CJM Fuel Starvation Control Product, Round 2

NeverBoneStck

Oil pan

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Rusty

I got the AAM oil pan spacer and a 34row Z1 oil cooler. That's about 8 qts of oil. Temps on the track don't worry me. What does is the lack of baffling in the stock pan.

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phunk

The cooling qualities of extra capacity come down to stability.

The extra oil will certainly not change baseline operating temps of the oil, of course. What it does is take longer to heat up, and longer to cool down. For momentary spirited runs, such as high power street applications, this will equate to more stable temps. On the track, it will take a few moments longer to heat up that extra oil... but in moments of high airflow to your core, it will also take longer to shed that heat.

Adding oil capacity by only enlarging the floor plan of the oil pan is, technically, one of the worst ways to add capacity if you are trying to stay away from oil starvation. It is JUST like with fuel systems, and how a surge can is able to prevent starvation by having a smaller floor plan. If you want to control a fluids lateral position, the most logical way to do so, when applicable, is to tighten up how much room it has to travel. Adding capacity through DEPTH is better because it actually IMPROVES fluid control by giving the fluid no extra room to escape the pickup point, but also having more depth (higher walls) making it harder for the fluid to escape, AND the extra capacity acts to deepen your reserve around the pickup. With the large wing oil pans, your extra oil is way over there, not where you want it. Meaning this added capacity ONLY serves as added capacity, and comes at sacrifice of your fluid control. During moments where the oil is having a difficult time making it back to the sump, you dont want whatever oil IS in the sump to be hiding in some wing/pocket thats 10 inches away from the pickup... you want whatever you have as close as possible.

There is, no doubt, that an oil pan spacer is a better way to increase oil capacity than widening the pan. The arguments come into play when you start considering things like ground clearance and packaging. In theory, if you spaced your lower pan and pickup an entire foot deeper, you will find that you would never need a baffle at all. The theory behind a dry sump is basically the same as this example, its just that the sump is mounted remotely, because nobody has 12" of space under their crankshaft.

This posts can serve of why I have never been a fan of the extended oil pans... APS started this with the VQ's. I like the Greddy pans personally. For the VHR they only have the wings going out maybe 1.5". They squared off the bottom corners which adds more, and they just barely lowered it. If I had to guess I would say maybe .5-.75 quart extra capacity? If I made a pan, it would probably be a sheet metal / billet version of the greddy where the turbo returns are optional.

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phunk

Some parts came in today for the RRPs. Got some tracking numbers going out tonight, and some more tracking numbers by Monday.

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phunk

Created a fuel system product thread here: CJM 370z Fuel System Products: A Brief Overview.

This thread will eventually have all the answers for those looking to push their RRPs with boosted setups.

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GSS138

Hey Phunk, what do you think about the idea of a passive solution to the 2012+ oil cooler system? basically tapping the line, running it inside the pan, and adding some plates/heat sinks and increasing the volume of coolant and heat transfer surface area inside the pan? Granted, I have no idea what happens when a coolant line explodes inside an oil pan, but (yes nerd alert) I have built liquid cooled computers that operate on this same idea. I mean in the CPU world we run liquid right next to the electric to cool it. Granted, a good cpu costs 500 bucks and a new engine costs 25K, but the idea is that the compression line should never break.

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martin82

forget it, capped the oil cooler system, overheats the radiator anyways. That's my plane and run dual 34 row or 1 34 row and a 2nd smaller cooler!

phunk

Water/Coolant is a great cooling media, however, hot water is not as good as cold water!

The engine coolant is rather hot to be trying to do the oil any favors. The most effective possible coolant/oil exchanger, could in theory keep the oil temps down to coolant temp. But I am not sure what it would take to get such an effective system since it was a sort of alternative method that doesnt seem to be as widely practiced.

The complaint many people will have is that it simply transfers the burden to the radiator. I get that, and that makes sense. On the other hand, if it only means having to upgrade the radiator, and not add an oil cooler... that seems like it could be a positive product. However, without a lot of testing and examples, I am not sure anyone would put any faith in it. It might be out of my knowledge and experience to invest in.

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phunk

2 RRP shipped tonight. If you didnt get a tracking number from me by PM and you are fully paid, than yours is leaving with Mondays outgoing batch. The install kit supplies are trickling in! I dont normally stock some of those supplies and I neglected to start getting them on the way as early as I should have.

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SPOHN

Stop it Phunk. Just stop it. Don't ruin your rep with constant updates. That IS NOT normal on this site.

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synolimit

**** for $450 a diff cooler like I built is more than enough...I hope. I can post my results if you missed it.

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13 370z-

djtodd

I have an idea. Why don't you start offering a SC kit? I hear the parts list and install instructions can be found and copied easily...

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roplusbee

Charles:

Slightly off-topic, but did you work out the staged fuel system upgrades? As much as I want the RRP, I feel I need to get into the stage 2 fuel system that you have been working on (AND I am betting that it is on your car already).

I am trying hard to find ways to improve my Greddy setup and NOT jump ship to go the Fast Intentions kit (since that is what I wanted from the beginning). Make no mistake, Fast Intentions is doing it right on a multitude of fronts and I am not making a derogatory statement in anyway. If I would have waited another 18 months, I would have had one of the first kits (but that is neither here nor there). I believe that smoothing out my fuel system operation and performance will be the best effort while making minor, but essential upgrades to a pretty good system. That and I need to find a radiator that won't leak at the upper hose neck within a year (this last one only lasted six months before it would eat a whole bottle of coolant).

EDIT:

Nevermind. I just read your post about the fuel system upgrades................

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2007 350Z NISMO #0618: Zerolift | UPREV | F.I. | Greddy | Competition Clutch | Injector Dynamics | Aeromotive | Pioneer | JL

SurfDog

I takes me forever to get to a working temperature (160) here in cold Colorado. 10 minutes of easy driving at 2500 rpm or so and I'm still pegged cold. (less than 140). I use a Sandwich plate (stillen kit). I'm not sure if it closes ALL the way.

p.s. Sorry I know this is waaay off topic.

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09 6spd Berk CBE, JWT cams, ZSpeed CSC, Stillen (25 row oil, brake cooling, sways, gen3 CAI), Passport (9500ci), Quaife LSD, Z1 400 hp kit, ss lines, pads, rotors, clutch etc, Phunk's pan and fuel starve fix

2011 Nismo#91

Yeah, I have learned that the sandwich plats never completely close. Has something to do with not wanting freezing cold oil to mix with hot operating temp oil when it would eventually open.

Only effective solution is the block airflow through the oil cooler. Be it an aluminum plate or just some simple tape.