Got my car tuned with UpRev

semtex · 04-26-2010, 06:26 PM

You can input timing adjustments, but they don't go anywhere. The ECU just overrides the inputs with its own timing parameters. AFR is the only thing that takes. My understanding from Sharif (who has spoken about this directly with Uprev) is that our ECUs automatically add as much timing as is safely possible straight from the factory, so there's little to be gained via timing adjustments anyway. Not sure if I believe it 100%. But what do I know? I'm no expert when it comes to ECU tuning.

Edit: A clarification re. timing. What I've been told is that there's a max threshold to the timing. Try to dial in timing past that threshold and the ECU will just ignore your inputs. However, if your ECU is for whatever reason running timing well below that threshold and you use Uprev to advance it up to the threshold, those inputs will take. They will take because they're still within the factory max threshold. That's why we've seen such inconsistency with some folks (like me and RCZ) getting hardly any gain (I only got +6whp and RCZ got even less if I remember correctly), while others make a lot more. The results vary depending on each vehicle's starting point in terms of where the timing is.

semtex · 04-26-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esfourteen

thats incorrect, on the 370z uprev can change: rev limit, speed limit, afr, and ignition timing

Speed limit was not adjustable when I had my tune done. Don't know if maybe they've updated their software since then though.

G37Sam · 04-26-2010, 06:51 PM

ECU will only over-ride ignition parameters input if it detects unsafe conditions aka knock, my car was tuned with 93 octane fuel.

GTM has been tuning boosted G37s for a while now, you're telling me they're all running on stock ignition timing?

Zsteve · 04-26-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

You can input timing adjustments, but they don't go anywhere. The ECU just overrides the inputs with its own timing parameters. AFR is the only thing that takes. My understanding from Sharif (who has spoken about this directly with Uprev) is that our ECUs automatically add as much timing as is safely possible straight from the factory, so there's little to be gained via timing adjustments anyway. Not sure if I believe it 100%. But what do I know? I'm no expert when it comes to ECU tuning.

So if we were to do water/meth mod the ECU would do the timing for us and we wouldnt have to mess with it? And if the mix ran out the timing would go back to normal? If so that might be a good mod without having to adjust timing yourself.

semtex · 04-26-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G37Sam

ECU will only over-ride ignition parameters input if it detects unsafe conditions aka knock, my car was tuned with 93 octane fuel.

GTM has been tuning boosted G37s for a while now, you're telling me they're all running on stock ignition timing?

See my clarification above. I'm just relaying what I've been told, man. I was also tuned on 93. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what I believe. One one hand I'm skeptical. But then I see a bunch of other guys getting the exact same results and information from their tuners (like RCZ). *shrug*

G37Sam · 04-26-2010, 07:14 PM

I'm not accusing you of anything man

just thinking out loud

For the ECU to re-correct back to stock timing parameters, shouldn't it has to have some sort "backup" tables to remember those values?

Zsteve · 04-26-2010, 07:16 PM

I was thinking more on the intake being cooler now due to the meth and the timing adjusting for that. I know the water/meth has something to do with the octane ratings but it also cools the intake. Ive heard of turbo guys doing water/meth without adjusting timing just to cool the intake temps so the air wont be so heat soaked. Im just wondering if it will work that way for the NA too if the ECU adjusts timing for the cooler intake temps. And when I say inytake temps I mean at the injection point I guess.

Zsteve · 04-26-2010, 07:17 PM

I wish Cobb would come out and tell us what they have come up with so far as far all this goes.

Z eliminator · 04-26-2010, 07:19 PM

I got 320.1 rwhp on a dyno jet and my car is a 7 AT. I have the same mods as semtex except that i have stillen headers,
Im running the Cob tune #s that i got from Denny. Primary fuel and i did advance the timing 2 degress on the cobb but it did nothing. I also change my throtle postion settings.
Acording to the Cobb A/F readings im running lean at diferent rpm bands, but between 6800 and 8000 i picked up at leaset 12 RWHP. the A/f is around 13.6 to 13,8.
Now im not to sure how acurate the cobb is at reading a/f . i also run on Sunoco 94.
i also had my dealer bump the timing By 2 degress with the consult 3.
The difference in the car was night and day. Not sure what changed in the ecu but it made a very big difference.

Zsteve · 04-26-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z eliminator

I got 320.1 rwhp on a dyno jet and my car is a 7 AT. I have the same mods as semtex except that i have stillen headers,
Im running the Cob tune #s that i got from Denny. Primary fuel and i did advance the timing 2 degress on the cobb but it did nothing. I also change my throtle postion settings.
Acording to the Cobb A/F readings im running lean at diferent rpm bands, but between 6800 and 8000 i picked up at leaset 12 RWHP. the A/f is around 13.6 to 13,8.
Now im not to sure how acurate the cobb is at reading a/f . i also run on Sunoco 94.
i also had my dealer bump the timing By 2 degress with the consult 3.
The difference in the car was night and day. Not sure what changed in the ecu but it made a very big difference.

So you were able to get the timing bump from the dealer and have it stick but not the cobb? And the timing bump made a good bit of diff? I have the AAM tune for my mods and my AFR is 14.7 at idle and in the 12s at WOT. So I wonder why yours are a little off?

Your dealer was fine with doing the timing?

Zeliminator you have the final gear change right? If so who did you order thru?

LateralG'z · 04-26-2010, 07:34 PM

We are dynoing my car on thursday and tuning it with uprev, I will not be to aggressive but I think a time degree or two etc.. Try to keep the AF at 12.7-12.9. who knows what i will happen with the car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmlenz

Nice! In for results and dynos!

Z eliminator · 04-27-2010, 08:32 AM

I bought a whole diff. from a nissan mechanic from a g 35 / he did all the work and changed out the gears, he told me that the parts cost around 800 to 850 dollars.
I can not wait to see what the 4.08 will do with my GTM SC.
I got the A/F from the Cobb. I was told by Denny that they are not acurate depending on what A/F #'s that you are getting , They could read too high on the top end and at the bottom end the reading may be ead to high. "this is what i have read on the forum. If any body has compared the cobb readings with actual A/F readings from a tail pipe or external wide band i would be very interested to see how they compare."
My car does not ping but man does it go. I have added more fuel to the curve now, i dropped the #'s eg. from 87 to 86. ect. 77 to 76 I did this for the entire fuel curve. I have not dynoed the car with these changes Not sure how much of a change it will make.

LateralG'z · 04-27-2010, 04:18 PM

i will try to post my results thursday night after or friday night after work. i would be shocked to get these type of gains on thursday.

jmlenz · 04-29-2010, 08:40 PM

Incase anyone is interested this is an email response I received from Sebastian @Specialty Z (authorized Uprev tuner in CA). FYI they charge $500 for license, tuning and dyno time.

"Yes, there are some conflicting thoughts. AFR will change and that's about it. I tuned a G37 that didn't react to the speed limiter
Uprev couldn't help me out or my customer on that one. Timing is tricky. We have access to the IGN maps but they don't seem to take. I changed the timing quite a bit to see if I could get some result and I could only get it too lose power

So as of right now we can do AFR, timing is up in the air (looks like a negative), VVEL is no go yet, rev limiter, and on a couple G37s the speed limiter wouldn't take. The 370s seemed to be fine. Tuning the AFR can make some decent, low, or no gains like you mentioned. On a G I did it gained a good amount of power considering. On a couple 370s we were able to get around 5-7 HP. The main goal would to at least make the AFR safe when modifying the car. Making it safer would be the goal. Power would be a icing on the cake. As you can tell, the bugs are still being worked out with the tuning software.

take care!"

G37Sam · 04-29-2010, 08:55 PM

That's weird, my rev limiter was bumped up to 8k and the rpm cutoff was also narrowed down

04-26-2010, 06:26 PM	#76 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	You can input timing adjustments, but they don't go anywhere. The ECU just overrides the inputs with its own timing parameters. AFR is the only thing that takes. My understanding from Sharif (who has spoken about this directly with Uprev) is that our ECUs automatically add as much timing as is safely possible straight from the factory, so there's little to be gained via timing adjustments anyway. Not sure if I believe it 100%. But what do I know? I'm no expert when it comes to ECU tuning. Edit: A clarification re. timing. What I've been told is that there's a max threshold to the timing. Try to dial in timing past that threshold and the ECU will just ignore your inputs. However, if your ECU is for whatever reason running timing well below that threshold and you use Uprev to advance it up to the threshold, those inputs will take. They will take because they're still within the factory max threshold. That's why we've seen such inconsistency with some folks (like me and RCZ) getting hardly any gain (I only got +6whp and RCZ got even less if I remember correctly), while others make a lot more. The results vary depending on each vehicle's starting point in terms of where the timing is. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf. Last edited by semtex; 04-26-2010 at 06:54 PM.

04-26-2010, 06:51 PM	#78 (permalink)
G37Sam A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 1,507 Drives: RB'd G37 Rep Power: 20	ECU will only over-ride ignition parameters input if it detects unsafe conditions aka knock, my car was tuned with 93 octane fuel. GTM has been tuning boosted G37s for a while now, you're telling me they're all running on stock ignition timing? __________________ '14 Viper GTS '08 RB'd G37S - Sold

04-26-2010, 07:14 PM	#81 (permalink)
G37Sam A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 1,507 Drives: RB'd G37 Rep Power: 20	I'm not accusing you of anything man just thinking out loud For the ECU to re-correct back to stock timing parameters, shouldn't it has to have some sort "backup" tables to remember those values? __________________ '14 Viper GTS '08 RB'd G37S - Sold

04-26-2010, 07:16 PM	#82 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 22	I was thinking more on the intake being cooler now due to the meth and the timing adjusting for that. I know the water/meth has something to do with the octane ratings but it also cools the intake. Ive heard of turbo guys doing water/meth without adjusting timing just to cool the intake temps so the air wont be so heat soaked. Im just wondering if it will work that way for the NA too if the ECU adjusts timing for the cooler intake temps. And when I say inytake temps I mean at the injection point I guess. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

04-26-2010, 07:17 PM	#83 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 22	I wish Cobb would come out and tell us what they have come up with so far as far all this goes. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

04-26-2010, 07:19 PM	#84 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 19	I got 320.1 rwhp on a dyno jet and my car is a 7 AT. I have the same mods as semtex except that i have stillen headers, Im running the Cob tune #s that i got from Denny. Primary fuel and i did advance the timing 2 degress on the cobb but it did nothing. I also change my throtle postion settings. Acording to the Cobb A/F readings im running lean at diferent rpm bands, but between 6800 and 8000 i picked up at leaset 12 RWHP. the A/f is around 13.6 to 13,8. Now im not to sure how acurate the cobb is at reading a/f . i also run on Sunoco 94. i also had my dealer bump the timing By 2 degress with the consult 3. The difference in the car was night and day. Not sure what changed in the ecu but it made a very big difference. __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.

04-27-2010, 08:32 AM	#87 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 19	I bought a whole diff. from a nissan mechanic from a g 35 / he did all the work and changed out the gears, he told me that the parts cost around 800 to 850 dollars. I can not wait to see what the 4.08 will do with my GTM SC. I got the A/F from the Cobb. I was told by Denny that they are not acurate depending on what A/F #'s that you are getting , They could read too high on the top end and at the bottom end the reading may be ead to high. "this is what i have read on the forum. If any body has compared the cobb readings with actual A/F readings from a tail pipe or external wide band i would be very interested to see how they compare." My car does not ping but man does it go. I have added more fuel to the curve now, i dropped the #'s eg. from 87 to 86. ect. 77 to 76 I did this for the entire fuel curve. I have not dynoed the car with these changes Not sure how much of a change it will make. __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015. Last edited by Z eliminator; 04-27-2010 at 08:40 AM.

04-27-2010, 04:18 PM	#88 (permalink)
LateralG'z Track Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 876 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 17	i will try to post my results thursday night after or friday night after work. i would be shocked to get these type of gains on thursday. __________________ 2010 Mag Black, 6MT,

04-29-2010, 08:40 PM	#89 (permalink)
jmlenz Track Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Diego Posts: 645 Drives: a car Rep Power: 643	Incase anyone is interested this is an email response I received from Sebastian @Specialty Z (authorized Uprev tuner in CA). FYI they charge $500 for license, tuning and dyno time. "Yes, there are some conflicting thoughts. AFR will change and that's about it. I tuned a G37 that didn't react to the speed limiter Uprev couldn't help me out or my customer on that one. Timing is tricky. We have access to the IGN maps but they don't seem to take. I changed the timing quite a bit to see if I could get some result and I could only get it too lose power So as of right now we can do AFR, timing is up in the air (looks like a negative), VVEL is no go yet, rev limiter, and on a couple G37s the speed limiter wouldn't take. The 370s seemed to be fine. Tuning the AFR can make some decent, low, or no gains like you mentioned. On a G I did it gained a good amount of power considering. On a couple 370s we were able to get around 5-7 HP. The main goal would to at least make the AFR safe when modifying the car. Making it safer would be the goal. Power would be a icing on the cake. As you can tell, the bugs are still being worked out with the tuning software. take care!"

04-29-2010, 08:55 PM	#90 (permalink)
G37Sam A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 1,507 Drives: RB'd G37 Rep Power: 20	That's weird, my rev limiter was bumped up to 8k and the rpm cutoff was also narrowed down __________________ '14 Viper GTS '08 RB'd G37S - Sold

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