On the stock system the pump is in the passenger (right) side, and yes there's a simple crossover tube to the left (driver) side that tries to slowly level out the two. When you take a long hard right-hander, all the fuel goes to the left (driver) side, away from the pump, and that little crossover balancing tube really can't do anything about that. It will slowly level the two sides when there's no significant side load on the car, but it can't go against the g-force (or supply enough fuel to keep the pump running regardless).

Even after having seen it up close and installed it (twice!), I still don't fully understand Phunk's system, but it's complicated and it seems to work in all conditions, so I don't care how it works as long as it works :)

It puts a surge can and secondary pump in the driver's side, and runs 3 hoses back and forth between that and the factory pump on the passenger's side, and also involves some modifications to the internal hoses on the factory pump module (which also has a very small reservoir area). Others have backyard-engineered other systems with other tradeoffs (including pumps with pickups in the all the corners of the tank, cutting the tank in half so there's nowhere to hide the fuel from the pump at, etc. I'm sure you can make something else work cheaply if you want, but there's always tradeoffs...

I saw the cut tank, haha that's cool! I wanna pull the pump to also see if anythings changed from the pics I've seen. With me finding so many changes on the 13 I would love to know I don't have this problems. Only plus g's I've done so far were on a full tank so...

part numbers of the 2013 fuel tank and fuel sending unit match previous years parts.

what changes have you found in the 2013?

the thing you need to realize about the factory siphon in the tank, is that it is a venturi that is created from return fuel pressure. when you slosh the fuel to the left of the tank in a right turn, the fuel pump starves, there is no fuel at all coming through the regulator because the regulator is not allowing any bypass below its fuel pressure setting. therefore you have no return fuel to operate the venturi, and the factory over-tank siphon is dead, and will not function again until the system is up to full fuel pressure.

this is why when some of us make a hard and long enough right hand turn below a half tank, our cars are literally stranded on the side of the road until we add fuel to the tank. because no matter how long you sit there and wait, that siphon is not going to work without full fuel pressure.

the standard kit as it has been sold, i would rate for 500-550rwhp turbocharged, and less for supercharged cars. Beyond that, we are talking about custom installation and setup kits for the order. a second fuel pump will have to be installed into the secondary fuel pump slot, and some changes need to be made to plumbing, and an activation system for the secondary pump needs to be setup.

my ratings might be conservative, its hard to say. if you are able to get by on a walbro 255 now, you probably will be able to with my standard kit. its just that my standard kit isnt going to utilize its pump quite as effectively due to extra plumbing length. i also have reason to believe that the special model walbro 255 we use could possibly have a slightly lower power rating than a typical 255 due to it having secondary functions that leach from the overall volume output.

Def interested in eventually picking this up as it is a must have if you track the car. Hell, Juno was getting fuel starve on the dragon this year with around 3/4 of a tank :mad:

Phunk, you mentioned earlier trying ot get the price point down a bit if possible. It's not obscenely high right now BUT if you can get close to around an $800 mark, I don't think we would be able to resist picking this up sooner rather than later. :)

I'm also interested.
I'll post that on the french forum and see if some people are interested over there as well.

Sorry since I am sure this has all been gone over in this thread, but I don't want to read through 34 pages of posts. Did a first batch ever make it out and how much was it? Are there more batches in the works and how tricky of an install is it?

The first batch sold out. I got one of them. :D Phunk said he would make more if there is enough interest.

How much did they end up selling for and how difficult/easy was install?

around $1000. I think pretty much all of us did the install ourselves. There were a couple steps which are a little tight and can be frustrating, but the instructions are really good.

Noticed the fuel hose is not rated for in tank usage... anyone else pick up on this?

nope but it doesn't really matter since CJ Motorsports hasn't even had much interest in making the product go on sale again... ;(

Probably cause so many act like there interested till money comes into play.

nonrefundable deposit :P 50%... problem solved

He's not a major manufacturer and its the only off the shelf solution out there. Are you really worried about the deposit. I'm sure he doesn't want to get hit with the cost of making it when someone backs out after ordering. He's not going to rip anyone off, he has been in the z community a long time

Charles is the man when it come to VQ fuel systems. He checks his emails daily and will do what he can for good customers. I'm currently working with him to get a fuel return kit.

When I installed mine. I had a few questions, and we texted back and forth for about 3 hrs. He's a stand up guy. Something you don't see too often. ;)

+1 on that, CJM has been great to work with.

Travis, can you elaborate on the "hose rated for in-tank usage" thing? I'm not about to tear back into mine to look, but I assume you mean the blue hose that you cut several runs of to go back and forth with.

That probably just means it never went through the test cycle for it.

My thought on it was that if it can tolerate the fuel inside of it, it's going to be fine with fuel on the outside as well, assuming the inside and outside are the same material.

Actually, fuel hoses are rated differently if they are immersed in the tank. How do I know, well Aprilia RSVR 1000 bikes had lots of problems with the internal hose in the tank splitting causing breakdowns. There was a fix and the hose that came with it (repair kit under warranty) was rated to be in the tank.

The AQP hose we use inside the tank for the fuel starvation kit is not "rated" for in-tank use. However, we have been successful with it for years in other applications. The only thing I have noticed is that it can stiffen up a bit, but I haven't had one fail yet... Some being submerged going on like 10 years now. I certainly hope it does not cause an issue for anyone.

Getting hose that is rated for submersion in fuel isn't always an easy task, especially once you get away from 5/16 size hose which is the most popular fuel line size. There are SAE ratings that judge a hose for its purpose, pressure, and location. However, you can purchase hoses made of the same materials that do not have the SAE ratings.

Very few manufacturers care to let us know if their hoses are up to the task... So it's often up to us to individually research a hose and try and find out what it's made of.

But yes, it definitely matters. Most fuel lines only have a very thin inside lining that is compatible with fuel. Once the outer layers begin to degrade, there is nothing supporting the inside liner to hold up to pressure without bursting.

Most people don't think anything about it. I have seen tons of guys use stainless braided fuel lines in their tanks... None of that stainless braided hose has an outer jacket that is fuel safe. As time passes, fuel will degrade the rubber between the liner and stainless braid, until the inline eventually fails. It can take years though. Sometimes it can happen quickly.

There are 2 different hoses I use inside the tank. Both have seen 100s of installs where they lasted years and are still going strong. One I have had a couple failures from but it seemed like a special case since so many others haven't.

I have all the equipment to assemble OEM type nylon hoses and quick connectors... And I will be moving to it more when I get more comfortable with it. It's much cheaper and lighter, I just don't trust it as much yet as far as temperature and abrasion. There are other concerns I have with it in terms of aftermarket integration if anyone wants to talk about it I can go into details. I almost supplied nylon for this project.

I try to use PTFE hoses for almost everything that I can. That stuff is where it's at. Unfortunately you cannot clamp it down on a barb, meaning there are limitations to where you can use it. If it were up to me, we would use it for everything.

edit: revisiting this issue, i have found a manufacturer of a SAE submersible rated hose in the correct size that can be used with standard barbs and clamps. I cant find it in stock anywhere, but they are at least listing the proper size in existence. Last I checked, I could only find it in 5/16. It looks like it would be about $200 to purchase it in enough length for this application. Another website it comes up about $360. Ultimately, not effective. If anyone has a problem, we can get this stuff. But I am hoping we dont see anything come up.

Good enough for me

^ thanks for the follow-up. I agree with everything you're saying, and will be using a different hose. I'm trying to build a car I can continue to track for the next 6-8 years. Will post here later once we nail down the spec, but it looks like it will be $180 or so.

Travis, when are you coming to Road Atlanta again?

Hoping to make this

NASA :: South East Region

if not, then this one

ChinMotorsports.com - More Tracks, More Track Time

You?

Need my car back first. :shakes head:

For those interested in getting in the next batch, please visit my new thread : http://www.the370z.com/track-autocro...round-2-a.html

I saw a cj motorsports dual pump assembly on the z1 site. Is this a new product to solve fuel starve?

The standard twin fuel pump assembly doesn't help resolve fuel starvation intentionally. It is designed just for high HP needs. It's possible it may help starvation a little.. Or it may make it a little worse... I can think if characteristics that would go both ways so I'm not sure where it lands. The twin pump also requires return conversion and full custom AN plumbing from tank to engine and back.