First track day shakedown
 

Got my Z a little over a week ago just in time for a track event I was instructing at. So turned out I had a great opportunity to test it out before doing some other big track events I am planning on.

After reading SO much on this forum about the car's shortcomings for track use I decided prepping the brakes was my number one goal this week.
-Changed brake fluid to Brembo LCF 600
-Installed Carbotech pads (xp10 in front, xp8 in rear)
I had ZERO fade issues on brakes all day and I started pushing pretty hard about mid day once I felt comfortable. The setup definitely can overpower the stock tires and loosen up the rear significantly. Once I learned that I could drive around it pretty easily.

I didn't have time to review, order and install an oil cooler like so many posts suggested so my plan was to watch the temp and do short sessions.

It was a 75 degree day and with short shifting at 6,000 I was running just shy of 245. The last session I started pushing it and spent a couple laps focused on running down a Mustang. I noticed the temp almost to 260 so that ended that (he moved over, I passed :driving:)

All in all I'm VERY impressed with the car even in all stock except for the brakes. Great turn-in, slight mid corner understeer but I think an alignment will help cure that combined with me getting comfortable using the gas pedal more to rotate the rear.

Waterford Hills is a pretty small track which does beat on the brakes. Can't wait to get to a longer course and stretch the legs out more.
http://www.trackpedia.com/mediawiki/...rfordHills.jpg

Check your power steering as well. Boiled mine for the first time yesterday and again today. Other than the mess on the engine compartment no real impact that I noticed.

Z1 PS cooler and some Redine ATF will be on order ASAP.:tup:

And don't fill it up to the cold line. Leave a little extra space under the line. ;)

Wonder if this is what happened to Ric Bushey 51 at Long Beach a few weeks ago in Pirelli world challenge. In the ending credits of the race there's a shot of him coming down a straight that lead into a left hander. No one touches him but all of a sudden in the braking zone the car pitches hard left and he slams into the wall going into the corner. Was very odd to see and no one commented on it during the race. Just reminded me of a low side on a bike where you tuck the front end and once down the rear comes around or on corner exit you gas to hard and the rear slips out.

Detroit buddy! Come out to our meeting tomorrow night at 7 at JD Karting in Novi! :)

I love Waterford Hills. My first track day ever was there with SEMPCA in a terrible downpour. It's worth a trip for the semi-local folks too. If I don't get my 350 back together I'll probably do a couple of sessions in my 370 on the 21st.

Er... he's definitely not on stock tires. :)

Thinking about it. I have a later meeting right around the corner which might coincide well with this.

I'll definitely have to check that. I didn't have any issues and Waterford is a small twisty track but the temps were only low 80's so this might be an issue when it gets hotter out.

synolimit

He suffered from brakes over heating. Then track doesn't allow the for much ventilation of the heat generated by the cars. Along with running the sport akebonos his brakes just boilded over. It was a crazy hard impact as well. I was stunned that he was able to drive away a few seconds after the impact.

If the brakes overheated then how did they look like they locked up the front and his rear end came sliding around the front? It looked just like someone slamming the brakes on ice with a wheel not strait.

None of us in PWC are running the Akebono brakes and we are all running significant cooling ducts. The #51 is has a custom specced PFC brake system.

When I watched the in-car video, it just looked like he went too deep in the brake zone and jinked to the left to avoid the car in front of him, but then hooked it back to the right and down the escape road.

Learn something new every day around here. I didn't even know jinked was a word :) jink - Wiktionary

Yup, probably just add a bit of front camber and caster, and maybe a thicker front sway (e.g. Hotchkis) and you'll be rid of the understeer.

yeah i wouldn't think so. begining of that race the Stop Tech sponcer was talking them up like no other.

we might be talking about a different race?? the one i saw there was no one close to him. he just hit the brakes, pitched left, rear stepped right, and he went into the wall. no run off in that corner. looked like a very hard hit.

Okay...I have to say...

A thicker front swaybar will NOT help with understeer. It won't. The camber may, but the swaybar will not. It confuses me when people say this...

Tracy Ramsey

Great post! Thanks!

It can sometimes, counter-intuitively. I won't argue the point with you, since it's a ridiculously complicated topic and I'm not a suspension engineer (I don't even play one on TV!), and it's not like I've gone and attempted adding removing every possible combination of settings and stock/aftermarket suspension bits either :) But there are all kinds of complicated interactions going on even with a simple item like a swaybar.

In the net, I do think a stiffer front bar + adding both caster and camber in the front (I'm at approx -2.5 and 6 now on the SPL camber arms) is the magic ticket on this car for trackday stuff (assuming reasonably-upgraded coilovers and grippy tires), and I don't get any understeer issues to speak of (nor, for that matter, do I get out-of-control twitchy oversteer - I get a nice neutral feeling that's easy to push into controlled oversteer). I think the stiff front bar is part of the equation.

Man how nice would it be to lower the car and achieve -2.5?! I'm -1.5 now with swift specRs in the front. My coils will be here soon and I might lower a hair more. To bad I can't go lower and get a number I want. $800 SPL arms suck for only needing a few degrees.

Then just get the Kinetix arms (I'm selling mine BTW). They are only a little heavier than stock and a lot lighter than the SPL arms.

The initial reduction in understeer is most likely due to just reducing the body roll up front. The body roll, especially on softer springs, will induce understeer by throwing the CG towards the outside front wheel. But there should be a point where "too much" bar will yes, cause the outside to again push. But the first problem you are trying to solve with the stiffer bar is killing some body roll.

If the car was close to being balanced then a sway bar is sort of like the trim on an airplane. But when the front is bouncing around like a pogo stick as it does on the OEM suspension, you are dealing with a problem situation, not a fine tuning situation.

Now I'm agreeing. Too much roll will overwhelm the outside tire, and by reducing that roll, you are correct that it will balance the car more. Ideally, you want as little swaybar as possible up front, with the work being done by the springs. For lack of springs, the swaybar is the poor man's substitute.

Years ago I was at a little speaking engagement by Carrol Smith and it really enlightened me to the "common sense" portion of setting up cars. His quote was "Swaybars do all the right things for all the wrong reasons". Basically, the front swaybar is balancing the car by putting load on the inside spring. But the load isn't into the ground, but actually LIFTING the tire, thus reducing the grip on the inside tire...hence the push. Luckily the Z, with its immense front weight, is still able to keep a load on the inside and keep its balance. I used to autocross a MR2 Spyder...and if you have ever seen one of those (or some Porsche vehicles for that matter) with big front bars, seeing them three wheel out of corners is a very common occurence!

Tracy Ramsey

I'm running the Hotchkis sway bars (biggest bars out there).The rear on the softest setting. Front camber -2, caster +6, toe zero. Rear camber -1.75, and toe zero. With 275/35-19 front and 325/30-19 rear tires. Fo me, it feels pretty much balanced for my driving level.

No caster though. A modded SPC so the nut won't slip might be ok.

Yeah so that basically mirrors my setup, except I'm on square 275/35-18s or 285/645-18's and half a degree more front camber. I expect mine's a little more oversteer-happy than yours, but it's comfy and controllable to me. That and I'm running those nice JRZ dampers, but with fairly weak spring rates on them.

Pretty much use the same train of thought, I am also a big Carroll Smith fan.

It always bothers me when I see those damn 3 wheeling pictures lol.

So after a couple months of use, would you recommend the car for a fellow instructor?

I instruct at the Chicago Region PDX program, and I know *I* would! I am still learning some finer points of the car but so far I love it in the 4 track days I have done.

My latest "aha" moment came when I was understeering a bit (Whiteline front sway, stock rear) in steady state corners. Normally it would mean too much speed, or too much steering angle, and I tried both with limited success. So I tried to give more throttle and it worked! Basically I think you are using the on power oversteer that is inherent in the car to balance out the off throttle understeer?

Still have stock suspension underneath, and this may all change when I go to a square setup and put SPL arms on the car, but it was rather enlightening to me using power in the car...quite a change from a 125 hp Spec Miata!!!

Tracy Ramsey

Thanks Tracy! Do you feel you can drive the hell out of it like you can the Miata?

It's hard for anything to compare to an SM car. They're phenomenal through the turns and will reward you with a little more straight line speed. I just don't want to drive one everyday. I'm making the change from an ITS RX7. Less power than the Nissan and decent (at best) through the turns. I'm just trying to consolidate everything into 1 car.

Yes! The answer to every problem in the Z is more throttle, basically. Unless you're in a hard braking zone, or about to go flying off the edge of the track. Then maybe less throttle, I guess :)

Completely agree. More gas. It's one of the most un-natural instincts you have to overcome with this car. I am still pretty much a beginner driver myself, but my instructors this summer have been showing me how to really get this car to rotate using throttle, and even when appropriate at lower speeds trail braking.

It is not something instinctive that someone like myself that only has about 1.5yrs of experience doing would do. But once the light bulb goes off and you see it work. The car starts to make a lot more sense.

Of course then you need to buy a new diff. ;)

I wouldn't say you can drive the hell out of it...it is certainly less "tossable". But it does have an incredible amount of lateral grip that you can used to your advantage. It will take you time to work your way up to trusting it, but even on the STOCK tires I am on still (ugh) it is pretty amazing.

Get into the turns..ease into throttle then if you feel a bit of a push, try to tweak the throttle input (I mean MORE throttle) until you feel a very nice rotation from the rear. I have yet to snap spin mine (prefer not to actually) but that also means I haven't found the limit.

I weak points of this car are:

A. Oil temperature, which can be solved with an oil cooler. And

B. Brakes. Though they are incredible stopping, BUT they heat up. Fast. Very Fast. For light tracking you are okay. Want to run 25 minute sessions, start thinking about ducting for the brakes.

I have the Stillen kit, which undoubtably helps, but I boiled mine with fresh Motul, at Blackhawk Farms a month ago. Two disclaimers: I was running VERY hard on the brakes...wanted to really test them and after 9 or 10 laps of really pushing...I felt them going and backed out. Secondly, BHF raceway is known as the hardest track on brakes in the USA...if there is a harder one, we haven't found it.

Tracy Ramsey

The brake and oil temps can be remedied with upgrades. You say there is a lot of lateral grip, but what about putting the power down coming out of a turn? I've heard mixed reviews about the LSD. Does one need to put in an aftermarket diff? Sounds like it could use a new suspension, too.

Drew, my Z is a replacement for a Miata and I raced SM for a brief moment in time.

The Z will be a great track car but its not quite there yet. I'm trying to take baby steps with it to get the balance right but due to work, I haven't gotten as many track days as I would like to test it out. Next one is Grattan mid Sept.

Since my last post I installed a 25row Z1 oil cooler kit. Amazing difference in temps so I think that problem is solved. I was very concerned running at 260 degrees before.

The brakes will still need some attention as I want more cooling. I've got some ideas that'll be mocked up in the next coming weeks. I'll post pics as I get it worked out.

As for handling, the Z is good but not Miata great. The power is there to rotate the tail however there is a definite understeer issue that needs to be worked out. Unlike an SM you can't mash the throttle...a little more dexterity will be needed. I'm going to start with an alignment to get as much camber as stock parts will allow and possibly wider fronts since mechanical grip is always my first step. If that doesn't correct it well enough then I think the adj control arms for more camber.

From the feel of it I don't think heavier sways in the front will help with the Nismo package. Its already got heavy bars and not a lot of roll.

I run stock PS cooler with good fluid and have never had issue on track with fluid boiling?

Youre going to find the car increasingly frustrating as you start to do the things you think are easy for track work. Understeer is just related to lack of negative camber up front and perhaps toe settings. Also need plenty of tire up front too (nothing less than 285 in my opinion). SPL's adjustable upper arms are decent and allow caster adjustment as well.

If you dont make major changes in springs you will need a big front bar. It helps keep rear end planted annd does help with rollover. Overall just reduces need for so much neg camber. Hocthkis is decent cheap adjustable bar.

Oil temps. be careful your running upper end right now. Id go for biggest cooler you can mount. Also be waware if you go with sticky tires the cars have oil starve issue as well. ...speaking of starve get one of Phunks suel starve kits or you will be doomed to running full tank of gas forever.

Brakes. Be very very cautious. If you are serious track guy and like braking deep the OEM abs system will bite you with Ice mode eventually. First time it happened to me I almost $hit my pants. Had to throw car sideways into turn to slow myself down. Important to now the 370Z is heavily rear brake biased in stock form. You should keep that in mind when making pad choices.

These cars handle far better than any SM I have seen on track. I pass them in turns all the time in the Z. I

Off camber downhill turns. Car does not like it. with its weight and rear camber issues on OEM suspension. I Got brave once chasing a Lotus down a hill. 420 degrees later...:shakes head:

RA turn 11/12...pucker up

I boiled the stock fluid and jumped straight to the z1 PS cooler with good reline D6 fluid, so I never tried the good fluid/stock cooler combo:tup:

Definitely something I'll need to look into. I hadn't heard of oil starving on these cars as an issue. For this summer I'm sticking with OEM tires but I'll look for better options over the winter while its in storage.

I had "ice mode" happen to me on the street and ya, I nearly messed myself. For the brakes I'm running upgraded pads plus I'm looking at ventilation options for improved cooling. The ABS is a whole different story and as this is still a street driven car, I'll just deal with it.

Well the Z is definitely faster but for tossibility into a corner the properly setup Miata is hard to beat.

I've not driven a 370 on the track but I find this extremely difficult to believe.