Tuning N/A 110 octane

jnaut · 03-14-2011, 10:16 AM

Has anybody have or heard of getting there 370z tuned on 110 octane on a n/a motor? Just an idea...hummm?? I will try this just out of curiosity. Yes this is a leaded fuel so there is a possibility of damage to the o2 sensors but i have no cats so no problem there. I even might mess with some oxygenated fuels also... results in the near future.

GZ3 · 03-14-2011, 10:25 AM

YouTube - XXX Race Gas gains 14whp on stock 370z

i saw this on youtube, dont really know if it helps but this is what came to mind..there are more detail on thier website about it too

jnaut · 03-14-2011, 11:08 AM

GZ3 good find!! thanks

red6spd · 03-14-2011, 11:14 AM

Can you just run that stock, or do you have to have a tune for it??? Also I know its off topic, but whats with the low baseline 72hp loss DAMMMM

jnaut · 03-14-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red6spd

Can you just run that stock, or do you have to have a tune for it??? Also I know its off topic, but whats with the low baseline 72hp loss DAMMMM

all dynos are different, dont look at the numbers just the difference.

wayneosan · 03-14-2011, 08:36 PM

I'd rather put in a good pump and injectors and run E85 and use a map switching function to switch from E85 to 93. NA could probably just get away with a drop in Walbro.

Hmm. 3 bucks a gallon, vs. what, 12 bucks a gallon? More than likely make more power too.

1slow370 · 03-16-2011, 04:35 AM

less power ethanol is 10% less volitale than gasoline. you could push the timing but you'd never get all the power or milage back. FI it has merits just because of cheap high octane. You still make less power per unit of fuel but with a turbo you just shove in more air and more fuel and the higher octane makes up for it. i plan to stick with the readilly available stuff so i'm mixing 5% toluene in premium. and thinking of adding in some MMT and ferosene.

CZero · 03-17-2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

less power ethanol is 10% less volitale than gasoline. you could push the timing but you'd never get all the power or milage back. FI it has merits just because of cheap high octane. You still make less power per unit of fuel but with a turbo you just shove in more air and more fuel and the higher octane makes up for it. i plan to stick with the readilly available stuff so i'm mixing 5% toluene in premium. and thinking of adding in some MMT and ferosene.

Use xylene if you're going to do that. Toluene is 114 octane while Xylene is 117 octane and they cost nearly the same. If you do mix that in it's a good idea to put in around 3 oz of Marvel Mystery Oil with your toluene/xylene.

I've run a high amount of xylene in both my 06 gti with a apr s3 turbo kit on 100 octane mode and my '86 944 turbo with a t04e 50 trim at 23 psi. It really does work wonders when mixed properly.

They used xylene in F1 back in the day when they could use turbos. They actually ran 86% or so xylene and the rest filler to meet the octane requirements back then.

As far as E85 goes, you could indeed use it to great advantage in a NA car. However, you would need to raise the compression ratio quite high for it to be worth it. I think I've seen 13.5-14:1 C/R with E85 all motor. Otherwise the timing advance, like previously mentioned, just won't be enough. Too advanced of timing doesn't do anyone any good no matter what fuel you're running.

jnaut · 03-18-2011, 10:19 AM

I have also be messing with naphthalene. It droppes the fuel temp around 25-35 degress plus quite volatile, but is seems to have residue.

All this fuel has really got me thinking as i was racing nat the sport compact nationals this past weekend, and i needed fuel. All they had was 110 leaded, yes i know leaded fuel can wipeout my o2's. So I threw in a couple gallons to mix with my 93. At 2:30 in the afternoon I did a pass @ 12.30 @112. I typically run a 111 mph @ night time when its cool. So the only variable is the fuel and calculated it at around 3% hp increase without proper tuning. For every 10 degrees ambient temp change its about 1 % hp loss or gain.

Jordo! · 03-18-2011, 11:42 PM

If you're feeling really adventurous you could mix in some nitromethane...

I guess the big question is how much extra advance could you coax out of the motor with 110? Worth a try, I suppose

1slow370 · 03-26-2011, 11:17 PM

not worth a try without larger injectors or at the bare minimum uprev. you'll be running lean instantly.

Jordo! · 03-26-2011, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

not worth a try without larger injectors or at the bare minimum uprev. you'll be running lean instantly.

What -- just with high octane? Anything with a high O2 content, sure, but just high octane shouldn't do that.

I just don't think there's more than another 1-2 degrees to get out of the timing -- I think it's pretty close to optimal as is. Maybe if valve timing could also be adjusted.

wayneosan · 03-28-2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

What -- just with high octane? Anything with a high O2 content, sure, but just high octane shouldn't do that.

I think he was talking about nitromethane. That's funny stuff. Do that on this engine and this is what will happen..

Every fuel has it's place.

Regarding additives; has anyone pulled the plugs to ensure they aren't leaving deposits? You know, I just had a Mustang the other day, ALL 4 o2's were smoked because the previous tuner told them that additives are ok. I am all about more hp, but I've seen time and time again o2's smoked when running an additive. I never really kept up with which ones are harmful, I know there are some with a hint of... I believe manganese (?) and I want to say, the Torco blended additive ruins o2 sensors also (I know there's more) I would say, if you want, and I hate to say it, use pure methanol and a methanol injection kit. (racing methanol, not denatured alcohol like I used to run) M-1,5 or whatever. Keep it on a switch and have UPrev map switching function for a separate map. There all the time for when someone is talking trash...

Unlike a TURBO car, if your kit cuts out you just loose a bit of power assuming you aren't running insane timing. I'll never use meth injection on a turbo car again. Too risky.

What do you guys think? I'd love to see someone try this for a back to back comparison.

1slow370 · 03-29-2011, 05:33 AM

toluene is factory component of pump gas, it's safe, yes nitromethane brings it's own oxygen to the party so you have to run huge amounts of it to stay rich, i wouldn't recomend using straight methanol as the main fuel as it corroids all aluminum engines but it should be fine for turbo injection systems(which really should be used on cars with a tuning solution that can tell when it's out of meth/water and pull timing for you like an fcon)

jnaut · 03-28-2011, 09:26 PM

going to the dyno thursday, with a few different fuels.

03-14-2011, 10:16 AM	#1 (permalink)
jnaut A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: wpb, fl Posts: 1,146 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 18	Tuning N/A 110 octane Has anybody have or heard of getting there 370z tuned on 110 octane on a n/a motor? Just an idea...hummm?? I will try this just out of curiosity. Yes this is a leaded fuel so there is a possibility of damage to the o2 sensors but i have no cats so no problem there. I even might mess with some oxygenated fuels also... results in the near future. __________________ Best 1/4 mile 12.24 Best mph 114.5_______

03-14-2011, 10:25 AM	#2 (permalink)
GZ3 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: SATX Posts: 3,296 Drives: Z Rep Power: 22	YouTube - XXX Race Gas gains 14whp on stock 370z i saw this on youtube, dont really know if it helps but this is what came to mind..there are more detail on thier website about it too __________________ 09 GT-R 12' 370Z 7AT HANDED DOWN 12'+13' 5.0 SOLD

03-14-2011, 11:08 AM	#3 (permalink)
jnaut A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: wpb, fl Posts: 1,146 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 18	GZ3 good find!! thanks __________________ Best 1/4 mile 12.24 Best mph 114.5_______

03-14-2011, 11:14 AM	#4 (permalink)
red6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 3,277 Drives: 2010 Z Coupe M6 SPT Rep Power: 21	Can you just run that stock, or do you have to have a tune for it??? Also I know its off topic, but whats with the low baseline 72hp loss DAMMMM __________________ 2010 Base+Sport 6spd: Stillen G3, FI Non-Resonated CBE, FI Non-Resonated Test Pipes, UpRev Tuned, Custom 24R Oil Cooler, JDM Rear Fog-OEM Harness. ???Whp ???WTQ (Will find out come spring time)

03-16-2011, 04:35 AM	#7 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	less power ethanol is 10% less volitale than gasoline. you could push the timing but you'd never get all the power or milage back. FI it has merits just because of cheap high octane. You still make less power per unit of fuel but with a turbo you just shove in more air and more fuel and the higher octane makes up for it. i plan to stick with the readilly available stuff so i'm mixing 5% toluene in premium. and thinking of adding in some MMT and ferosene. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

03-14-2011, 08:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
wayneosan Base Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Rowlett, Texas Posts: 17 Drives: A dyno @ T1 Rep Power: 15	I'd rather put in a good pump and injectors and run E85 and use a map switching function to switch from E85 to 93. NA could probably just get away with a drop in Walbro. Hmm. 3 bucks a gallon, vs. what, 12 bucks a gallon? More than likely make more power too.

03-18-2011, 10:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
jnaut A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: wpb, fl Posts: 1,146 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 18	I have also be messing with naphthalene. It droppes the fuel temp around 25-35 degress plus quite volatile, but is seems to have residue. All this fuel has really got me thinking as i was racing nat the sport compact nationals this past weekend, and i needed fuel. All they had was 110 leaded, yes i know leaded fuel can wipeout my o2's. So I threw in a couple gallons to mix with my 93. At 2:30 in the afternoon I did a pass @ 12.30 @112. I typically run a 111 mph @ night time when its cool. So the only variable is the fuel and calculated it at around 3% hp increase without proper tuning. For every 10 degrees ambient temp change its about 1 % hp loss or gain. __________________ Best 1/4 mile 12.24 Best mph 114.5_______

03-18-2011, 11:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	If you're feeling really adventurous you could mix in some nitromethane... I guess the big question is how much extra advance could you coax out of the motor with 110? Worth a try, I suppose __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

03-26-2011, 11:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	not worth a try without larger injectors or at the bare minimum uprev. you'll be running lean instantly. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

03-29-2011, 05:33 AM	#14 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	toluene is factory component of pump gas, it's safe, yes nitromethane brings it's own oxygen to the party so you have to run huge amounts of it to stay rich, i wouldn't recomend using straight methanol as the main fuel as it corroids all aluminum engines but it should be fine for turbo injection systems(which really should be used on cars with a tuning solution that can tell when it's out of meth/water and pull timing for you like an fcon) __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

03-28-2011, 09:26 PM	#15 (permalink)
jnaut A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: wpb, fl Posts: 1,146 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 18	going to the dyno thursday, with a few different fuels. __________________ Best 1/4 mile 12.24 Best mph 114.5_______

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