 165 Drives: 2015 Q40 / 2008 EX35 Rep Power: 12	Pm Last edited by Awgd8; 05-05-2015 at 06:03 PM.

05-07-2014, 08:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
jrb55gh Base Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: DFW Texas Posts: 149 Drives: '13 370z black 7AT Rep Power: 13	"Can you post the hexadecimal code for the map, both the first (1:1) vs he one you arrived at?" I am not sure that I can get that code. I do not have the tuner version of the software. I will ask Joe at Dynotronics if it is available to me. Jordo! likes this.

05-13-2014, 10:24 AM	#13 (permalink)
Awgd8 Base Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: WI Posts: 165 Drives: 2015 Q40 / 2008 EX35 Rep Power: 12	Good new info guys! So I have been using wstar throttle map for almost a year now. My only issue with Uprev is the inconsistency of how the tune stays there without the stock ECU inhibiting the Uprev full potential. One day car pulls harder from dead stop, another day it just flat out slow. This happened in any season of the year. When my car was Etuned by Seymore, it was in the middle of hot summer, then found out about wstart throttle map at the start of fall and used it until now. With the change of season here in the midwest, it causes my original tuned A/F fuel ratio to get leaner (winter) , so I richen it a bit. Power was good, but still one day it lags one day it is peppy. Now comes spring season , and temp ranges from 40 to 70 F , so I logged some Cipher 0 to 60 run and still the car is a bit lean at 13.8:1 on WOT. The same MAP was dialed in at 12.8-12.9:1 on WOT summer time. So I asked Seymore recently to richen the car more. Now the car seems to pull harder just buy adding more fuel at 12:8 -12.9:1 and still using wstar throttle map. For a week now the tune is very consistent. It does not run flat in torque which start low 2K RPM and pulling harder at start top of 2k and above. Temp here is up and down from the range of 40 to 75 F . I wonder if the issue is UPREV not totally taking over the ECU parameters that Uprev already broke into? As for Wstar throttle MAP, do you guys noticed if there is any throttle restriction from below 15MPH ? just curious? Right now throttle appears responsive at less than 1/4 pedal push. I do not track the car (I have a 2008 EX35 crossover VQ35HR 5 Speed A/T ) , but I would like to have a touchy throttle pedal starts exactly at 2K RPM not 2.3K, but as wstar title of the thread goes, it says SMoooooth..... =) I guess I need to start a new thread title Uprev Touchy Pedal. =) Jrb55gh, how do you like the ecutek etuned? I wonder if wstar throttle MAP can still be tuned better, due to dip in some RPM points per your observation? Also, does anyone has an idea how to work on the Torque management table? I would like to see some hex data of your torque management table. So when the tranny slips on specific RPM or gears, i have to increase the number on that specific cell on the torque table? Pls. Clarify. Thanks! Last edited by Awgd8; 05-13-2014 at 10:54 AM.

05-17-2014, 09:25 PM	#15 (permalink)
Awgd8 Base Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: WI Posts: 165 Drives: 2015 Q40 / 2008 EX35 Rep Power: 12	Pm Last edited by Awgd8; 05-05-2015 at 06:07 PM.

05-14-2014, 10:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
jrb55gh Base Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: DFW Texas Posts: 149 Drives: '13 370z black 7AT Rep Power: 13	Here is a data log from my Ecutek software of throttle pedal sensor and throttle opening sensor for several easy starts. It appears that the throttle roughly follows the throttle pedal and does not remain wide open. The pedal sensor voltage is in blue and the throttle opening sensor is in yellow. The second screenshot overlays the VVEL (magenta) and VVT (red). There is truly a lot going on with every movement of the throttle pedal.

05-07-2014, 08:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
jrb55gh Base Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: DFW Texas Posts: 149 Drives: '13 370z black 7AT Rep Power: 13	This post may not be anything special to the track guys, but there is something worth mentioning to the street guys with a 7AT. I just completed the current Dynotronics Ecutek remote tune on my 2013 7AT. The car is completely stock and street driven smoothly with restraint when the wife is along but with gusto when she’s not. On the street in stop and go traffic the stock throttle response has an annoying delay that is actually dangerous in slow, tight situations that require quick acceleration. From what I read in this thread it appears that wstar has developed a throttle table (2300) in Uprev that cuts the delay but accelerates hard with very little throttle pedal input. This sort of throttle response is ok with the 6MT in street traffic because the clutch can be used to modulate the torque to the rear wheels. However, on 7AT cars with stock stall speeds, smooth starts in heavy traffic require extreme throttle foot control. Wstar also commented “the curves are backwards from where they should be for drivability”. Soft response without delay at small throttle pedal inputs makes street driving more relaxed and might be a benefit on the track. I think I have this now with the tune in my Z. The first try for a suitable throttle response curve was a 1:1 coupling of the throttle pedal to the throttle. This resulted virtually in no delay but the engine almost jumps out of the car with a short ¼ throttle stab at the pedal. It was impressively quick reving in neutral but difficult to drive with an automatic on the street. After a few iterations of logging data and adjusting throttle response to throttle pedal inputs, the delay is nil and the action of the throttle is smooth and gradual at throttle pedal inputs up to about 10%, but responds like gang busters if you put your foot in it.

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