$350 to cut my tank in half.

this is suitable for a stripped lightweight track car... but of course unacceptable for a street driven vehicle, especially one that may be resold one day. If I were to convert my 370z to nothing but a dedicated track car, i might consider doing this. However, I feel that if you are willing to fabricate on the fuel tank, why not just simply open it up and solve the problem then seal it back together, retaining full capacity? A half-tank is kind of a thought-free solution if you just want the problem solved I suppose.

No rush, these will be available for a long time!

That is a difficult question for me. For as long as I have specialized in fuel systems, I have been opposed to fuel cells and never put much thought into them. My feelings are that a large container is a large container... and before I would fabricate all over my car to install a fuel cell, I would just open the stock fuel tank and simply solve the problems, then close it back up and re-install it. This allows you to also stay with the fuel in the factory location which is safer in collisions and better placement of the weight. The only way to use this location otherwise, is a completely custom fabricated fuel cell. But my feelings are still that there is already a fuel tank of the perfect shape for that location that came in the car from the factory, and simply needs a little thought and fabrication to clear up the issues.

A lot of tracks and racing organizations require you to have a bulkhead between the driving cabin and where the fuel is stored so building a fuel cell setup will require you to take that into account. CJM's design retains factory style plumbing, storage and pumps. It's the best solution out there for our platform, especially for those people wanting to keep the stock look and feel. There are plenty of other companies out there that make surge tanks and you can even design a custom setup for a reasonable price, but this product is specifically designed for the 370Z which makes it particularly attractive.

Is the whole unit steel? I have a fab guy that would do it for almost nothing.

Yes sir. ;) But do you know what you have to go through in dropping the tank?

lol, it's not that bad is it?

I mean, unplug everything, drop the drive shaft, unbolt it ??

As long as it's empty, not so big a deal is it?

You have to drop the rear subframe also.

Yuck

Depending on how fluent you are, a tank can be dropped in about 45 minutes to an 1 hr. you do not have to drop the rear sub-frame.

Here is a rather descriptive thread. PM for more details

Here's the link
http://www.the370z.com/track-autocro...fuel-pump.html

Thought free? Nice weight drop, puts weight on passenger side where I wanted it. 9 gallons more than enough for typical track session, clean look. Retains all stock fuel filler equipment and position. Allows me to put diff cooler in back with no net weight gain. For enthusiast it's pretty straight forward and why just for dedicated track car? I drive my car on the street. Yes you have to make determination about resale of car however if you have put a cage in your car etc its an option. It's not quite the same commitment as fuel cell.

If I had a dedicated race car I'd go for a fuel cell for sure. Stock tank isn't worth keeping regardless of what has been dropped into it to pump fuel. That's smart? Lol!

It's cool that we have variety of solutions. :tup: It's all good! Mines cheaper and simple minded though.

I like it, pretty clever if you ask me

Yes that my overall take on it. I dont consider the method to be solving a problem so much as just throwing the problem out the window :)

The only value I see in it is the space gained to install other components. The point of fixing fuel starvation was because the community was complaining about having to stop and fill up the fuel tank all the time. Cutting overall capacity to less than half, and still not adding any fluid placement control to the remaining portion which means fuel starvation is still going to occur with probably 1.5-2 gallons left, doesnt sound like the solution... more of a serious compromise.

Let us know how well the fuel gauge works, with the missing sensor.

If you had a dedicated race car, what would your justification for installing a fuel cell be? Is it a rule/requirement in your sort of racing?

I'd expect someone marketing fuel starve product to have this take. Don't blame you at all. Just think my solution has more value than you think. ...and you can't beat the price! What is someone into with your solution once they pay for labor and all parts? $1500? I have $1200 to spend on other stuff I need like a diff cooler and few other track focused items.

I think it's a great solution for people who want to keep car very stock and not really molest the car though! Awesome work! Curious does it add much weight? My car lost over 15 lbs.

Sorry not trying to thread jack, but I had a little issue and figured you guys could help.

Question is about fuel starvation. What is the consequence (or car behavior) from the fuel starve? I will give some detail on what I experienced a few days ago.

I was accelerating up an on ramp to the interstate, was in 4th gear rolling onto the throttle and coming out of it planted. About 50 feet into the straight at 5k rpms it reacted like I hit rev limiter. Vitals looked great so after a mile or so I done a WOT in 4th again and it did not happen.

Later I took another right turn but much shorter maybe a 80 degree 100-125 FT turn. Same thing as I came into the straight around 5k rpms it acted like I hit the rev limiter. I played around all the way home and it did not do it again. Only after these right turns.

That said, I know a long sweeping right turn causes issues. What are the issues exactly (fuel cut car reaction)? Does it hit you while in the corner? Or in my instance's I was in and out of the corner quickly so the lag hit me as I was coming into the straight?

I had a couple dots over a quarter of a tank of fuel remaining, also the car is TT.
Thanks for any input I will rep when it recharges I ran out for the day!

If it was marketing I was worried about, I would have had your several posts in my paid sponsored thread removed. I believe everyone should be exposed to all their options. My product turned out to be more expensive than I was hoping, and I have no problem with anyone seeking alternate options.

The thing is, it is my thread, and I am entitled to criticize things posted here that I don't entirely endorse. I will not deny that what you have done is functional... But while you point out the many benefits to what you have done, I simply point out what shortcomings I see.

My product so far has only been installed by the customer, so their final price is the same as the retail price. I am skeptical that anyone is going to do what you have done for $350... Most shops are going to charge at least that just to remove and reinstall the tank, and fab work on top of that.

Aside from that... If anyone removed their tank and sent it to me, I would gladly replicate what you have done.

What is going to be your solution for the fuel level circuit having the missing sensor?

This is fuel starvation all the way. Tomorrow I will right a detailed response... This is difficult to do from my iPhone!

Shamu forgot to mention, my product should add in the area of 5#. Ill give you exact weight tomorrow. It's minimal and of course is extremely countered by the weight savings in fuel quantity

Thanks so much! That keeps me at ease at least. I may purchase this in the future because I may track this car one day.

What are the lap times now?
 

Question for those of you that have made this modification (Spohn, Mike, et al) what are your lap times before/after the fix?

no different, just get to do a lot more laps per fillup.

So you haven't gone around with <1 gallon to see how much time you'd save? :confused:

It will be cool once this solution has been thoroughly tested by track drivers who have had fuel starve issues and to see how low people can go without an issue.

Does this product carry a warranty? And curious if you install this will it void manufactures warranty if it were to impact fuel air ratio and cause engine failure? That's probably important for people with cars still under warranty to know.

Shamu,
I have gone down to bone dry with no issues. I don't see how it can affect fuel air ratio, its just another pump on the other side of the tank. The fuel pump doesn't meter fuel to the engine.

threeseventy, I haven't checked times for that. All of my times are pretty consistent with full or empty tank though.

I could have really used it this weekend at CoTA. I began fuel starving 12 minutes into a 25 minute session. What is worse is that I was starving at three different corners by the end of the session. This will be my next modification!!

how does a surge tank / extra pump affect A/F ratio?

Keeps it from going to infinity unintentionally.

In simple terms. Without it. Fuel moves away from the pump. Pump starts to suck air. A/F goes lean. Motor shuts down. ;)

The fuel level you were at was well into the fuel starvation risk area. Basically, once the gauge no longer reads topped off, you are at risk, and the risk increases the lower you go.

you often will not realize that you are in the middle of fuel starvation while in the right hand turn, and then you will encounter it as soon as you go to give it gas. it feels as if the gas peddle is not connected to anything because the trans is in gear, the engine is spinning, but it is not responding to giving it gas. at this point, the engine is only spinning because you are in gear, if you took it out of gear, the engine will die unless the fuel pump happens to grab some fuel as youre letting off.

when you make the hard or long right, the fuel sloshes over to the drivers side of the tank. If the turn was aggressive enough, you can get nearly all the fuel to go over there. so even though you have straightened out after the turn... most the fuel is over on the other side of the tank, and when you go to give it gas there is such a little amount that the pump cannot meet the engines needs.

it takes the system time to recover the fuel from over there. there is a little siphon that is powered by a venturi effect in the fuel leaving the fuel pressure regulator. it is constantly, and slowly, transferring fuel from the driver side to the passenger side where the pump resides. since it is required that the fuel pressure regulator be allowing fuel to bypass, if you are even low on fuel pressure, the siphon will die. this means you can actually transfer all the fuel to the other side, have the engine die, and there will be nothing you can do (short of adding more fuel into the tank) to get the fuel back to the passenger side. the car can actually be stuck on the side of the road until you bring it gas.

as stated before me, it has been tested to a completely empty fuel tank on the road course.

As for a warranty? Well, I have never stated one.. but sure I will gladly warranty it. There is actually no need to warranty it since it is almost entirely a solid state device that could never possibly wear out, except for the Walbro fuel pump that resides within it. This pump I would warranty within reason, as fuel pumps wear out and fail eventually no matter what. If someone tells me 2 weeks later it died, ya I will replace that.

It will not impact fuel/air ratios... well, except when youre making a hard right turn, you will no longer lean out the engine to the point that it cannot stay running. The factory fuel pressure regulator is still utilized, and with no change in fuel pressure, there is no change in A/F.

Reconfiguration of a fuel pump setup could only change A/F ratios if the new pump has an output that is too much for the re-used regulator and return system to handle. In the configuration that we sell this product, it uses a 255lph pump, which the OEM regulator is tested and proven to be able to keep within specification.

This product CAN be upgraded to much higher LPH output for forced induction cars, and if doing that, it will require additional modifications to the fuel system to be able to regulate fuel pressure properly.

Have yall thought about designing fuel rails to go with your VHR return system? I know the VHR rails are bigger than the DE/HR rails but not too sure at what power level they would need to be changed. I had the CJM full return system on my TT VQDE and loved it. Also, whats your fuel pressure look like on your current TT e85 build? Sorry to swing it off subject a bit...

We already have VHR rails. They are currently out of stock, but we have made them and sold them. They dont sell much because the stock rails and fuel system can keep up with the stock engine.

My fuel pressure is completely stock, and so is my fuel system. I just have injectors and CJM fuel pump install kit with an Aeromotive 340

I hear you brother - I started starving in turns 16/17/18 after 2 laps on a full tank. :shakes head: When the rear end popped up it was hold on for dear life. Thank god that track is wide and smooth.

Fedex just dropped mine off today, thanks Charles :)

http://www.the370z.com/members/wstar...starve-kit.jpg

Unfortunately given I'm swamped with move-in stuff on a new house, and my next event is a week away, I'll have to wait until after that event to install and test. Feels good just having it here ready to go though :)

Awesome. ^

I was referring to Nissan warranty. If this system causes potential issue will nissan still warranty motor and systems? That pretty important for resale value.

Nissan wouldn't even know about it. I doubt the dealer is going to tear out the interior and inspect the gas tank if your motor blows.