Lets Talk Rotors: Cryo-treating

clintfocus · 07-04-2013, 01:58 AM

im on Centric Cryo blanks now and they're holding up great

Rusty · 07-04-2013, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

Reviving an old thread. I was researching on rotors and I found some interesting read on cryo treatment

cryogenic rotors - Page 2 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

cryo-treated rotors = snake oil! - NASIOC

Cryogenic Rotors: Good or Snake Oil? - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

I was also reading on RB rotors, they heat treated their rotors but do not use cryo treatment.

Seems like results vary. Hope we have some chemists/engineer here that can chime in.

Interesting reading. People with degrees calling it snake oil. I've had ring and pinions done years ago. Was to help stop breakage of the teeth. Still broke them tho.

cv129 · 07-04-2013, 02:38 AM

The one that hit me the most was the first link, where the guy tested it side by side with normal rotors.

I don't have enough knowledge to dispute the science, just wanna shine some light into the bipolar results people are reporting.

For those that run cryo treated rotors, track/abuse them consistently, and yielding noticeably positive results, which vendor did you get them from?

gomer_110 · 07-04-2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

Reviving an old thread. I was researching on rotors and I found some interesting read on cryo treatment

cryogenic rotors - Page 2 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

cryo-treated rotors = snake oil! - NASIOC

Cryogenic Rotors: Good or Snake Oil? - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

I was also reading on RB rotors, they heat treated their rotors but do not use cryo treatment.

Seems like results vary. Hope we have some chemists/engineer here that can chime in.

First, saying they "heat treat" is too generic to mean anything. There's so many heat treating processes, without knowing which one specifically is used is worthless.

Secondly, when done right, cryo-treating absolutely can be useful. Cryo-treating is used in more places that brake rotors. Numerous companies that are doing heat-treating (typically carburizing) have deep-freezers for cryo-treating.

Unfortunately, while I might design heat treat furnaces, I'm no metallurgist so I can't tell you what the chemistry behind cryo-treating is.

cv129 · 07-04-2013, 11:26 AM

^ thanks for the input. Below link is what that particular sentence refers to. Don't know if this answers your question at all but here it is.

RX7: RB Rotor Material - RacingBrake Forums

My post here is meant to induce posts/information by showing results contra to the general consensus. Educational purpose, not picking any side.

gomer_110 · 07-04-2013, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

^ thanks for the input. Below link is what that particular sentence refers to. Don't know if this answers your question at all but here it is.

RX7: RB Rotor Material - RacingBrake Forums

My post here is meant to induce posts/information by showing results contra to the general consensus. Educational purpose, not picking any side.

From reading that link it sounds like the "heat treating" that's being done is simply a process called normalizing. Only real purpose of the normalizing is to relieve stesses in the metal (helps with distortion).

Now that I'm curious about this, I'll have to talk to some of the process/metallurgist guys at work on Monday.

cossie1600 · 07-04-2013, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

The one that hit me the most was the first link, where the guy tested it side by side with normal rotors.

I don't have enough knowledge to dispute the science, just wanna shine some light into the bipolar results people are reporting.

For those that run cryo treated rotors, track/abuse them consistently, and yielding noticeably positive results, which vendor did you get them from?

Rotor is a hunk of metal, just get a reputable brand and you will be fine. My old Corvette came with cross-drilled rotor. When I used to track them, little cracks would develop after EACH event. With a set of cheap NAPA rotors cryo treated, cracking didn't occur until a few events later. The NAPA rotors were standard off the shelf ones. When I replace the rotors on my Z, I am just going to go to Advanced Autoparts for some $75 rotors.

cv129 · 07-04-2013, 04:55 PM

^thanks. Where did you get yours cryo treated (300below, frozenrotors, etc)?

I am aware of the cheap yet solid alternative of treating some parts more like disposable items: get decent ones at pedestrian price, use them but switch them out more frequently. This will surely be in my repertoire when I start to track it.

However, I just wanna learn more about the topic. Seems like cryo treatment must be done right (duh..) to achieve the right results, so one thing I wanted to establish is vendors that had provided cryo treated rotors with the expected positive results.

cossie1600 · 07-04-2013, 05:27 PM

This was done when cryo treating became really popular. I remember it was a place that was 50 miles from my house. They did engine parts and medical items. They ordered the rotor from NAPA for me, got it done and had it shipped to the house. Honestly, they could have lied to me and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference when I first saw the rotors. Yet when I put it through the first track day, I was immediately sold as I did not see a single crack after my first track event

MightyBobo · 07-04-2013, 11:39 PM

Nice to finally hear from someone who's done it personally...

gomer_110 · 07-08-2013, 10:13 PM

Had a chance to talk to one of the metallurgist guys at work today. Apparently even in the metallurgist community is split over cryo treating. In practice it will reduce the internal stresses and therefore reduce/eliminate the formation of microcracks under heat cycling. However according to the guy I work with there is no scientific proof of the effects of cryo treating to the microstructure of the metal.

In other words, it works but no one can prove 100% why.

Super Werty · 08-14-2013, 06:45 PM

reviving this thread. When I was racing the 1/4 mile in my Truck....4400 lbs with me in it, I kept warping the stock rotors and thus ruining the pads as well. hitting the brakes at 110 mph was scary lol

I upgraded to powerslot cryo slotted rotors on the front...rear was drum. Never warped them again and made probably 35 1/4 mile stops on them. Braking definitely improved.

Looking to get them on the Z when that time comes

cv129 · 08-15-2013, 12:39 AM

Since this was revived....a thread that i came across, don't mind the title, click link and skip to post #20, post by DBA Steve

DBA 4000 Rotor cracks/gerissen - Corvette Forum

Not cryo treating but good read for a beginner like myself. Shine some light into how to abuse the rotors correctly.

cossie1600 · 08-15-2013, 01:26 AM

The Corvette has 10 to 20mph more than our car on the straights, make sense htey use the brake more....

07-04-2013, 11:26 AM	#20 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,222 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 163995	^ thanks for the input. Below link is what that particular sentence refers to. Don't know if this answers your question at all but here it is. RX7: RB Rotor Material - RacingBrake Forums My post here is meant to induce posts/information by showing results contra to the general consensus. Educational purpose, not picking any side. Last edited by cv129; 07-04-2013 at 11:39 AM.

07-04-2013, 11:39 PM	#25 (permalink)
MightyBobo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 8,465 Drives: No cars; only bikes Rep Power: 52	Nice to finally hear from someone who's done it personally... __________________ I don't own a car anymore.

07-08-2013, 10:13 PM	#26 (permalink)
gomer_110 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Perrysburg, OH Posts: 17,992 Drives: '11 Nismo #528 GM Rep Power: 36941	Had a chance to talk to one of the metallurgist guys at work today. Apparently even in the metallurgist community is split over cryo treating. In practice it will reduce the internal stresses and therefore reduce/eliminate the formation of microcracks under heat cycling. However according to the guy I work with there is no scientific proof of the effects of cryo treating to the microstructure of the metal. In other words, it works but no one can prove 100% why. cv129 likes this. __________________ '11 370Z Nismo #528 Fast Intentions \| Stillen \| Motordyne \| Uprev \| CSF \| Zspeed \| Z1 Motorsports \| AST \| Swift \| SPC \| SPL \| Whiteline \| Hotchkis \| Bride \| Schroth \| Robispec \| Cusco \| Nismo \| Volk \| Forgestar \| Hoosier \| RJM '17 Titan Bone Stock

08-15-2013, 12:39 AM	#28 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,222 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 163995	Since this was revived....a thread that i came across, don't mind the title, click link and skip to post #20, post by DBA Steve DBA 4000 Rotor cracks/gerissen - Corvette Forum Not cryo treating but good read for a beginner like myself. Shine some light into how to abuse the rotors correctly. Last edited by cv129; 08-15-2013 at 12:43 AM.

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07-04-2013, 01:58 AM	#16 (permalink)
clintfocus Track Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: los angeles Age: 38 Posts: 933 Drives: 370z, EK Civic, F150 Rep Power: 15	im on Centric Cryo blanks now and they're holding up great

07-04-2013, 02:38 AM	#18 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,222 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 163995	The one that hit me the most was the first link, where the guy tested it side by side with normal rotors. I don't have enough knowledge to dispute the science, just wanna shine some light into the bipolar results people are reporting. For those that run cryo treated rotors, track/abuse them consistently, and yielding noticeably positive results, which vendor did you get them from?

07-04-2013, 04:55 PM	#23 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,222 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 163995	^thanks. Where did you get yours cryo treated (300below, frozenrotors, etc)? I am aware of the cheap yet solid alternative of treating some parts more like disposable items: get decent ones at pedestrian price, use them but switch them out more frequently. This will surely be in my repertoire when I start to track it. However, I just wanna learn more about the topic. Seems like cryo treatment must be done right (duh..) to achieve the right results, so one thing I wanted to establish is vendors that had provided cryo treated rotors with the expected positive results.

07-04-2013, 05:27 PM	#24 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	This was done when cryo treating became really popular. I remember it was a place that was 50 miles from my house. They did engine parts and medical items. They ordered the rotor from NAPA for me, got it done and had it shipped to the house. Honestly, they could have lied to me and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference when I first saw the rotors. Yet when I put it through the first track day, I was immediately sold as I did not see a single crack after my first track event

08-14-2013, 06:45 PM	#27 (permalink)
Super Werty Track Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: AZ Posts: 668 Drives: '13 Sport Rep Power: 13	reviving this thread. When I was racing the 1/4 mile in my Truck....4400 lbs with me in it, I kept warping the stock rotors and thus ruining the pads as well. hitting the brakes at 110 mph was scary lol I upgraded to powerslot cryo slotted rotors on the front...rear was drum. Never warped them again and made probably 35 1/4 mile stops on them. Braking definitely improved. Looking to get them on the Z when that time comes

08-15-2013, 01:26 AM	#29 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	The Corvette has 10 to 20mph more than our car on the straights, make sense htey use the brake more....