Learn me about differentials...

osbornsm · 04-21-2014, 08:24 AM

I went to a HPDE at Gingerman this weekend.
My goal was to get on the throttle sooner / carry more speed thru turns. In that, I was successful. The inside tire now lights up on turns for 20-30 feet.

I can manage the throttle and not do this as well... but isn't this what a differential is supposed to prevent?

Car has 4 track days and 33k miles. Mods in sig.

Update:
- Looking at Quaife rear diff @ Z1... suggestions?

clintfocus · 04-21-2014, 09:23 AM

Cusco type RS, OS Giken, Nismo Pro LSD. These are all quality clutch type limited slip differentials.

osbornsm · 04-21-2014, 09:47 AM

Does this mean the diff is fried already or just on it's way out?

How does one test this?

Chuck33079 · 04-21-2014, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osbornsm

Does this mean the diff is fried already or just on it's way out?

How does one test this?

That depends on if you've got the VLSD from the sport package or the open diff from the base.

DR_ · 04-21-2014, 09:55 AM

Do you have aftermarket swaybars?

osbornsm · 04-21-2014, 10:22 AM

Stock sport package vehicle... so VLSD is included, but not terribly effective.

OEM sway bars as well.

Chuck33079 · 04-21-2014, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osbornsm

Stock sport package vehicle... so VLSD is included, but not terribly effective.

OEM sway bars as well.

A set of aftermarket sways would be money well spent. It's a night-and-day difference from stock. It may even help with your traction issue. As cheap as they are, I'd try that first. Swapping the diff would be great, but it's a slippery slope of things to do "while you're in there". If you're dropping the pumpkin, maybe you want to do gears. Since it's already out, maybe a set of upgraded diff bushings. If you're opening it up, maybe that sexy finned Nismo diff cover. And so on.

Masterbeatty · 04-21-2014, 11:38 AM

I have one autox event with my quaife. I cant compare it to the VLSD, (base model), but i definately did not get any inside tire spin if you ease on the throttle. But if you MASH on the gas then i would power slide and oversteer. But once my race car fund gets alittle bigger i want to do the fined cover and bushings. I am pretty sure the helical type LSD is less suseptable to heat than the Clutch type or VLSD because its gears, but you also have to worry about the bearing surfaces too when it gets hot. For my install by a good dealer i paid $610 for the install but i already had the new bearings and ring gear bolts which is another $120, plus the new axle stub seals and drive seal, crush washers and oil $60. I didnt factor all this in when i was planning all this out but i can do the bushings and finned cover myself. It took them two days with juggling my car and a '09 GTR.

2011 Nismo#91 · 04-21-2014, 11:43 AM

It could be the VLSD, they are only meant for light use. When the Diff Fluid (not the oil) heats up it won't work and will be an open diff until it cools off again. The sport diff will only last about 50K miles of street use before the hydraulic fluid wears out, tracking will wear it out much quicker so I would plan on getting a new, proper one sooner then later being at 33K miles.

GSS138 · 04-21-2014, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

A set of aftermarket sways would be money well spent. It's a night-and-day difference from stock. It may even help with your traction issue. As cheap as they are, I'd try that first. Swapping the diff would be great, but it's a slippery slope of things to do "while you're in there". If you're dropping the pumpkin, maybe you want to do gears. Since it's already out, maybe a set of upgraded diff bushings. If you're opening it up, maybe that sexy finned Nismo diff cover. And so on.

Thank you for discussing my life right now. lol

. I have decided to do the gears, but kitchen counters are coming first. I was able t finally land a nismo diff cover. HUGE thanks to Mike at corner3. I think he was like the first one in the country to get one in about 9 months.

Zauskycop · 04-21-2014, 12:01 PM

In a nutshell...
Viscous LSD work, but are much less effective as the heat up. They can wear out as previously mentioned.

Cusco...many others, are clutch pack type diffs, and are generally the best performing diffs. They are adjustable for performance, And they tend to be lighter (rotating mass...important). Their issue is that they will require maintenance over their lifetimes...being clutches.

Torsen style diffs (quaife) is a gear driven differential, a bit heavier than a clutch pack, but bulletproof. Put it in and never worry about it again. It's issue is that if you ever lose complete traction on one wheel (lift in the air, water, ice etc) it basically turns into an open diff until you get traction again.

I know the next question ; Why did nissan put in a VLSD in our car? Easy answer...want to guess which diff is the cheapest to produce?

Tracy Ramsey
2012 Base/Sport
99 Spec Miata

clintfocus · 04-21-2014, 12:59 PM

Nissan for years loves OE equipping their cars with crap VLSDs lol. Honestly they should've put the VLSD into the base model 370 and a torsen in the Sport package and Nismo, plus made the finned cover factory

cossie1600 · 04-21-2014, 03:51 PM

Very typical, save up for a new diff

osbornsm · 04-21-2014, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

Very typical, save up for a new diff

Presuming my Z is a daily driver... I am looking at a 1.5 way... not fully locking 2 way.

clintfocus · 04-21-2014, 06:46 PM

Get the OS Giken. Smoothest 1.5 out of the box

04-21-2014, 08:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
osbornsm A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: WHAT Posts: 2,551 Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Rep Power: 424	Learn me about differentials... I went to a HPDE at Gingerman this weekend. My goal was to get on the throttle sooner / carry more speed thru turns. In that, I was successful. The inside tire now lights up on turns for 20-30 feet. I can manage the throttle and not do this as well... but isn't this what a differential is supposed to prevent? Car has 4 track days and 33k miles. Mods in sig. Update: - Looking at Quaife rear diff @ Z1... suggestions? __________________ 2018 Camaro SS 1LE (455hp) - 2011 Nissan 370z (333hp) - 2004 VW R32 (240hp) - 2000 Civic Si (160hp) Last edited by osbornsm; 04-22-2014 at 08:51 AM.

04-21-2014, 09:23 AM	#2 (permalink)
clintfocus Track Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: los angeles Age: 39 Posts: 933 Drives: 370z, EK Civic, F150 Rep Power: 15	Cusco type RS, OS Giken, Nismo Pro LSD. These are all quality clutch type limited slip differentials. Rusty likes this.

04-21-2014, 09:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
osbornsm A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: WHAT Posts: 2,551 Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Rep Power: 424	Does this mean the diff is fried already or just on it's way out? How does one test this? __________________ 2018 Camaro SS 1LE (455hp) - 2011 Nissan 370z (333hp) - 2004 VW R32 (240hp) - 2000 Civic Si (160hp)

04-21-2014, 10:22 AM	#6 (permalink)
osbornsm A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: WHAT Posts: 2,551 Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Rep Power: 424	Stock sport package vehicle... so VLSD is included, but not terribly effective. OEM sway bars as well. __________________ 2018 Camaro SS 1LE (455hp) - 2011 Nissan 370z (333hp) - 2004 VW R32 (240hp) - 2000 Civic Si (160hp)

04-21-2014, 11:38 AM	#8 (permalink)
Masterbeatty A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Whales Vagina Posts: 4,586 Drives: the speed limit... Rep Power: 122867	I have one autox event with my quaife. I cant compare it to the VLSD, (base model), but i definately did not get any inside tire spin if you ease on the throttle. But if you MASH on the gas then i would power slide and oversteer. But once my race car fund gets alittle bigger i want to do the fined cover and bushings. I am pretty sure the helical type LSD is less suseptable to heat than the Clutch type or VLSD because its gears, but you also have to worry about the bearing surfaces too when it gets hot. For my install by a good dealer i paid $610 for the install but i already had the new bearings and ring gear bolts which is another $120, plus the new axle stub seals and drive seal, crush washers and oil $60. I didnt factor all this in when i was planning all this out but i can do the bushings and finned cover myself. It took them two days with juggling my car and a '09 GTR. __________________ 2011 MB 6MT Masterbeatty journal

04-21-2014, 09:55 AM	#5 (permalink)
DR_ Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 981 Drives: Touring/Sport M6 PG Rep Power: 17	Do you have aftermarket swaybars?

04-21-2014, 11:43 AM	#9 (permalink)
2011 Nismo#91 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 2,401 Drives: slowly Rep Power: 40569	It could be the VLSD, they are only meant for light use. When the Diff Fluid (not the oil) heats up it won't work and will be an open diff until it cools off again. The sport diff will only last about 50K miles of street use before the hydraulic fluid wears out, tracking will wear it out much quicker so I would plan on getting a new, proper one sooner then later being at 33K miles.

04-21-2014, 12:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
Zauskycop Base Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Hinckley IL Posts: 228 Drives: 2012 370Z, '16 Miata Rep Power: 14	In a nutshell... Viscous LSD work, but are much less effective as the heat up. They can wear out as previously mentioned. Cusco...many others, are clutch pack type diffs, and are generally the best performing diffs. They are adjustable for performance, And they tend to be lighter (rotating mass...important). Their issue is that they will require maintenance over their lifetimes...being clutches. Torsen style diffs (quaife) is a gear driven differential, a bit heavier than a clutch pack, but bulletproof. Put it in and never worry about it again. It's issue is that if you ever lose complete traction on one wheel (lift in the air, water, ice etc) it basically turns into an open diff until you get traction again. I know the next question ; Why did nissan put in a VLSD in our car? Easy answer...want to guess which diff is the cheapest to produce? Tracy Ramsey 2012 Base/Sport 99 Spec Miata Wonka2581 likes this. Last edited by Zauskycop; 04-21-2014 at 05:52 PM.

04-21-2014, 12:59 PM	#12 (permalink)
clintfocus Track Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: los angeles Age: 39 Posts: 933 Drives: 370z, EK Civic, F150 Rep Power: 15	Nissan for years loves OE equipping their cars with crap VLSDs lol. Honestly they should've put the VLSD into the base model 370 and a torsen in the Sport package and Nismo, plus made the finned cover factory Last edited by clintfocus; 04-21-2014 at 04:21 PM.

04-21-2014, 03:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	Very typical, save up for a new diff

04-21-2014, 06:46 PM	#15 (permalink)
clintfocus Track Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: los angeles Age: 39 Posts: 933 Drives: 370z, EK Civic, F150 Rep Power: 15	Get the OS Giken. Smoothest 1.5 out of the box

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