Fuel starvation, who else?

Red__Zed

unless you are buying a prepped car or very slow, you are an idiot for running stock brake pads/fluid on a track, even if they can be used, it just makes sense to swap them.

Adding an extra pump to the fuel tank is another animal entirely.

travisjb

Let's keep it civil, gents.

"Treat everyone like a gentleman,
not because they are, but because you are."

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2009 370Z #104
*For Sale*

cossie1600

Nope, I wasnt talking about anyone but you! I never said Nissen shouldnt fix it for free, but I have always said that you have a better chance of seeing god than getting Nissan to fix anything or doing the right thing. (see steering lock too). As of right now, there is no fix. you can come up with one to make money or just deal with it like everyone else.

Mike

Or if you are just taking your wife's Z4 out for a session to see how it handles on the track. But then again, her brakes held up fine for me.

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NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z
Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

Red__Zed

Again, not serious tracking if you're taking it out for a couple laps.

Bucketlist2012

Best post of the day...and the signature ? Priceless..

I will do my own testing this Summer...Until then...No Comment..

Thanks to those who gave some good info..And to Travis, for some sanity.

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2009 Sport/Touring 370Z
1971 Z/28 with coil overs, rushforth's, willwoods, Hotchkis. 4 speed
GMC Sierra1500

wstar

I won't defend Nissan any further. In other threads/places you'll find me cursing them up and down the wall on some issues. But you (and they) have to look at reality too. Even on a very enthusiast forum like this one (which, IMHO, is a step above the car culture in many car forums), take a look around at the ratios of "types" of owners by the threads and mods and whatnot.

Most people buy sportscars to look sporty. Whether it's a stereotypical "chick buys sportscar because it looks sexy" or a guy that buys a car because he thinks it looks racecar-y and then does a bunch of "I want it to look faster and meaner" mods. I'd love it if Nissan ignored all those people and released a true track-ready car that made no compromises. You could order this dream car for $30K and it would come with proper oil/tranny/diff cooling, a completely stripped and caged interior like the NISMO RC version, no radio, no AC, an ABS OFF switch, no Ice Mode programming, etc.

But it'll never happen. The two nearest approximations they can offer us, given the market, is the consumer 370Z we have today, and the $150K NISMO RC. There's just not a good market for a brand new pure track car where you can sell it on the cheap side at high volume, so car companies compromise. They try to give us something the enthusiasts can still make use of if they put some work into it. The fuel starve thing is a rather unfortunate design problem, but I still think if you've got a reason to really complain about it being a practical problem for you, you're already in the kind of category where you're modding the hell out of the car. Adding a surge tank or whatever isn't that huge a deal.

Most owners, when given the option to vote with their dollars, will pay more for a better factory subwoofer setup than to get a fuel starve fix from Nissan.

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7AT Track Car!
Journal thread / Car setup details

phunk

Last leg here... we have a pair of intake manifolds going in the CNC on saturday and then its surge can production time.

BTW, our prototype tester told me yesterday he has 400 miles on it now on this track only car between dyno and track testing. Sometime in the last week or two he had it on thunderbolt or thunderhill or something along those lines near NJ and he said he was able to run the car to at 1/4 tank (or maybe he said just below, cant recall) without a single hiccup yet. So he hasnt found a limit of our prototype so far. This track apparently is a mostly right hand track? You guys would know better than me. Either how, he said he used to have a lot of problems on this one. But there is another track that was the biggest problem for the car that he is going to be testing on soon and that should be the final results.

The part I was really happy to hear about was that he was satisfied enough with the results so far, that instead of moving to a fuel cell as he originally had planned, he has ordered another OEM gas tank from Nissan to weld on the dry break fill neck stuff and move the existing rig all over to it and put it in the car.



As for complaining about Nissan not fixing this.... This is car has the worst fuel starvation I have seen. Its it not acceptable at all. I have been around tons of sports cars working in this industry for a long time... its always been common sense to be careful at low tank levels but the 370z is horrendous... I am not exageratting when I say I can EASILY get my 370z, with only 1 LED of the gas gauge not lit, to completely starve coming out of a right hander. It wasnt so bad when my car was more stock, it used to have to be half tank or below... but at mid 500s to the wheels on 305 R compound tires, using E85 (increases fuel needs roughly 30%)... this is rediculous.

MOST cars will need a surge can setup at SOME point. I have never seen a car that needs one STOCK.

Where nissan went wrong, is not entirely clear to me. This cars fuel system is nearly identical to the 350z in its theory... just some things have been shaped and squished around a little... but the entire theory on how it operates is the same and the 350z did not have the problem NEARLY as bad. My 350z was setup more than my 370z and could turn harder, and made more power, and only once in 7+ years of having that car fully mod'd and twin turbo, did I ever get right hand fuel starvation.

There are easy changes that could be made to the gas tank itself, that would cost nissan very little, that would resolve this issue. But making changes to the gas tank in the aftermarket in just not the same... it needs to be done before the gas tank is welded together at the factory and filled with gasoline. Once that is all done, forget adding anything significant to the inside structure of the tank... and getting the tank inside and out of these cars is no fun task either.

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Ron

say.. intake manifolds for the Z?

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2011 Twin Turbo PW nismo #113 - My Journal - My TT Build Thread
[ GTM GTX Stg2 TT || HKS EVC6 || Custom CarPC || F.I 3'' TDX CBE || SB 6puck clutch/ZSpeed CSC || BC BR Coilovers || SPC camber arms || Work VSS-X || Custom Headlights || PW:JDM CF Covers || Seibon CF Engine Cover ]

phunk

to add to this... the fuel starvation in this car is so bad that even with a surge tank configuration setup.. I have concerns of the primary pump (pump that fills the surge can) frying on a regular basis due to constant abuse of running dry. With people who track regularly, even with our surge can product, I might recommend people keep a couple small tools and a backup primary pump on hand.

There is very little I can do to help the primary pump from running dry. I have built in some "recovery" features that I believe will help aid the primary pump from getting dry quite as often... but I have no way to tell if that will be enough until I have a whole clan of you guys out there running this setup.

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cossie1600

No revision as of last year, still the same BS. I wonder if the 2013 cars have a revised gas tanK?!?

phunk

If they did, I would probably know by now. I say that only because our prototype tester is a part of a Nissan dealership, and he would have most likely noticed a change in the part number. If the tank itself using the same part number has been revised, then we will know that shortly when his new tank arrives.

BTW Our prototype is in the Performance Motorsports 370z. I dont think they post a whole lot, but I did a quick search and found they have some videos on youtube but they dont add any descriptions or anything. I havent been there in person to see anything, but I assume this is the car running the prototype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Wzh...feature=relmfu

I cant recall when he installed the prototype, I would have to look back thru this thread at my old posts... I dont think it was in the car in that video.

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ChrisSlicks

Thunderbolt and Lightning are the two NJ tracks.

Thunderbolt is all right hand turns except for 2 lefts, the 7, 8, 9 linked corners take you through a 270 degree sweep and is pretty brutal for fuel starve if you have sticky tires.
Thuderbolt Track Map

Lightning is also all right hand turns with 2 lefts thrown in. The tough one here is the 9, 10 combo. It is a lightly banked high speed (90 mph entry, 110 exit) turn called the lightbulb that takes you through 180 degrees. You are 50% throttle after turn-in and then 100% throttle by the time you spot the late apex. You usually get the fuel stave here as you are straightening out the car for the main straight.
Lightning Track Map

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phunk

Yes but for more DE engines.

Very little has been done on our 370z billet intake. Its actually been waiting for the surge can. I told myself why even bother with the intake for now when we are struggling to wrap up the surge can which is going to sell far better. I will probably zip up the intake manifold when the surge can is done.

I could make a 5 page post about that stuff but I dont want to take this thread off track

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scruffydog

HAHA, true...most people I know don't buy a "Sports Car" to drive it like a Sports car. Every once in a blue moon you'll see them driving it hard in a straight line, but most of the time they just wanna be noticed that they're in a "Sports Car" that can do whatever spec they can remember from the brochure. But they won't ever like to take it to the extreme because they're worried they'll damage their expensive toy.

Which is why Nissan won't acknowledge too much of this, if we start a poll for majority of the Z owners, they probably won't even know this was a problem to begin with. They'll probably complain about how sucky the upgraded Boss stereo being an issue, loud cabin noise, etc. Rather than oil over temp, fuel starvation, or even brake fade issue.