Originally Posted by martin82 Hey Ryan, I actually had this happen at buttonwillow, I had dead tires and dead pads about 3mm left on front pads, the abs or something
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01-28-2013, 11:55 PM | #16 (permalink) | |
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did it boost the braking pressure to that one side?
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01-29-2013, 12:10 AM | #17 (permalink) | |
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01-29-2013, 05:57 AM | #19 (permalink) |
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I think most of us who have pushed these cars hard on track have experienced this issue. It's scary as hell. Especially those of us who threshold brake and trail brake.
Honestly I haven't experienced ice mode since putting large vacuum reservoir on stock braking system. I do think part of issue is vacuum related. As far as bias when you disconnect abs. While yes bias goes to rear you can tune suspensions and brakes to work without car spinning. And it does take some modification of braking style. I will be interested in what you do. I know race car up in Nor cal switched to expensive motorsports abs system. What are you thinking? I have heard that there might be ability to tune this out of stock system but no one is willing to take liability of doing this on stock system. I think it's absolutely criminal that Nissan doesn't warn people about likelihood of this ice mode occurring in motorsports and prohibit track driving of these cars as part of warning to less experienced drivers. You and I and other experienced drivers have managed not to wad up car when this ice mode happens but how about less experienced driver who target fixates and doesn't know how to slow car down without brakes? I'm still convinced the car that magazine testers put into the wall when car was released experienced ice mode and not brake fade. I'm also curious have you checked rear calipers and are they ok? No leaks etc. I had a stock caliper go bad which I think was contributing to ice mode issue as well.
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Grant Last edited by Shamu; 01-29-2013 at 06:12 AM. |
01-29-2013, 08:00 AM | #20 (permalink) |
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What you guys experience is absolute nothing new...even the Porsche 997 street cars experienced this in Conti series...as well as mustangs...camaros and even the BMWs so it isn't just a Nissan thing.
Almost all the cars is ST run the Tevus system (allowed to or not) and every car in GS is now allowed a Bosch Motorsports or Tevis abs system. When ran the ST 128 BMW after 2 events on the OEM stock pump ...it was toast and only got worse. Basically I think ice mode burns up the pump and once you start having "ice mode" it will just keep getting worse or more often. The man to talk to is Kurt Jung..is an electronic guru espc. on ABS systems. He is also the main dealer Motorsports for the Tevus system. The Bosch system is pretty advanced 10 preprogrammed maps and 2 specific maps based on inputs for specific car measurements....front and rear track, vehicle weight, wheelbase, and front and rear tire circ. Both systems are expensive ...but so is crash damage. |
01-29-2013, 08:27 AM | #21 (permalink) | |
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And no it's not new it's been issue since our car was released without much done to fix issue other than to put $10k race abs system on car or turn off abs. Most of cars running grand am run expensive systems due to tuning available. If you are in series to win using stock abs isn't going to cut it typically.
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Grant Last edited by Shamu; 01-29-2013 at 09:11 AM. |
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01-29-2013, 08:30 AM | #22 (permalink) | |
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I had my calipers re-built completely and have checked them periodically and still have the issue so I don't think that's the problem. I think what Downshift said about the pump burning up might be the key to why mine just keeps getting worse.
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01-29-2013, 08:35 AM | #23 (permalink) | |
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I'm sure a burned out pump in some cars contributes to malfunctioning abs but I'm not sure that's our issue. Also it's tough to compare a time trial car that takes limited stints on track to professionally driven endurance race cars on race slicks as well. That's a whole different world of stress on braking systems. Hell even racing systems fry in those environments. Just wonder if spec 350z guys are running off tracks all the time like few stock abs system 370z track cars are. I know 350z had mild ice brake issue so does GTr but nothing like 370z.
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Grant Last edited by Shamu; 01-29-2013 at 09:17 AM. |
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01-29-2013, 10:13 AM | #24 (permalink) |
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Didn't say that was THE issue...I was saying that I belive..continued "ice mode" will burn up the pump...for sure a burnt up pump or failing pump will lead to ice mode more frequently
Which is exactly what I think is the main issue /cause stated waaaaaaay back when. The loss of vacuum or loss of proper built up supply to properly operate modern ABS systems....especially with complex intake / camshaft timing systems. Again...not saying this is it...just my two cents. |
01-29-2013, 12:11 PM | #26 (permalink) |
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I second this ^ would like more info ok Shamus fix
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01-29-2013, 12:27 PM | #27 (permalink) |
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ABS block/pump
Vacuum assist brakes need vacuum operate the ABS... If there is not an ample amount of vacuum to supply the system to operate... You will not be able to compress the pistons of the brake calipers.. Giving the driver a super hard pedal. To me... That's why I don't recommend super double throw down brake pads for tracking. Hugher clamping force will trigger ABS to cycle /use more vacuum...big slow hard hits in the pedal. Then there isn't enough time to build up the supply for the next corner... and it starts all over again. The OEM ABS computer is not programmed for high sampling rates and cannot keep up with the short supply. A Motorsport ABS pump and computer has much faster sampling and cyles...and the pules felt in the pedal are much softer shorter and faster.... More efficient use of the vacuum supply. The use of a vacuum accumulator or reservoir can help because it allows vacuum to build up giving the ABS a larger supply to feed from. That's my version. |
01-29-2013, 12:34 PM | #28 (permalink) |
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what size wheels and tires are you using on your z? i'm new to the z world and wanna start doing some track days and also wanna get some nice looking wheel that i can use both on street and track.
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01-29-2013, 12:44 PM | #29 (permalink) | |
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18 x 10" rear with 285/35/18 There are a lot of great double duty street/track tires out there right now, most are around the 140-220 UTQG (treadwear) rating. The Hankook R-S3 is my personal favorite as its the grippiest on the track and also quite affordable in comparison to other tires in its class.
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01-29-2013, 01:13 PM | #30 (permalink) | |
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