Trunk mounted fuel cell install?
 

Ok not to put down phunks in tank fuel starve fix, but I think I can save a few dollars by installing a trunk mounted fuel cell. I see a few benefits... 1. Save some coin. 2. Have a real fuel cell in case of a crash. 3. Move a heavy amount of weight to the very very back end even though it will get higher up for the center of gravity. My car has a 57/43 weight ratio so to move that behind the rear tires vs in front might help a few things. 4. Possibly doing an exhaust that vents out the rear quarter panels :tup:

How would I go about tackling this? Just confused about what to do with the OEM pump configuration and the floater in the drivers side tank. I doubt there's a fuel cell with two openings that will just take both units as a drop in.

Any ideas?

yes moving weight back will help even out the weight balance, but at the same time it polorizes the weight, so dynamically the car will handle worse in some aspects. think 911 porsche with weight in the back. I feel since the OE tank is lower and centrally located, it's actually a better location.

Seems like alot of work, and in the end you have a fuel cell in your trunk LOL

I could always cut the trunk out and mount down low.

Even if you mount low, you don't want to intentionally put weight at the far rear end of the car. Yes, your weight distribution number for F/R would get fixed, but keep in mind that's just an approximate metric; the real goal is a well-balanced car, and a well-balanced car keeps as much weight as possible close to the CG. Hanging weight out at the end is making the car into a pendulum; it will tend to over-react.

What clint says is the truth: the stock location is pretty ideal all things considered. It's hard to place a fuel cell's weight better than that, especially given it saddles over the driveline hump to get even lower. (And really, I can't imagine a safe and correct switch to a fuel cell that would cost less than phunk's kit at the end of the day anyways by the time you factor in all the parts involved, especially if you want to fill from outside the car).

Also, while good fuel cells are designed to minimize fire risk when impacted, it's still not a great idea to stick them out on the edge of the car where they're most likely to be impacted in the first place. If I had a fuel cell, I'd at least want it to be inside the volume of the cage.

You really want the weight of the fuel inside the wheelbase for best effect on handling ....

You could look at something like a JAZ fuel cell, but you are going to carve-up and destroy the rear of the car ............. if it is to be a dedicated track car it will be OK I guess, but selling it will only ever be a track car then.

If you want a cell fabricated, it will not be cheap - the cell/bag for my race car cost me over $3K for an FIA compliant cell and that was re-purposed.

Or you could build a saddle sytle fuel cell to fit in stock location. I agree unless you are goling full on race car I'd go with current aftermarket fix for stock tank. Fuel cell is fairly expensive endevour. ..and if youre going to trouble of fuel cell might as well do return line type system with ability to regulate pressure etc. Mine ended up ultimately costing around $6K Not sure I would have gone there intially in my street car.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1.../IMAGE_146.jpg

^ Yeah Shamu's car has a very optimal solution, especially given they walled off the fuel cell area from the driver compartment. But that's gonna take some serious fabrication and $$.

yep not cheap.

Is that not what our big heavy V6 is doing at front though? Depending on the cells width I can be mounted as far forward as possible with it leaning up against that rear reenforcement section. That's pretty much the rear axles. I would have a rear roll cage around it. I have to ask Doran racing I think because they fill up with the hatch open right at the back. I'd take that car in a second. At this point I'm more concerned about wiring although I take everyone thoughts into consideration.

Minute :19.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra4C7AI1qIU

I guess I don't see that cost. Buy a cell, buy hoses, hook up. My labors free so...I just need to see the layout I guess and what options I have for pickup and/or return.

Im not quoting any labor to put mine in - thats just all parts. To do a proper fuel cell with scavenging pumps, main pump, you want fuel gauge?, proper lines, safety features, fire wall, fuel intake system etc your looking at some coin. If youre not going to do it right why switch your stock tank? You'd be better off with the phunk fix. I also for short period of time cut my stock tank in half - that was cheap option as well. Doing a ghetto" fuel cell isnt going to serve you well in this car.

someone already said it but you will basically need to build a box around the fuel cell so in case of fire it doesnt come in the cabin as fast... not worth it. Run the RRP from Phunk done!

:iagree: works as advertised:tup:

Yes. If you can come up with a cheap mod for fitting the engine at the CG of this car, go for it :)

There are tons of considerations in designing a whole racecar, and I'm sure Doran's car is badass, but that still doesn't mean it's a good idea for you to stick a fuel cell all the way at the back of your car.

Another thing too. With the fuel cell at the rear. As the fuel level goes down. It will change the balance of the car.

Surge tank solution with duel pump or phunk's. I have seen the "racing", steel enclosed fuel cell in the trunk solution. It looks like a bomb and has high cg. Not explosionlessly or/and engineeringly sound imo. It just "seems" like a bad idea. Centered and low is the only real solution I think.

The surge tank solution I haven't priced, but it is not going to be less than phunk's solution.

ill stop in at doran soon, camera in hand ;)

so youre saying skip the 22 gallon and go for a 10? :tup:

U can look at other surge tanks like iridium but those go outside the tank and I do not want an external surge tank inside the cabin

would the oem pump feed the surge tank and the motor would suck from that tank? so if the surge tank inside the oem tank runs dry the motor still feeds off the surge? or would that not work since the pumps sucked air theres no pressure behind the surge to force fuel into the motor? unless the surge has its own pump? i have tons of room where the muffler used to go under the car.

Iridium has another pump check them out there is also an article on moto iq

Surge tanks have their own pump. The fuel pressure in the stock system is regulated at the stock pump. Any external surge tank is going to require re-plumbing to a return fuel system. Really, just go to punk's in-tank solution. Another happy customer.

I investigated surge tank. Again very expensive option and adds complexity to your fueling system that can potentially fail.

The in tank system from phunk is the bomb for street/track car.

yup we all said it LOL synolimit just likes to be difficult LMAO

There are extra complications with the 370z (and 350z) that make installing an external surge can more complicated and expensive than other applications. Personally not being the biggest fan of secondary fuel storage outside the tank, these complications are what pushed me to build the RRP kit. I felt that in the end and for a similar price, most customers would prefer a fully in-tank fix.

The extra complications I refer to include, as mentioned before me, a requirement for return fuel conversion in order to regulate pressure after having taken the stock regulator out of the equation when using a pump outside the tank to provide rail pressure.

An extra complication that is not addressed in common installations of an external surge can to vehicles that were originally returnless, and something that most fuel system builders and product manufacturers have likely never considered, is that the 370z/350z in-tank Venturi siphon is going to cease to function. This can be resolved quite easily by someone who is familiar with the specifics of the (somewhat unique) z33-z34 fuel system, but again, adds more cost.

The 350z doesn't experience fuel starvation to the same severity as the 370z, but I am frequently asked about a fix. My RRP product is much too tall to fit the 350z tank, and I don't believe it would offer sufficient displacement after the dramatic size reduction. Also, the 350z fuel pump module doesn't offer external plumbing to interface, adding extra cost to convert it to a 370z style module such as perhaps borrowed from a G37 (shorter than the Z unit).

Because of this, I have had intentions to create a z33 specific external surge product. While my z34 product cannot be fit to a z33, my z33 product combined with my existing z34 return fuel systems options means that I will have everything in-house to put the external z33 unit into a z34.

I believe the combined hardware between the external surge product, return fuel conversion, and transfer siphon function repair, would meet or exceed my z34 RRP product cost. It will also have no concealability inside the fuel tank, adding the annoyances and risks associated with external secondary fuel storage. But one positive side effect is that after a portion of the expense brings a return fuel system conversion to the table, the end results include a fuel system that has been upgraded to support higher flow/power and also adjustable fuel pressure. All added plumbing being external offers a side benefit of ease to future upgrades to the system, and eliminates the customers/tuners general dependency on CJM to provide clear upgrade instructions as the (mostly misunderstood) RRP demands.

I can play my own devils advocate on the topic of external surge cans versus my RRP kit. If you want to do an external surge can, I can work with you a little on cost and I know how to do it without any 370z-debilitating side effects. I need to build this for the 350z anyway, so I am interested.

Charles has spoken!!!!

!!

asking a questions isn't being difficult. i've seen the parts to use, just need a how to on wiring and such. there's 2-3 ways to do this. that's not difficulty if i choose to not pick the norm. i'm not a conformist. in fact everyone here is being a difficult kinda, not me. i've gotten nothing but peoples opinions on something i didn't ask about. take a look at my pic and if Rush is a "true story" then i'll keep doing what i've always done and might actually turn some heads doing it. in fact the more my questions are not answered and the more people create statments like this, the more i will actually never do what whats being said.

People are trying to be helpful and recommend against a potentially unwise course of action. Reacting in a rebellious manner to anyone that tries to steer you off the path you've chosen isn't necessarily a great default position to take in life. I get wanting to do you own thing; I'm frequently a victim of my own need to re-learn lessons the hard way long after the rest of society has moved past whatever it is and decided it's silly to even go down that road. It's not often a good impulse to have.

i 100% get that. i heard the first 15 times though. now i just want to move on. i just need a simple question or two answered is all. im not going down a rebellious path haha. i want something done on my car so ill go ahead and just do it. its not like it hasn't been done a million times before on other cars with 4 wheels that drive down the road. i dont see the rebellion in that. i havent done anything yet and im here talking about it first, getting ideas, asking about how to etc so that alone takes the "impulse" right out of it does it not?

well i wasnt really thinking about a surge anyways. still looking at just a tank replacement to modify the exhaust system to my liking.

then if that is what you wanna do, just do it then. Setup your dream fuel cell so you can do this wild exhaust setup you have in mind.

$5 ends up w rrp trollololol

Don't think so. Think most of the 2nd batch is sold. phunk might have one or two left. But he won't go for it.