I looked up the maps and i don't seem to have a stock map
Uprev said last week that should have a fix real soon.
If I were to guess I would say it would be within the next couple of weeks

weeks??? LOL this kind of thing they better fix in the next couple of hours...

I'm sure they'll take care of it ASAP. I am just worried I'll have to make another long trip to UpRev in Austin and if that's the case then..well i dunno what I'll do because that probably won't happen for a couple months at least but we'll see. I can't imagine this problem taking too long to fix because it would seem since they got most of this figured out already these little quirks would just be simple rounding out some rough edges. I also tried the stock map but couldn't tell it to be any different. :confused: I also seriously doubt Sharif is screwing semtex, I would trust Sharif and I trust UpRev to fix the issue and make things right.:tup:

Sharif is a standup guy, 100%. He cared enough about what was going on with my car to call me Saturday night at 10pm to discuss it. That says it all. It is not my intention to cast aspersions on anyone's integrity here, be it Sharif's or UpRev's. I have 100% confidence in both parties. I have reported this issue only because it is my personal policy to be open and candid about whatever results I get, good or bad, for the betterment of the community (i.e., I believe in open knowledge-sharing amongst fellow enthusiasts).

I don't know where you guys are getting the idea that anyone is saying otherwise. I don't doubt the integrity of either of these institutions. That is why I expect them to take care of it very quickly. People have to understand that these things happen and that they often are easy quick fixes.

I was thinking about this and wondering if you guys don't think it might not be UpRev's problem, but rather the effect of a Nissan safety feature responding to what it perceives as a problem. What I mean is that maybe Nissan has built in coldstart safety features. I know I've felt that hesitation where you push down and it does nothing and then lurches forward. I know the feeling you guys are talking about because I've definitely felt it (to a lesser extent) on my stock tune. So maybe its the ECU responding more aggressively to protect the engine during cold startups. I know there are lots of "maybes" here, but I'm just throwing out a somewhat logical explanation that may give someone an idea as to what's going on.

Just being logical eliminates tuners from the equation. The only two things everyone has in common are the uprev ROMs and the Nissan ECU. I doubt, after all these years of programming for Nissan and uprev's usage of other stock ECU functions, that they would have mistakenly cause a silly issue like this. Kinda leads me to think that the culprit is the new player in the mix...

Makes sense, definitely possible.

I think B1nks was responding to NIZMOZ's assertion that "Sounds to me like Sharif is making excuses" when he stated that he doesn't think Sharif is screwing me. So I just wanted to be unequivocal in my agreement with him is all.

As for your theory about this being a coldstart safety feature, sure it's possible. But whatever it is, that doesn't mean we can't desire for UpRev to find a way around the 'feature', if they can. Unlike you, I never experienced this behavior in my car prior to the tune. So if it's a safety feature responding to a perceived problem, it's a perception that didn't exist in my particular car prior to the tune. Does that mean there really is a problem that now exists as a result of the Uprev flash? Or that there is no problem but the Nissan ECU is now confused? Who knows. But time will tell, after Uprev does their investigation. On the off chance that they say this the way it is, we have to live with it, I'm prepared to do just that. But at least people will know what to expect with Uprev tunes for this car moving forward.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to. I too did not experience this problem prior to the flash on my stock settings. I'm hoping UpRev chimes in sometime today with any sort of news. Semtex do you know if Sharif has contacted UpRev about this yet ? I would assume he has but if he hasn't I will just to let them know what's up.:tiphat:

You guys have never felt a gear go flat around 3k rpm on cold starts? Its slight, but its there...kinda feels like "ok buddy im cold, shift here please" It may well be a mechanical thing too from the engine just having to warm up to seal well.

I didnt say they couldn't. I want them to work around this problem just as much as you do, I'm waiting for the fix to go get the car tuned. I'm sure they will look at logs to see what the car is doing electronically around those points and pinpoint the problem then work out the bug. Its going to be a bit annoying to have to reproduce the problem on completely cold starts though haha. Chances are they are working on a fix right now...

I do not know if Sharif has contacted UpRev yet. But I believe John from Z1 has. In any case, it wouldn't hurt for you to contact them as well just to make sure they're aware. Let me know what they say.

I think you're experiencing something different. What I'm feeling isn't up at 3000rpm. It's between 1000-2500 rpm, right where you tip the throttle in as you feather in the clutch. The easiest way to describe the feeling is of a sticky throttle. You depress the gas pedal as you let in the clutch, and the revs just don't climb. It just kinda lags and you don't go anywhere. Then all of a sudden it 'unsticks' and jumps up to around 2500rpm (give or take a few hundred), resulting in a sudden lurch forward. So what happens (with me at least) is I reflexively disengage the clutch when I feel the lurch. But then I'm sitting still again. To a bystander on the outside, it probably looks like I'm brand new to driving MT. What I have to do to get moving is make a conscious effort to override my reflex and not disengage the clutch completely when it lurches. Just lighten up the clutch without complete disengagement. That way, I get actual forward motion and proceed on my way. It's anything but smooth. lol

how long would you have to warm your car up to avoid the cold start issue you are having ?

^ Not sure. I haven't tried -- I don't have the patience. I'd guess around 3 mins. of just sitting there with the ending idling.

if you wait even around 30 seconds or so and start to drive the really bad lurch won't happen. What I have noticed happening is, you get it into first and start driving and lets say you give it 30% throttle and hold it there. The revs will be lag, maybe something comparable to the feeling of turbo lag, and then without adjusting the throttle input the rpms will rise at the normal rate of speed. Now to a passenger it may just seem like you've just opened the throttle some but really it hasn't moved. Really something like turbo lag, as if you mashed the throttle down low and it just lags until the turbo kicks in and then kicks off. It will stop after 1-2 mins of driving though. These times also probably vary depending on how cold it is outside also.

Hmm...I always wait at least 30 seconds before I start driving and still have this lurch. I guess maybe it's not as bad as it'd be if I didn't wait before going, huh?

yeah, probably..was hoping UpRev would have shown up with a post at least saying that they have been informed and will be looking into it or something..

They're probably on their way to SEMA.

is this happening on the 7ATs too? Or has no AT been tuned yet?

Two pages back:

Rich did say last week he was going to SEMA he was staying at the Stratosphere I think that is the name Maybe we can call him there:stirthepot:
I am going to take the Texas Titan to Uprev on Wed to get tuned.I will get some info then. There it is in the background

Oh yeah, he is at SEMA but Jared and the rest should be there and that's who matters in this instance. I'll call tomorrow to find something out..not sure they even get on here since Rich does most of the marketing side of things.

So are we seeing the opposite trend of trying to reduce the throttle lag and improve response? :-(

Only at cold start for the first couple of mins. After that, it's all good. I've actually started to get used to the behavior and, this morning, was able to change the way I modulate the clutch enough to actually get off the line semi-smoothly. I wouldn't switch back to my stock ROM right now even if I could. The benefits of the tune outweigh this minor bug. Of course, that's just my opinion as it relates to my specific car. Others may feel differently. And for 7AT models, there's no way to change the way you modulate the clutch, so there's no workaround if you have a 7AT (point being, this still needs to be fixed).

Rich would be the one going to Sema if anyone went. Jared would stay at the shop with the other guys doing the tunes as he knows the software in and out while Rich is just the sales person.

Knowing how uprev works, they should have a fix really really quickly. And the issue is only on cold start for a few seconds. After that, it seems normal.

Sharif, have you talked to them to confirm they're aware of the issue?

semtex what's up with your sig ? "15th runner up to RCZ " i get the feeling there is some humor in this.

We got a little silly one night on RCZ's journal thread, started trash-talking at each other (in jest). Link -> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...html#post71466

haha, everyone knows its backwards now. I am the runner up. Whats your next step anyway?

I'm thinking sway bars. You did sways, didn't you? Which ones did you go with? Stillen? Hotchkis?

Other than that, I need to shift my fiscal priorities for the foreseeable future. It pains me to say this, but as a result of IBM's relentless labor globalization and wage equalization strategy, my job responsibilities are being transferred to their new center in Dubuque, IA. Which means there's a good chance that I'll be losing my job in a few months. Needless to say, modding just dropped a few rungs down in the priorities ladder. :(

I hear you buddy. While not for the same reasons, modding has fallen back a bit on my list too. I WAS going to get my sways, but decided to hold out a little while this thing blows over. I am thinking about going with the stillen. They have been great to me so far and I think their sways will be everything I need.

Sorry to hear that man, IBM has been cutting jobs left right and center. At least they have decent layoff packages if you have been there for a few years.

From what I could determine the Hotchkis was slightly stiffer than the Stillen, however I think the Stillen suits a street car better. On my car the Hotchkis was too stiff up front for the stock alignment to handle and was detrimental to turn-in response until the front camber was increased. The Stillen also appears to be better made in that they use a crimp on lateral stop instead of a welded stop like the Hotchkis. The Hotchkis have been known to fail at the weld. I also think the Stillen is cheaper. The Hotchkis is 3-way adjustable in the rear where as the Stillen is only 2-way. Neither is adjustable up front.

I can only speak for the stiffness of the Hotchkis on my car but the body roll was greatly reduced, and the grip level increased slightly in the mid to high speed cornering. Car also feels more predictable with bumps in corners at speed.

I'm actually a little surprised that they are doing all of this laying off since my buddy just got offered a job there. His major is international business and he will be graduating Texas A&M in december, I believe, and they told him he has the choice of LA cali, ATL,GA ; Boston,MA; Houston or Dallas Texas; NYC. Makes me wonder if he knows about the job cutbacks..what is it you do for IBM ?

Thanks for the advice and explaining the differences, Chris. Much appreciated. Yeah, what IBM is doing now is just . . . I don't know quite how to describe it. Sad? Evil? Not sure.

IBM has been sending jobs overseas for several years now to places like Brazil, India, and China. Now that their labor force in those geos is well established, the workers there have been demanding higher wages that are more on par with those of the U.S. Can't say I blame them. Equal pay for equal work, right? Well, IBM's response strategy is to methodically reclassify the pay grades for the remaining U.S. jobs. Our pay grade has 10 band levels. I'm a band 7. They're taking my job (along with all the others in my area) and moving them to this new delivery center in Dubuque. If I want to keep doing what I'm doing, I'm free to move to Dubuque on my own dime and re-apply for my position. But there's a catch -- my job in Dubuque will be Band 4. So, exact same work, a fraction of my current pay. By doing methodically across the board to their entire U.S. workforce, they pull the rug out from those folks overseas who are demanding wage parity. Essentially, IBM can say to them: "You want wage parity? You got it. See? Now you're making the same money your U.S. counterparts make, because we lowered U.S. salaries to be on par with those in the developing world. There's your wage parity."

The irony of all this is that globalization was intended to help end poverty in the developing world by bringing their wages up to developed-world levels. But instead, it's driving developed-world wages down. So the disparity in wealth distribution will go up commensurate to a sharply reduced middle class. Welcome to the new world order.

Hey all,
Jared here at UpRev. I just started hearing about this from Sharif early this morning and I also got a call from caneman88 today.
The hesitation is a really strange problem and we have not come across anything like it before. You'll have to excuse us for not finding this during development. It's pretty rare that we're working on a cold car. They are usually running on the dyno for hours and hours while we test.

The big delay on getting this resolved is going to be us getting access to a car so we can duplicate it an trouble shoot the issue. caneman88 said that he can bring his Z back up here for us to work on if for a day and I feel that there is a very good chance we'll be able to get it figured out in a day and get it resolved (as long as we're not having to let it cool down for 5+ hours between tests), but that's going to be 1-2 weeks from now depending on his schedule. If there is anyone in the Austin area who is willing to come in and let us test on their Z for 24 hours this week I will offer a free reflash license to them for the use of their Z. I would have to be a 370Z with one of the EAxxx ROMs since that seems to be the family of ROMs that is having this problem and they will need to be able to leave it here overnight so it can cool off enough to duplicate the problem.

There was mention of a user who is too far away from their tuner to get the car all the way back for the fix once we have this figured out... if you're willing to make a $200 "deposit" on a Cipher cable we can ship you an Osiris standard system with the fixed ROM and your tune loaded into it so that you can update your ECU and ship the cable back to us to get your $200 deposit back.

In the mean time, if there is anyone out there having this issue that has access to Cipher for data logging that could data log the ECU parameters when this is happening that could help us get off to an early start. It would be great to know if it's the throttle plate not opening right away, the VVEL not increasing the lift, or the fuel/ignition that is causing the hesitation. I will offer the same deal as above if someone wants to put down a deposit on a Cipher cable to get these logs for us.

About dumping the ROMs off of a 370Z... yes, it does take an hour to do any unsupported ECU. If it's already supported then it is possible to do the fast 2-5 minute dump, but if it's already supported, then we already have a copy of the ROM on file so there is little need to dump. You can't flash one of our dumped ROMs anyway. It has to be sent back to us so that it can be properly formatted to work with Osiris. There is a "back to stock" feature for the older style ECUs, but our developers are still working on support for the Gen4 ECUs found in the 370Z. They should have that feature wrapped up within a couple of weeks, but we felt that it was important to get the tuning capability out to our tuners even without the back to stock feature.

Please let me know if anyone has any further input or questions on the subject.
Jared@UpRev.com

I'm a business analyst. It doesn't surprise me that your buddy got offered a job by IBM, because they're doing a LOT of hiring. You see, in conjunction with my previous post above (which I know you didn't get a chance to read prior to your reply), IBM is replacing all the veteran IBMers that are getting sacked. There's a good chance that your buddy is taking over a job that someone else just got laid off from, and at a fraction of the pay the other person was making. This leads me to the 'evil' part of this whole thing. At the end of the day, the execs are going to spin this by saying 'Look at how many U.S. jobs we created!' Those bastards are going to try to come out of this looking like heroes. It's not by chance that they've opened a huge new delivery center in Dubuque, Iowa. They deliberately chose a region of the country that is a little more lacking in job opportunities, so that they can say 'We brought thousands of new jobs to the heartland of America'.

Jared, thanks for taking the time to provide us with such a detailed update and explanation of all the different aspects. Very much appreciated! :tiphat:

Anytime.

And yes, Rich is out at SEMA. Normally we all go and have a good time in LA and Vegas for a week, but this year me John and Hans all stayed behind to work on development. Just too many things to get done and not even close to enough time, as is life.

Jared@UpRev.com

Jared,

Some info you might find interesting. On another thread, jpit (another member) threw the following code:

P2721 Pressure Control Solenoid “D” Control Circuit High

Now here's the interesting part. This is what jpit just posted:

I'm hoping that might be a good clue for your troubleshooting.

You gotta hate the corporate structure. Everything is done based on what is best for profits and not what is best for the employees, the customer, or even the long term stability of the company. I was an engineer for Applied Materials (microchip manufacturing equipment manufacturer) for ~4 years before I started UpRev and they are into all the same crap. Sending jobs over seas, cutting wages whenever they can find a good excuse, overworking and under paying EVERYONE. It's total BS, but in a country (and now world) where corporations rule supreme above all governments, it's never gonna change, only get worse until they squeeze us all so hard the whole system fails. I'm a firm believer in true capitalism and what it does for communities, but that's not what we've had in this country for a LONG time. It's been corporatisum for a LONG time now and true capitalists don't stand a chance.

That's a start. Sounds like the throttle plate to me since now the throttle plate is actually just used to maintain manifold pressure (or vacuum as it were) and the VVEL is what actually controls the engine revs. We'll probably start by removing the ETC patches (since you really don't need to tune them on the VVEL engines anyway) and see what that does for us.

Jared@UpRev.com