I was basing that off the OP. 10hp doesn't seem worth the extra money and hassle of installing extra items as well as introducing a new point of failure into the drivetrain system.

If I were boosted, my answer would be different.

Lol like the OP?



Nothings extra though. OEM GTR injectors could fail just as easy as OEM 370's. And a tunes a tune.

I would have to buy injectors, preferably a flex fuel sensor, something to monitor the ethanol content and a new fuel pump.

+ECUTek

....Not for 10hp.

The real benefit when making the switch to E85 or flex fuel is the safety margin that is provided against detonation. Chasing NA numbers is difficult in itself, but reliability/safety becomes an issue when climbing higher and higher up that ladder. Same thing for turbo and supercharged applications.

Flex fuel is one of the great things that our government developed and released to the public. Too bad not many companies (especially the outer lying stations) took the opportunity...........

O yeah not me haha. $200 injectors and call it a day. And i spent $10 on a test tube to measure the content.

This is what my tuner did like. Beat the hell out of it on the dyno and i quote "not a bit, nothing, zero sign of any detonation at all!" I dont know how sensitive he made my knock sensor but for a track car this makes me feel good. Again i tested this batch of fuel at E80.

I was thinking about cjm stage 1 kit and ID 750 injecrors with aeromotive fuel pump 340. Overkill?

For N/A? Yes. But if your panning a FI build then you'll already have your fuel system in place

What he said

Ok. Just gtr injectors and fuel pump? I still plan on doing the high rev build. I just dont want to go back and buy more parts rather have it in place. Thats why i thought of doing the id 750 and cjm stage 1.

If your going to stay N/A and do a full build with ethanol, then raise your compression ratio as well to take better advantage of the ethanol.

I think if 1slowz had raised his c/r and did ethanol he might have come very close or breached 400whp

Injectors only here, seems fine. Op used nothing

That will prob happen in 2-3 years once i get the money saved up for ipp stage 2 short block

Which is exactly why my engine build is planned around 14:1 compression - that alone should provide a healthy torque increase and the cams will shift the torque up the rev-range and improve HP

Lol im trying to keep it street0-able

My OP clearly demonstrated I gained power with the fuel alone running pump gas timing. If you can't at least see those gains on UpRev you've got another problem.

Tried what?

uprev vs ecutek on e85... i would have thought you would be able to make gains with uprev too. however, as syno tested it on his and he lost power. i got in contact with a tuner here in atlanta that claims i would make power even with uprev.

also, is there a definite answer on will going e85 do anything to the car in the long run.

Im pretty sure I remember seen a guy on here running with E85 and showed gain which was with Uprev last year.
There is an issue somewhere in the tuning because Uprev can advance it to 32 at high load/RPM

I run E85 on cars as old as the early 90's, haven't had a problem.

Screw UpRev and their garbage software. I bought their dealer package as well and it's the biggest pile of crap you can imagine. I won't disgrace my Z with that ****, lol.

Sorry, but there is absolutely no way that your car gets better gas mileage with E85 over E15 or less pump gas.

Right, doesn't e85 usually result in a pretty substantial drop in mileage? It's about 30% less energy by volume than pump gas and that's why you need more volume than pump, right?

Thats what i thoughr

Phunks been running it 3 years without issue. Only issues ive seen is on old cars. Google e85 black sludge.


This for me? My tuner didnt say he couldnt set the timing higher, he said it wouldnt take it. The ecu and or uprev wont let him do ****. And if my post on why e85 lost power over 93 makes sense to anyone else besides me than thats why. 28* just isnt enough nor good enough to preignite the mix soon enough. Im testing the dyno and tuner again real soon going back to 93 and going back to 2.5" CAI. Ill find my power loss if it kills me.

Per my tuner its 33%. This is why i was able to install GTR injectors and drive without issue on e85! At a rough guess of 14% rich that was in the clear to get to him 40 minutes away on the highway and side streets without so much as even a hickup.

FYI to anyone needing to install injectors at home and drive to your tuner.

a reputable shop here in atlanta got back to me and the tuner from the shop stated that power can be made on uprev with e85. they quoted me around $500 for the tune as it would take a couple hours according to them. now i have to justify spending around $700 for maybe 10whp.

In the case of my GM truck, the drop in fuel consumption is way less than 30%. The drop in energy content is also less than 30%. The number 30% or 33% is used to size up injectors and fuel pump to give them cushion so that they work in a smaller duty cycle.

E85 has a much higher knock resistance and it burns at a lower temperature, these two traits allow the engine to run at near stoichiometric (i.e. leaner) and at very advanced ignition timing for a more complete burn producing a better use of the fuel. When a PCM senses a knock with E10, it backs off timing and injects more fuel to combat its destructive effects, meaning power output is lower and fuel consumption is higher, then the driver uses more throttle to compensate which makes the fuel consumption of E10 is now much closer to that of E85, or possibly, even less.

Yes. E85 has about 72% as much energy as an equivalent gallon of gasoline. E10 should have about 96%.

The drop in energy content is very close to 30%. E85 is absolutely better for power, particularly in boosted applications, due to what you pointed out. That said you are just not going to get better or even close to the gas mileage you'll get on regular gasoline or E10.

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/...ison-test.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoli...lon_equivalent

Right. So if someone is claiming the same, if not 1-2 miles per gallon improvement, they are in error since it would not be possible to get the same mileage on a fuel that has less energy by volume. Maybe he's looking at the mpg gauge which is now wrong due to different injectors? :confused:

I'm also unclear how someone can claim a power improvement from going to E85 without any timing adjustments. Can someone explain how that works? I'm at a loss.

if you just switch to e85 without a tune, you won't make any power. with the correct tune you are supposed to make power... not sure how other than it's higher octane rating than 93.

That's what I thought as well, but someone in here is claiming that he saw a power increase with zero timing changes. I was under the impression that the additional power from an E85 tune came from the additional timing you could run.

:iagree:

i'm in the process of getting gtr injectors and then setting up a tune and i'll see what i gain. right now im at 324, but i've heard that the dyno at z1 reads high and i'm going to a different place this time.

The OP has OEM injectors so the gauge should read right as it goes off of injector duty cycling. I'd personally stick with Z1, good to be on the same dyno! I'm betting now Jon does have tuning secrets but remember they read "high" because they use 5th and STD. Ask him to do a run in 4th and SAE. I'm betting you come down to about 309 as that's what others use. The last 370z I tested with my ported parts made 324 in 5th SAE. He had ported TB, upper and lower, FI lth and CBE and gen 3 CAI. in 4th he only put down 316. I'm guessing since you don't have ported stuff the dynojets read about the same and not reading high, it's just what you run and correct for is all.

only reason i dont feel like going back to z1 is because it's almost a 2 hour drive whereas this other shop is about 40min and the other thing is cause of some idiot they don't you go to the back to see the car tuned anymore. you have to wait in the front... i believe something happened and a guy tried to sue them or something so i understand where they're coming from with that, but it's boring to sit in the lobby for 2+ hours

Haha I hear yeah. Take a friend, go to a strip club.

They are mistaken if they believe that under similar conditions they are seeing similar fuel economy (much less an increase) with E85 over E10 or regular petrol.

E85 allows you to change the timing to a range not possible to run on standard gasoline due to knock. Without a tune to take advantage of it, you should not see any difference in power. It's like putting 94 octane in a Prius.

It does in some cases (other platforms I've done). However my original statement about it being more economical turned out to be false -- the eco calculation on the dash is junk, not accurate on E85, and sadly not even accurate on pump gas.

That's because UpRev is crap.

28* still makes more power with E85 over pump gas. I added zero extra ignition advance and still saw 5-6hp gained.

seems all e85 for n/a will make is 6-10whp. i ordered myself injectors and plan on getting the car tuned mid october. i might grab the plenum mod while i'm at it, so it will be hard to tell what i truly make from e85.

If it make 5-10more whp all across the board id be happy with that.

It'll be E70 by then. Id cut some power off those numbers.