tuning the Intake valve timing control?

indyn · 04-19-2011, 12:50 PM

Found this in the service manual

"This mechanism hydraulically controls cam phases continuously with the fixed operating angle of the intake
valve.
The ECM receives signals such as crankshaft position, camshaft position, engine speed, and engine coolant
temperature. Then, the ECM sends ON/OFF pulse duty signals to the intake valve timing (IVT) control solenoid
valve depending on driving status. This makes it possible to control the shut/open timing of the intake
valve to increase engine torque in low/mid speed range and output in high-speed range."

Seems like an another way to extract power besides playing with a/f ratios and ignition timing.

And why is hard to tune the VVEL, as it is a form of cam but not fixed. Instead of releasing a new engine I would see Nissan doing this to produce more hp from the same engine for any upcoming vehicles. This is what I got from service manual

VVEL SEN LEARNB1
VVEL SEN LEARNB2 - unit in Volts • Indicates the VVEL learning value.

VVEL POSITION SEN-B1
VVEL POSITION SEN-B2 - unit in Volts • The VVEL control shaft position sensor signal voltage is displayed.

VVEL TIM-B1
VVEL TIM-B2 - deg • Indicates [deg] of VVEL control shaft angle.

VVEL LEARN - YET/DONE • Display the condition of VVEL learning YET: VVEL learning has not been performed yet. CMPLT: VVEL learning has already been performed
successfully.

I see all the VVEL parameters to do atleast a mild tuning. I don't think Cobb AP Race software could give access to the VVEL tables, I guess Uprev does.

indyn · 04-19-2011, 08:43 PM

29 views and no response !!!

Jordo! · 04-19-2011, 08:46 PM

The ECU code for the VVEL controller has not been previously cracked, so no tuning options as yet.

GTM is working on something, but my guess is that it will be a camcon-type controller that spoofs signals rather than a software controlled interface.

JB-370z · 04-19-2011, 08:54 PM

I can read the "learn" data off my HKS Camp2. Guess I have a better understanding, next time I view what the learn sensor is reading. On another note, APEXi made vtech controllers for Honda's; why can't uprev do the same. I think the cost of R&D vs ROI ratio might not be so rewarding. It would to be nice to see though.

indyn · 04-19-2011, 09:36 PM

JB-370z : can you log these "learn" data?
Cracking this VVEL code might take time but spoofing it might be the way to go if they want to better their ROI, good for GTM if they release something sooner.

Companies like Uprev prolly has all the data to get this started but I guess they want to make maps for the VVEL controller.

1slow370 · 04-22-2011, 04:47 AM

ok vtec contorollers are easy all it is is a fricken window switch, flip the switch and the vtec solenoid actuates. VVel is MUCH more complicated. A "spoof box" will not work the GTM controller will be better than that. the vvel is so interconnected with the engines operation that spoofing the signal = uncontrollable car. It throttles it does traction control, it's responsible for synchro revmatch, it does everything, a spoof box would have to be a 60amp dual channel dc motor driver with dual analog outputs for spoofed motor postion values that would need to be generated to fool the ecu so it thinks it has the correct position and not throw an ses light, while being able to control 2 high amp dc motors. If your going to that extent you really should just throw out the whole vvel electronics system and run standalone. Hell i myslef would love nothing more than to throw out the factory electronics, get some new gauges, an fconVpro(provided i could tune the damn thing), and a few other pieces and just be done with it and never have to deal with this nissan B/S again.

Edit: also once Uprev cracks the vvel logistics in the ecu and incorporates it into their GUI it will be done they shouldn't need any extra boxes, only reason it's taking so long is because it's very complicated and would take a lot of time, and when you look at how many licenses they sell for all the turbo and supercharger kits, as well as everyone else that has bought one they don't really have to care about us. I saw this coming back when cobb dropped out and i called them about vvel and they said that if i gave them my car and 60,000 dollars they would do it just to get rid of me. If i wasn't working with somebody else i would list all the parts a guy needs to tune vvel for cheap, just to spite them. In the end if I contribute to taking market away from them i'll be happy

Jordo! · 04-22-2011, 04:51 AM

So it will be software based and reflash the VVEL tables?

1slow370 · 04-22-2011, 05:40 AM

the uprev will be software, the gtm will probably be a full standalone system for at least the timing and lift with it's own software to adjust it and pretty much ignore the ecu, and factory wiring. the best thing about the gtm system will be that it will be at their full control so the possibility of reusing the sensors, and vvel sub assemblies will be there for doing head work instead of having to pay 600 every time you take one off or make an adjustment. Uprev will be stuck with the factory vvel adjustment procedure meaning engine work = big bucks every time do to "non-reusable" parts. The gtm controller should also work with making actual adjustments to the vvel connecting link adjusters, so a real "camming" effect can be had for real gains. GTM = more horespower and better response IMO.

Jordo! · 04-22-2011, 06:58 AM

Sounds very promising -- any idea when it will be available?

1slow370 · 04-22-2011, 10:50 AM

nope prolly within the year depending how many hiccups are hit maybe?

indyn · 04-23-2011, 12:07 PM

there must be substantial gains, GTM wouldn't be investing time and money otherwise.

is your car the guinea pig for this 1slow370?

1slow370 · 04-24-2011, 01:15 AM

nope just helpin out my guess is probablly gonna be a shop car first so no customer will have to worry about bent valves I have Sam send me some stuff when he's ready tho

indyn · 04-26-2011, 08:56 PM

Excellent, will wait on GTM.

04-19-2011, 12:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
indyn Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: farr north Posts: 241 Drives: 11 BMW 335i 6AT Rep Power: 14	tuning the Intake valve timing control? Found this in the service manual "This mechanism hydraulically controls cam phases continuously with the fixed operating angle of the intake valve. The ECM receives signals such as crankshaft position, camshaft position, engine speed, and engine coolant temperature. Then, the ECM sends ON/OFF pulse duty signals to the intake valve timing (IVT) control solenoid valve depending on driving status. This makes it possible to control the shut/open timing of the intake valve to increase engine torque in low/mid speed range and output in high-speed range." Seems like an another way to extract power besides playing with a/f ratios and ignition timing. And why is hard to tune the VVEL, as it is a form of cam but not fixed. Instead of releasing a new engine I would see Nissan doing this to produce more hp from the same engine for any upcoming vehicles. This is what I got from service manual VVEL SEN LEARNB1 VVEL SEN LEARNB2 - unit in Volts • Indicates the VVEL learning value. VVEL POSITION SEN-B1 VVEL POSITION SEN-B2 - unit in Volts • The VVEL control shaft position sensor signal voltage is displayed. VVEL TIM-B1 VVEL TIM-B2 - deg • Indicates [deg] of VVEL control shaft angle. VVEL LEARN - YET/DONE • Display the condition of VVEL learning YET: VVEL learning has not been performed yet. CMPLT: VVEL learning has already been performed successfully. I see all the VVEL parameters to do atleast a mild tuning. I don't think Cobb AP Race software could give access to the VVEL tables, I guess Uprev does.

04-19-2011, 08:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	The ECU code for the VVEL controller has not been previously cracked, so no tuning options as yet. GTM is working on something, but my guess is that it will be a camcon-type controller that spoofs signals rather than a software controlled interface. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

04-19-2011, 08:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
JB-370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 1,859 Drives: Stage 2 Twin Turbos Rep Power: 19	I can read the "learn" data off my HKS Camp2. Guess I have a better understanding, next time I view what the learn sensor is reading. On another note, APEXi made vtech controllers for Honda's; why can't uprev do the same. I think the cost of R&D vs ROI ratio might not be so rewarding. It would to be nice to see though. __________________ ll Baker Tuning ll GTM ll Powerhouse Amuse ll HKS ll Up-Rev ll iForged ll AP Racing ll Pioneer ll SPL ll Bride ll Top Secret ll OS Giken ll GTM Stage 2 Twin Turboed 370z (First in Texas, Thanks To Baker Tuning) Last edited by JB-370z; 04-19-2011 at 08:58 PM.

04-22-2011, 04:47 AM	#6 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	ok vtec contorollers are easy all it is is a fricken window switch, flip the switch and the vtec solenoid actuates. VVel is MUCH more complicated. A "spoof box" will not work the GTM controller will be better than that. the vvel is so interconnected with the engines operation that spoofing the signal = uncontrollable car. It throttles it does traction control, it's responsible for synchro revmatch, it does everything, a spoof box would have to be a 60amp dual channel dc motor driver with dual analog outputs for spoofed motor postion values that would need to be generated to fool the ecu so it thinks it has the correct position and not throw an ses light, while being able to control 2 high amp dc motors. If your going to that extent you really should just throw out the whole vvel electronics system and run standalone. Hell i myslef would love nothing more than to throw out the factory electronics, get some new gauges, an fconVpro(provided i could tune the damn thing), and a few other pieces and just be done with it and never have to deal with this nissan B/S again. Edit: also once Uprev cracks the vvel logistics in the ecu and incorporates it into their GUI it will be done they shouldn't need any extra boxes, only reason it's taking so long is because it's very complicated and would take a lot of time, and when you look at how many licenses they sell for all the turbo and supercharger kits, as well as everyone else that has bought one they don't really have to care about us. I saw this coming back when cobb dropped out and i called them about vvel and they said that if i gave them my car and 60,000 dollars they would do it just to get rid of me. If i wasn't working with somebody else i would list all the parts a guy needs to tune vvel for cheap, just to spite them. In the end if I contribute to taking market away from them i'll be happy __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 04-22-2011 at 04:54 AM.

04-22-2011, 04:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	So it will be software based and reflash the VVEL tables? __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

04-19-2011, 08:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
indyn Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: farr north Posts: 241 Drives: 11 BMW 335i 6AT Rep Power: 14	29 views and no response !!!

04-19-2011, 09:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
indyn Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: farr north Posts: 241 Drives: 11 BMW 335i 6AT Rep Power: 14	JB-370z : can you log these "learn" data? Cracking this VVEL code might take time but spoofing it might be the way to go if they want to better their ROI, good for GTM if they release something sooner. Companies like Uprev prolly has all the data to get this started but I guess they want to make maps for the VVEL controller.

04-22-2011, 05:40 AM	#8 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	the uprev will be software, the gtm will probably be a full standalone system for at least the timing and lift with it's own software to adjust it and pretty much ignore the ecu, and factory wiring. the best thing about the gtm system will be that it will be at their full control so the possibility of reusing the sensors, and vvel sub assemblies will be there for doing head work instead of having to pay 600 every time you take one off or make an adjustment. Uprev will be stuck with the factory vvel adjustment procedure meaning engine work = big bucks every time do to "non-reusable" parts. The gtm controller should also work with making actual adjustments to the vvel connecting link adjusters, so a real "camming" effect can be had for real gains. GTM = more horespower and better response IMO. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

04-22-2011, 06:58 AM	#9 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	Sounds very promising -- any idea when it will be available? __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

04-22-2011, 10:50 AM	#10 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	nope prolly within the year depending how many hiccups are hit maybe? __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

04-23-2011, 12:07 PM	#11 (permalink)
indyn Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: farr north Posts: 241 Drives: 11 BMW 335i 6AT Rep Power: 14	there must be substantial gains, GTM wouldn't be investing time and money otherwise. is your car the guinea pig for this 1slow370?

04-24-2011, 01:15 AM	#12 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	nope just helpin out my guess is probablly gonna be a shop car first so no customer will have to worry about bent valves I have Sam send me some stuff when he's ready tho __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

04-26-2011, 08:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
indyn Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: farr north Posts: 241 Drives: 11 BMW 335i 6AT Rep Power: 14	Excellent, will wait on GTM.

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