WC SFR #52 brake problems at Long Beach

PapaJFresh · 04-30-2012, 08:53 AM

I was watching the telecast of the World Challenge Long Beach race this weekend and saw that the #52 370Z of SFR had brake issues twice on the same corner. Both times the car went into the tire barrier and it couldn't recover after the second time.

Was this ice mode? What happened to the car? Has Nissan Motorsports provided their promised ABS fix yet?

Good luck the rest of the season.

Dwnshift · 04-30-2012, 10:15 AM

Not sure what you are reffering to for the "Nissan Motorsports ABS fix"...and I cannot speak for them but...
It really depends what that team is running currently...and its usually up to the team and that teams budget.
It may also be something else...without "knowing" its all a guess...could have been a bad shock or other shock issue, too agressive a pad, bleed wrong, not enough cooling...could have been many things.
Again true racing brake setups using ABS are not cheap...and running in that particular series or Conti...if you are not using what you can be using...you could be leaving a lot on the table.
It may come down to budget....but without knowing what the team is currently running or what the circumstances were...its all speculation.

PapaJFresh · 04-30-2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwnshift

Not sure what you are reffering to for the "Nissan Motorsports ABS fix"...and I cannot speak for them but...
It really depends what that team is running currently...and its usually up to the team and that teams budget.
It may also be something else...without "knowing" its all a guess...could have been a bad shock or other shock issue, too agressive a pad, bleed wrong, not enough cooling...could have been many things.
Again true racing brake setups using ABS are not cheap...and running in that particular series or Conti...if you are not using what you can be using...you could be leaving a lot on the table.
It may come down to budget....but without knowing what the team is currently running or what the circumstances were...its all speculation.

Back in St Petersburg, I was talking with one the SFR mechanics and he told me that Nissan was committing long term to the series and providing support to both 370Z teams. One of the first things that Nissan was supposed to provide was a fix to the ABS issues that both teams (and many others that track their cars) have seen.

Dwnshift · 04-30-2012, 12:48 PM

Again...I cant comment /speak for N.M....but there are already solutions out there for race teams in series such as WC or Conti series..i would think it would come down to teams wanting to spend the $ or not.
The Tevis ABS is $8500+... designed specifically for a motorsports application....racing isnt cheap.
If teams are not running it...they are already putting themselves at a disadvantage.
Also...without knowing exactly what the teams are currently using in all areas...its all speculation as to why they were having a brake issue.
Dwnshift

cossie1600 · 04-30-2012, 12:58 PM

Do the rc cars come with factory abs?

Dwnshift · 04-30-2012, 01:43 PM

The RC comes with BOSCH racing adjustable ABS which is the neigborhood of about $10k.
Am Performance ran the Tevis unit...which is plug and play to most OEM systems but may require some finagling in the wirring harness and possibly different wheel speed sensors.
I can say this ...when I was involved with the 350Z program back in 2003 -2005 we ran the factory ABS and factory Brembo Track model brake calipers...we never had an ABS issue and had some of the best brakes in the series.

ChrisSlicks · 04-30-2012, 02:10 PM

The factory ABS used to be good, not quite sure what happened.

bkleeman · 04-30-2012, 03:31 PM

The SFR #51 and #52 are running the Teves ABS system and are also both running brake ducts. The ducts are not, however, the RC ducts so there are numerous turns in them from the intake to the rotor.

I don't know the precise details of Greg's shunt, but I suspect that the ducting was insufficient and he boiled the fluid which is the same thing that put us out around lap 11 after I used the escape road in the same corner.

Greg and Ric have both told me that the Teves system completely cured the Ice Mode problems they were previously having.

Dwnshift · 04-30-2012, 07:54 PM

Brian...good to hear.
We have used that system in the past and also found that too aggessive of a pad can be a bad thing as well...also it did seem fairly finicky on the bleeding procedure.
The RC ducts are in at Nissan motorsports and available

Another thing about running the RC ducts...it lets all the air entering the front to be used for specifically for intake and engine cooling...I believe the Z guys were allowed a vented hood because of high under hood / engine temps....that would be nice for us but oh well

Dwnshift

_ace_ · 04-30-2012, 08:41 PM

Obviously getting cooling is the right answer, but wouldn't a cheap supplemental fix for boiling be to just use an oversized master cylinder so the system operates with a lot more total fluid?

ChrisSlicks · 04-30-2012, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _ace_

Obviously getting cooling is the right answer, but wouldn't a cheap supplemental fix for boiling be to just use an oversized master cylinder so the system operates with a lot more total fluid?

It's not a return system beyond the ABS module, the extra fluid up top doesn't help the boiling at the caliper. You need to cool at the source.

04-30-2012, 08:53 AM	#1 (permalink)
PapaJFresh Base Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 35 Drives: '11 370Z Tour/Sport Rep Power: 14	WC SFR #52 brake problems at Long Beach I was watching the telecast of the World Challenge Long Beach race this weekend and saw that the #52 370Z of SFR had brake issues twice on the same corner. Both times the car went into the tire barrier and it couldn't recover after the second time. Was this ice mode? What happened to the car? Has Nissan Motorsports provided their promised ABS fix yet? Good luck the rest of the season. __________________ 2011 370Z 7AT Touring + Sport + Navi \| Stillen G3 CAI \| Berk HFC \| F.I. CBE CF 18" res \| 13.295 @ 102.88 mph

04-30-2012, 01:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
Dwnshift Track Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Cincy Posts: 717 Drives: NISMO 370Z RC Rep Power: 14	The RC comes with BOSCH racing adjustable ABS which is the neigborhood of about $10k. Am Performance ran the Tevis unit...which is plug and play to most OEM systems but may require some finagling in the wirring harness and possibly different wheel speed sensors. I can say this ...when I was involved with the 350Z program back in 2003 -2005 we ran the factory ABS and factory Brembo Track model brake calipers...we never had an ABS issue and had some of the best brakes in the series. Last edited by Dwnshift; 04-30-2012 at 01:46 PM.

04-30-2012, 02:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	The factory ABS used to be good, not quite sure what happened. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

04-30-2012, 03:31 PM	#8 (permalink)
bkleeman Base Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 44 Drives: 2009 370Z GTS #07 Rep Power: 14	The SFR #51 and #52 are running the Teves ABS system and are also both running brake ducts. The ducts are not, however, the RC ducts so there are numerous turns in them from the intake to the rotor. I don't know the precise details of Greg's shunt, but I suspect that the ducting was insufficient and he boiled the fluid which is the same thing that put us out around lap 11 after I used the escape road in the same corner. Greg and Ric have both told me that the Teves system completely cured the Ice Mode problems they were previously having. __________________ Brian Kleeman Nissan 370Z - Pirelli World Challenge GTS #07 D.W.W. Motorsports \| DXD Racing Clutches \| SPL Parts \| Aeromotions.com

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04-30-2012, 10:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
Dwnshift Track Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Cincy Posts: 717 Drives: NISMO 370Z RC Rep Power: 14	Not sure what you are reffering to for the "Nissan Motorsports ABS fix"...and I cannot speak for them but... It really depends what that team is running currently...and its usually up to the team and that teams budget. It may also be something else...without "knowing" its all a guess...could have been a bad shock or other shock issue, too agressive a pad, bleed wrong, not enough cooling...could have been many things. Again true racing brake setups using ABS are not cheap...and running in that particular series or Conti...if you are not using what you can be using...you could be leaving a lot on the table. It may come down to budget....but without knowing what the team is currently running or what the circumstances were...its all speculation.

04-30-2012, 12:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
Dwnshift Track Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Cincy Posts: 717 Drives: NISMO 370Z RC Rep Power: 14	Again...I cant comment /speak for N.M....but there are already solutions out there for race teams in series such as WC or Conti series..i would think it would come down to teams wanting to spend the $ or not. The Tevis ABS is $8500+... designed specifically for a motorsports application....racing isnt cheap. If teams are not running it...they are already putting themselves at a disadvantage. Also...without knowing exactly what the teams are currently using in all areas...its all speculation as to why they were having a brake issue. Dwnshift

04-30-2012, 12:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	Do the rc cars come with factory abs?

04-30-2012, 07:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
Dwnshift Track Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Cincy Posts: 717 Drives: NISMO 370Z RC Rep Power: 14	Brian...good to hear. We have used that system in the past and also found that too aggessive of a pad can be a bad thing as well...also it did seem fairly finicky on the bleeding procedure. The RC ducts are in at Nissan motorsports and available Another thing about running the RC ducts...it lets all the air entering the front to be used for specifically for intake and engine cooling...I believe the Z guys were allowed a vented hood because of high under hood / engine temps....that would be nice for us but oh well Dwnshift

04-30-2012, 08:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
_ace_ Base Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: USA Posts: 140 Drives: 370Z Rep Power: 14	Obviously getting cooling is the right answer, but wouldn't a cheap supplemental fix for boiling be to just use an oversized master cylinder so the system operates with a lot more total fluid?