Harness Bar vs 4 pt cage vs full cage

ENT-Z · 12-23-2012, 10:07 PM

As I continue to gain some skill during HPDE sessions, I am getting more concerned about safety since the speeds are starting to pick up considerably. I would like to add a harness system so I can use a HANS device. I know I can accomplish this with a harness bar such as the Robispec option but am wondering if there really is a big advantage of installing a 4 pt cage. I know a handful of you have them and would appreciate your input. I would think what would you would really want is door bars which of course involve a full cage. What does the 4 pt cage get you - I don't see it being that protective in a collision with a tire wall/concrete wall. Obviously it would be useful in the rare chance of a rollover. Please enlighten me!

Shamu · 12-23-2012, 10:37 PM

I'd stick with harness bar or rear roll bar and harness if your car will be driven on the street. Cages are very dangerous for street driving when you are not using harnesses and helmet

DR_ · 12-23-2012, 11:03 PM

You don't use HANS on cars with air bags. If you want to use a harness move the child latch mount over to the drivers side and mount your harness sholder straps to that.

Dustin@Z1 · 12-24-2012, 09:47 AM

Shamu is DEAD ON about this. Cages are designed with the intent that you will be in full track attire...helmet, gloves, netting and so forth.

Your head bounces around like a pinball in a collision in most cases. OE engineers take this into account and design the interior accordingly. Adding a full cage adds tubing in proximity of your head that you could potentially strike in an accident. If you have a helmet on, this impact is not as bad. Without a helmet.....you can imagine.

+1 vote for either a harness bar or rear roll bar (Autopower, etc.).

Mike · 12-24-2012, 10:03 AM

Other than the harness bar the BGTV8 had made down in Australia, that mounted to the hard seatbelt shoulder mounting points, I'm not convinced any other harness bars are safe enough, but thats just my opinion. If I was keeping the interior and street driving, I would probably go with the Autopower weld in, which is designed for an interior, or have a 4 point custom made.

sixpax · 12-24-2012, 10:25 AM

What about that GT Spec 4 Point bolt in bar ... does anyone have any thoughts on if it is suitable for attaching harnesses ?

GT Spec 4 Point

Mike · 12-24-2012, 10:30 AM

looks to me that that is more for chassis stiffness

sig11 · 12-24-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Other than the harness bar the BGTV8 had made down in Australia, that mounted to the hard seatbelt shoulder mounting points, I'm not convinced any other harness bars are safe enough, but thats just my opinion.

I love my BGTV8 harness bar. Works great and the belt angle is right within the specs for my Schroth harness.

cdoxp800 · 12-24-2012, 01:43 PM

What about this?

Robispec Chassis/Harness Bar

ENT-Z · 12-24-2012, 03:02 PM

I get that a full cage can only be used in a track only car.

I'm still not certain if a 4pt cage offers any safety advantage over a good harness bar and harness in a non-rollover collision.

Also, I was not aware you cannot use a HANS with an airbag equipped car. Why is that?

Thanks for the education guys!

SPOHN · 12-24-2012, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENT-Z

I'm still not certain if a 4pt cage offers any safety advantage over a good harness bar and harness in a non-rollover collision.

I understand you said non-rollover but most incidents are side impacts. The 4point will help there also due to the main loop bar that surrounds midldle section of the car all the way to the floor. But also is you go into a spin there's a high chance it could roll.

ENT-Z · 12-24-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

I understand you said non-rollover but most incidents are side impacts. The 4point will help there also due to the main loop bar that surrounds midldle section of the car all the way to the floor. But also is you go into a spin there's a high chance it could roll.

Good points.

Now anyone want to tackle the no HANS if you have an airbag comment from above?

sig11 · 12-24-2012, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENT-Z

Good points.

Now anyone want to tackle the no HANS if you have an airbag comment from above?

I'm not sure why it matters. I wore a HANS all summer and never disabled my airbags.

ENT-Z · 12-24-2012, 10:37 PM

After a few hours of additional research I think there are only 2 good choices:

Best - 4 pt roll cage (not harness bar), fixed back racing seat (halo seat best), 5/6 pt harness, HANS device

2nd Best - Stock seat, 3 pt belts, full face helmet with visor down

Mixing and matching (i.e. harness setup without HANS) may actually be less safe.

For what it's worth, I still couldn't find any real reason why you need to disable airbag with a HANS. If you are using a harness system and a HANS and aren't 5'0" tall with your face 3 inches from the wheel, the stock airbag shouldn't even contact your head when deployed. However, it will probably beat your arms up!

sig11 · 12-25-2012, 11:02 AM

I expect I would get some gas burns from my airbags but who doesn't?

12-23-2012, 10:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
ENT-Z Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 460 Drives: 09 MB 6MT 370Z Rep Power: 16	Harness Bar vs 4 pt cage vs full cage As I continue to gain some skill during HPDE sessions, I am getting more concerned about safety since the speeds are starting to pick up considerably. I would like to add a harness system so I can use a HANS device. I know I can accomplish this with a harness bar such as the Robispec option but am wondering if there really is a big advantage of installing a 4 pt cage. I know a handful of you have them and would appreciate your input. I would think what would you would really want is door bars which of course involve a full cage. What does the 4 pt cage get you - I don't see it being that protective in a collision with a tire wall/concrete wall. Obviously it would be useful in the rare chance of a rollover. Please enlighten me!

12-23-2012, 10:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Shamu A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 1,059 Drives: 370Z Racecar Rep Power: 19	I'd stick with harness bar or rear roll bar and harness if your car will be driven on the street. Cages are very dangerous for street driving when you are not using harnesses and helmet Dustin@Z1 likes this. __________________ Grant

12-24-2012, 10:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2186	Other than the harness bar the BGTV8 had made down in Australia, that mounted to the hard seatbelt shoulder mounting points, I'm not convinced any other harness bars are safe enough, but thats just my opinion. If I was keeping the interior and street driving, I would probably go with the Autopower weld in, which is designed for an interior, or have a 4 point custom made. sig11 likes this. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

12-24-2012, 10:30 AM	#7 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2186	looks to me that that is more for chassis stiffness sixpax likes this. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

12-24-2012, 01:43 PM	#9 (permalink)
cdoxp800 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: FL Posts: 1,337 Drives: 2011 Nismo Rep Power: 19	What about this? Robispec Chassis/Harness Bar __________________ 2011 Brilliant Silver NISMO 370z. #: 0046. PPE LTH \| MillSpec Cats \| F.I Exhaust \| Akuma Intakes \| Rotora 6/4 Brakes

12-23-2012, 11:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
DR_ Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 981 Drives: Touring/Sport M6 PG Rep Power: 17	You don't use HANS on cars with air bags. If you want to use a harness move the child latch mount over to the drivers side and mount your harness sholder straps to that.

12-24-2012, 09:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
Dustin@Z1 The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NLA Posts: 1,313 Drives: NLA Rep Power: 18	Shamu is DEAD ON about this. Cages are designed with the intent that you will be in full track attire...helmet, gloves, netting and so forth. Your head bounces around like a pinball in a collision in most cases. OE engineers take this into account and design the interior accordingly. Adding a full cage adds tubing in proximity of your head that you could potentially strike in an accident. If you have a helmet on, this impact is not as bad. Without a helmet.....you can imagine. +1 vote for either a harness bar or rear roll bar (Autopower, etc.).

12-24-2012, 03:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
ENT-Z Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 460 Drives: 09 MB 6MT 370Z Rep Power: 16	I get that a full cage can only be used in a track only car. I'm still not certain if a 4pt cage offers any safety advantage over a good harness bar and harness in a non-rollover collision. Also, I was not aware you cannot use a HANS with an airbag equipped car. Why is that? Thanks for the education guys!

12-24-2012, 10:37 PM	#14 (permalink)
ENT-Z Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 460 Drives: 09 MB 6MT 370Z Rep Power: 16	After a few hours of additional research I think there are only 2 good choices: Best - 4 pt roll cage (not harness bar), fixed back racing seat (halo seat best), 5/6 pt harness, HANS device 2nd Best - Stock seat, 3 pt belts, full face helmet with visor down Mixing and matching (i.e. harness setup without HANS) may actually be less safe. For what it's worth, I still couldn't find any real reason why you need to disable airbag with a HANS. If you are using a harness system and a HANS and aren't 5'0" tall with your face 3 inches from the wheel, the stock airbag shouldn't even contact your head when deployed. However, it will probably beat your arms up! SPOHN and zisfor_nizmo like this.

12-25-2012, 11:02 AM	#15 (permalink)
sig11 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 1,294 Drives: 09 370Z Red Sport-MT Rep Power: 18	I expect I would get some gas burns from my airbags but who doesn't?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Harness Bar / Roll Cage / Brace Bar Updates!	Mozen	Exterior & Interior	18	01-16-2017 02:19 PM
Roll Cage anyone??	Reaper42	Exterior & Interior	23	11-02-2015 02:25 PM
Forged Performance: Custom Race FP Spec Roll Cage	ChadB@Forged	Track / Autocross / Drifting / Dragstrip	2	11-28-2012 06:40 PM
Bolt on Roll Bar/Cage	Calvin	Exterior & Interior	8	08-27-2012 05:00 PM