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-   -   Fuel Starvation Control Product (http://www.the370z.com/track-autocross-drifting-dragstrip/54724-fuel-starvation-control-product.html)

phunk 01-13-2013 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs (Post 2106333)
Sorry not trying to thread jack, but I had a little issue and figured you guys could help.

Question is about fuel starvation. What is the consequence (or car behavior) from the fuel starve? I will give some detail on what I experienced a few days ago.

I was accelerating up an on ramp to the interstate, was in 4th gear rolling onto the throttle and coming out of it planted. About 50 feet into the straight at 5k rpms it reacted like I hit rev limiter. Vitals looked great so after a mile or so I done a WOT in 4th again and it did not happen.

Later I took another right turn but much shorter maybe a 80 degree 100-125 FT turn. Same thing as I came into the straight around 5k rpms it acted like I hit the rev limiter. I played around all the way home and it did not do it again. Only after these right turns.

That said, I know a long sweeping right turn causes issues. What are the issues exactly (fuel cut car reaction)? Does it hit you while in the corner? Or in my instance's I was in and out of the corner quickly so the lag hit me as I was coming into the straight?

I had a couple dots over a quarter of a tank of fuel remaining, also the car is TT.
Thanks for any input I will rep when it recharges I ran out for the day!

The fuel level you were at was well into the fuel starvation risk area. Basically, once the gauge no longer reads topped off, you are at risk, and the risk increases the lower you go.

you often will not realize that you are in the middle of fuel starvation while in the right hand turn, and then you will encounter it as soon as you go to give it gas. it feels as if the gas peddle is not connected to anything because the trans is in gear, the engine is spinning, but it is not responding to giving it gas. at this point, the engine is only spinning because you are in gear, if you took it out of gear, the engine will die unless the fuel pump happens to grab some fuel as youre letting off.

when you make the hard or long right, the fuel sloshes over to the drivers side of the tank. If the turn was aggressive enough, you can get nearly all the fuel to go over there. so even though you have straightened out after the turn... most the fuel is over on the other side of the tank, and when you go to give it gas there is such a little amount that the pump cannot meet the engines needs.

it takes the system time to recover the fuel from over there. there is a little siphon that is powered by a venturi effect in the fuel leaving the fuel pressure regulator. it is constantly, and slowly, transferring fuel from the driver side to the passenger side where the pump resides. since it is required that the fuel pressure regulator be allowing fuel to bypass, if you are even low on fuel pressure, the siphon will die. this means you can actually transfer all the fuel to the other side, have the engine die, and there will be nothing you can do (short of adding more fuel into the tank) to get the fuel back to the passenger side. the car can actually be stuck on the side of the road until you bring it gas.

phunk 01-13-2013 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamu (Post 2109361)
It will be cool once this solution has been thoroughly tested by track drivers who have had fuel starve issues and to see how low people can go without an issue.

Does this product carry a warranty? And curious if you install this will it void manufactures warranty if it were to impact fuel air ratio and cause engine failure? That's probably important for people with cars still under warranty to know.

as stated before me, it has been tested to a completely empty fuel tank on the road course.

As for a warranty? Well, I have never stated one.. but sure I will gladly warranty it. There is actually no need to warranty it since it is almost entirely a solid state device that could never possibly wear out, except for the Walbro fuel pump that resides within it. This pump I would warranty within reason, as fuel pumps wear out and fail eventually no matter what. If someone tells me 2 weeks later it died, ya I will replace that.

It will not impact fuel/air ratios... well, except when youre making a hard right turn, you will no longer lean out the engine to the point that it cannot stay running. The factory fuel pressure regulator is still utilized, and with no change in fuel pressure, there is no change in A/F.

phunk 01-13-2013 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O&G (Post 2109680)
how does a surge tank / extra pump affect A/F ratio?

Reconfiguration of a fuel pump setup could only change A/F ratios if the new pump has an output that is too much for the re-used regulator and return system to handle. In the configuration that we sell this product, it uses a 255lph pump, which the OEM regulator is tested and proven to be able to keep within specification.

This product CAN be upgraded to much higher LPH output for forced induction cars, and if doing that, it will require additional modifications to the fuel system to be able to regulate fuel pressure properly.

O&G 01-13-2013 10:55 PM

Have yall thought about designing fuel rails to go with your VHR return system? I know the VHR rails are bigger than the DE/HR rails but not too sure at what power level they would need to be changed. I had the CJM full return system on my TT VQDE and loved it. Also, whats your fuel pressure look like on your current TT e85 build? Sorry to swing it off subject a bit...

phunk 01-13-2013 11:29 PM

We already have VHR rails. They are currently out of stock, but we have made them and sold them. They dont sell much because the stock rails and fuel system can keep up with the stock engine.

My fuel pressure is completely stock, and so is my fuel system. I just have injectors and CJM fuel pump install kit with an Aeromotive 340

nismo09 01-16-2013 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR_ (Post 2109570)
I could have really used it this weekend at CoTA. I began fuel starving 12 minutes into a 25 minute session. What is worse is that I was starving at three different corners by the end of the session. This will be my next modification!!

I hear you brother - I started starving in turns 16/17/18 after 2 laps on a full tank. :shakes head: When the rear end popped up it was hold on for dear life. Thank god that track is wide and smooth.

wstar 01-18-2013 12:01 PM

Fedex just dropped mine off today, thanks Charles :)

http://www.the370z.com/members/wstar...starve-kit.jpg

Unfortunately given I'm swamped with move-in stuff on a new house, and my next event is a week away, I'll have to wait until after that event to install and test. Feels good just having it here ready to go though :)

SPOHN 01-18-2013 12:06 PM

Awesome. ^

Shamu 01-18-2013 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk (Post 2109834)
as stated before me, it has been tested to a completely empty fuel tank on the road course.

As for a warranty? Well, I have never stated one.. but sure I will gladly warranty it. There is actually no need to warranty it since it is almost entirely a solid state device that could never possibly wear out, except for the Walbro fuel pump that resides within it. This pump I would warranty within reason, as fuel pumps wear out and fail eventually no matter what. If someone tells me 2 weeks later it died, ya I will replace that.

It will not impact fuel/air ratios... well, except when youre making a hard right turn, you will no longer lean out the engine to the point that it cannot stay running. The factory fuel pressure regulator is still utilized, and with no change in fuel pressure, there is no change in A/F.

I was referring to Nissan warranty. If this system causes potential issue will nissan still warranty motor and systems? That pretty important for resale value.

Mike 01-19-2013 07:08 AM

Nissan wouldn't even know about it. I doubt the dealer is going to tear out the interior and inspect the gas tank if your motor blows.

SPOHN 01-19-2013 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamu (Post 2119569)
I was referring to Nissan warranty. If this system causes potential issue will nissan still warranty motor and systems? That pretty important for resale value.

You think having half a tank is going to have a warrenty too? Lol.

phunk 01-19-2013 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamu (Post 2119569)
I was referring to Nissan warranty. If this system causes potential issue will nissan still warranty motor and systems? That pretty important for resale value.

Any time you modify or track your car, you have technical voided some part of your warranty. Some dealers will try and act like you have voided the entire warranty on the car, some understand how their vehicles work and only will not warranty the actual parts you replaced and anything they can have effects on.

This is simply a fuel pump upgrade. If you think that your dealer would try and reject your vehicle because you upgraded your fuel pump, I would highly suggest you dont brag to them about it, and all will be well.

The dealer will never know it is installed. But if you have reason to believe they are going to poke around inside the fuel tank, you could simply remove the kit and return to stock while the car is with Nissan. You should be able to remove the kit easily, with the exception of probably having to cut the 3 short blue hoses in the bag that you can see in wstar's picture.... those would probably be nearly impossible to pull off without cutting. In that event, I would send over replacements no problem, or you could buy it anywhere... its Aeroquip AQP -6 Hose.

phunk 01-19-2013 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar (Post 2118351)
Fedex just dropped mine off today, thanks Charles :)

http://www.the370z.com/members/wstar...starve-kit.jpg

Unfortunately given I'm swamped with move-in stuff on a new house, and my next event is a week away, I'll have to wait until after that event to install and test. Feels good just having it here ready to go though :)

:happydance: glad it has arrived safe and sound

Reaper42 01-19-2013 01:50 PM

Can I get one of these? Please :)

phunk 01-19-2013 03:06 PM

For sure... I have some more of the Walbro pumps coming in next week and then I can assemble another unit no problem


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