tuning gains
 

They're have been mixed reviews with tunes from uprev. RCZ didn't gain anything from a tune, semtex gained minimal while others gained 15 or more at the wheels with mods similar to each other and not. Technosquare reflash seemed to add power with its simple off the shelf reflash so what's the deal here? Logically one should do all the boltons and then do the reflash to get the most out of every part but it seems like there's nothing left to gain out of the car at least with some with the uprev tune after boltons. Can someone chime in here.

Every car behaves different and responds differently to mods that's to start. Also, not all tuners are the same, some can do magic lol

Every motor is different. I agree with all who say the stock tune is pretty stout itself. I know Uprev needs more development time with the platform, and have yet to do much with VVEL due to how much a replacement valvetrain costs.

I didn't get any added HP from a tune either, and my car just had intakes only at the time.

I can't divulge details here guys, but there are more gains to be had via Uprev for both myself and RCZ (and anyone else who has had their Z Uprev tuned already). Our dyno tunes aren't "complete" yet. Notice the end of my sig. ;)

Spill the beans. I just got my Z and come from the world of STi's where there are huge gains to be had from tunes. Now I know turbo cars are a whole other animal but I've been disappointed to say the least in what I've read so far from the tuning threads on here.

I'm not expecting huge gains from a NA car but at least want it to be worthwhile. Don't crush my dreams :(

Nate

It'll be worthwhile once the software is fully developed. That's all I can really say.

puckshaw - dont worry dude, cam map tuning can make a whole different car, nice to see a fellow Subaru convert

Fair enough. At least there's hope :)

Ah so you came from the Suby world also? I'm already missing the Suby wave. I waved at 3 350/370's the past couple days and all I got back was confused looks :(

car appeals to a larger, non enthusiast, crowd..it'll happen. Maybe this will make you feel better :hello: !

I think you mentioned this before... do the bolt-ons first. You'll be impressed with those gains (intake/exhaust). Then if you're still wanting to do an ECU tune via software, then try it. But this stuff is still being developed. I say, give it a few months (maybe up to a year). By then, the bugs will have been worked out.

After hearing about the "hard cold start" issue, I'm officially on the fence with an ECU tune. (At least until the "bugs" have been addressed.)

:iagree:

FYI, the cold start issue has been fixed. But there are some other things that need to be addressed. Not bugs per se. More like limitations. ;)

I did not know that the cold start issues was fixed, sorry. I'll wait and see as well until the software tune has progressed to the point that I feel comfortable doing it.

guys its simple. The only thing uprev and cobb can tune right now is fuel trims. If you have mods, you will already be running lean and you wont have much room for improvement. If you dont have mods, you will be running rich, therefore you can tune the car to run leaner and make power that way.

Let me rephrase.

If you are stock, tune will make good power. Probably as much as 15+ whp.

If you have full boltons, tune will make no power. 5whp or less.


This issue is not going to take a year to resolve, they just need to find a few signals that are going into the ECU and create a map for those too...like they do for everything else you "tune" with the software. I haven't spoken to anyone at uprev in a week or so, last thing I knew is that they weren't even sure what they were looking for, but we gave them a suggestion as to where we think (know) the problem originates. Its up to them to do the rest. If it is what we think it is and they find it quickly and develop a solution quickly (quickly being in the next month or two, not tomorrow) then we'll be able to make a bit more power out of the tunes...

RCZ - Good breakdown
I suspect over the next 12 months all the tuning companies will develop more definitions and 'enable' more tables for our tuning pleasure.
Over time the roms being released for mods and stock equipped vehicles will get better,smoother,faster and more powerful.

oh yeh puckshaw - have not seen any Z's to test the scooby wave as yet ;-)

Well that makes more sense as to why the gains were so modest. Glad to hear there's more potential once the tuning is...well...fine tuned. :p


lol :hello:

Now thats how I like things broken down, simple and to the point. That actaully explains things alot better than the long paragraphs.

^ well, Im glad I could help, but If I said those things and didnt explain why, then you would've thought my response was some sort of baseless guess.

I think you are mistaking the term rom with map kastley...they don't release roms, they release maps. Off the shelf maps are a bit of a waste of time/money if you ask me...

Also, a big suby wave from a two time STI owner :)

Termanology only, rom,map.hex.ptm ,reflash, ROM image
I understand that Roms have specific coding to match the ECU date,type, vehicle type, transmission , blah blah, and maps are variations of that original Rom image but its just a term, Im not being specific, I call em Roms, maps, crap flashes, rocket flashes, you get the picture.

e.g your comment on fuel trims a little up the post, its closed loop fuel targets, trims are automatic % of fuel pulled or added by the ECU to reach that target, no biggie, just termanology and I knew what you ment.

Agreed on the off the shelf jobs, but these can be good starting points for improvement

Two time STi owner also -- lol what made you change? me, I just needed a change and some rear wheel drive, not much snow in TX

When you say car running rich OEM, how rich are we talking here?

I've seen stock Gs dyno'd and their AF ranged in the high 12s @ WOT.. I don't think that's rich at all. Adding all the bolt ons ie increasing air flow => leaning out, is when you start hitting 14s AF and thats when you need the tune in order to bring the AF to the VQs optimum 12s

As other people have pointed out on this thread, every car responds differently to the same mods. That's just a simple fact...

But, what it really comes down to is the skill of the tuner. We've seen the Cobb Access Port do absolute wonders with 370Z's we've had on our dyno. The Cobb Access Port can be a Marvel of Modern Technology if you actually know how to use it.

How modded were the 370Zs you've tuned?

We've tuned the entire range of possible sets ups. We've done cars that were bone stock, mild bolt ons, all bolt ons, to twin turbo set ups, and we've seen gains that were beyond our best expectations.

Another thing to take into account is that Cobb is always coming out with new tuning programs which give the us more and more control over all the different aspects of the car. This gives us the ability to see better gains as time goes on.

I just wan't to throw something out there... Just connecting some dots here and what i'm seeing is 500+ hp turbo kits on an 11 to 1 compression ratio engine, with nothing but fuel tunes as the timing does its own thing right now for both cobb and uprev... does that sound right?

Can we see dyno sheets please of the setups you're talking about (I've seen the TT one, any ones available for the other setups?)

got around 8whp with the up rev thats with all bolt on dones

If I am reading all of this correctly, you guys aren't able to tune timing tables yet, right? How safe is a N/A car that has been converted to FI without adjusted timing? I saw that your kit got good numbers, but that just seems to be a really sub-optimal set-up. On my old Suby, timing was what we spent the most time tuning.

asked that already seems ludacris

I've seen this question thrown around a lot lately. From the post I made in the 370ZTT Thread:

We had great success working with the COBB AP (and COBB directly) with this 370ZTT. With the MAFS, the car drives flawlessly. The cobb software can drop the timing curve, but the ECU has a lot of logic that modifies the curve to be what is optimal for the car at any give time.
So timing changes must be well matched - say if the curve that you've put in is too aggressive, at points the ECU may adjust. We tested the COBB AP extensively with the 370Ztt and experienced no knock, no limp modes, no codes (HFCs work wonders) and the car simply runs perfect (and moves out!)

I am not sure about the G37 however as it is different and we have not yet (but soon) tuned a twin turbo g37 with the COBB. The only way we could control the G37 required hard-wiring f-cons in the past.

I am not doubting your anecdotal evidence as such, and as I said, your results look great (and so does the build), but I wanted to know more along the lines of tuning principles. FI cars have significantly different timing tables than N/A, particularly in the area of boost onset. It may be that with the low boost pressures you are currently running, it's just not that critical. But, there seems to be no way to go high-boost without prospective control of the timing tables. I am sure the ECU is good at monitoring knock and pulling timing, but bottom line is that all of its logic is based on the assumption of a N/A engine. I am not willing to take a chance on an expensive engine with retrospective type adjustments. One serious detonation event at high-boost could become a very expensive mistake.

OK I'm curious.

AAM_COMP and Clint:

If I show up at your door tomorrow with full boltons and 310whp stock tune.. how successful do you think you're going to be at making power? How much?