noob HPDE questions

chillz

I just got the Z a month ago and I'd like to do an HPDE1 session. I searched, but I still have a couple questions:

Lime Rock (March 31st) and NJMP (April 21st and 22nd) are both within driving distance for me; is one track preferred for this event over the other, and is there an advantage to the two day event? This would be my first time on a track.

I've read in threads here and on the NASA forums that it's best to keep one's car stock for the first few events (assuming I did more than one). I also have no idea if I'll ever do this again, so I'd prefer to spend as little money as possible on stuff I might never need again. Having said that, I want to be safe, and to have a good time. Is it necessary to change the brake pads for the day, and will I need an oil cooler, especially if I did the event at Lime Rock, which is in late March?

sig11

I always go for two day events if possible. Getting to sleep on what you learned and going out the second day really helps a lot. Your first couple sessions may feel like information overload but it won't be long before you start to put it all together.

I'm not familiar with those specific tracks... but I started on what is the most dangerous track in my area (Waterford Hills Road Racing. Lots of walls and gators) in a really terrible rain. Just give yourself more margin and try to relax. Your instructors will help with that.

I'll bet you $100 you are hooked after the first session. I would keep the car as stock as possible for probably the first year (unless you really start driving the wheels off of it!) then looking at correcting whatever deficiencies you find. That does NOT include running better brake fluid (super blue, motul rbf600, etc), upgraded brake pads, and an oil cooler. Do the brake stuff before your first track event and be ready to want an oil cooler before your next!

Don't hesitate to ask any other questions. I'd take a look at some of the other "first time HPDE" threads here too.

cossie1600

LRP is not a great place for first timer due to its narrow groove and its relative distance to the wall. I would pick Thunderbolt over LRP anyday, but I thought Thunderbolt is rather boring. Here is a lap from Thunderbolt 0908 NJMP Thunderbolt C6 Corvette Redline TT Day 1 - YouTube

One from LRP Lime Rock Park LRP 370z downpour time trial run - YouTube

Also remember there is basically one passing zone at LRP, 2 or 3 at Thunderbolt. There is nothing worse than getting stuck behind a Miata

(I have never tried Lighning, so can't comment on that)

ChrisSlicks

I agree with Sig. Pads and fluid are a must, oil cooler you maybe might get away with for one day if it was cool enough and you were going very easy, but if you drive hard you are going to overheat at any temperature.

I liked NJMP Lightning alot, challenging course with 2 blind crests and the great slingshot off the lightbulb onto the front straight. Easy to learn, difficult to master.

Here's my time trial laps from Lightning.
COMSCC NJMP Lightning TT 7-3-11 - YouTube

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HKYStormFront

i agree with slicks and stig. these guys know what they are talking about. if you can swing pads and fluid (if you can do stainless steel lines at the same time, all the better) great, an oil cooler is not required but you will really want one if the HPDE gives you longer times out on the course. it won't take much more than 10-15 mins on a track (if you are really getting on it) for the oil temps to start escalating

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chillz

Thanks everyone for the feedback -- it's much appreciated. It sounds like the NJMP event is the best bet for me.

There's been a long discussion of appropriate brake pads for the track under the ice mode thread (and others), but do you have an inexpensive recommendation for a newbie? Also, this is probably a dumb question, but I gather that street use and track use are mutually exclusive, so if they're changed out beforehand, is it safe to drive to the track with them? I ask because we're in temporary housing and everything but basic tools (like hammer, screwdriver and pliers) is in storage, there's no garage, and I've never changed brake pads or fluid in any case. I'm just wondering about the best way to handle logistics; have a mechanic change them beforehand, or do they need to be done at the track.

BTW, the car has Continental Contact Extreme DWS tires on it now. Will that pose any problems?

I will have to investigate the price of the oil cooler + install and weigh against the likelihood of my doing this more than once...

Thanks again for the advice, guys.

HKYStormFront

if you go to a good event (and have a good instructor), i guarantee if you are at all interested, you'll be hooked. there's nothing like it, nothing even close

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ResIpsa

When you say that you have never changed brake pads or fluids does this mean on this particular car or ever. Because, if you have never changed brake pads on any car before you really should not pop your cherry before a track day. Also, changing brake fluid is tricky on our cars without some type of power bleeder.

Yes, you can drive on track pads but they will probably be loud and very dirty. I have a set of Porterfield R4’s that sound like metal on metal until they get some heat in them (and I am not recommending Porterfield R4’s as your track pads, get CarboTechs or Hawks).

Also, Hawk and Stop Tech make some street/track pads that probably will work for your 1st event.

But if you do only one thing, I suggest upgrading your brake fluid to a race formula. And don’t get cheap with this, I suggest Castrol SRF, Pro Speed, AP Racing, or Motul. The ATE stuff is cheap but I have easily boiled this blue stuff and you might as well spend an extra $50 bucks for added safety.

Keep in mind, when you boil your fluid your pedal goes to the floor in an instant and you lose your brakes. It will take a couple of track days before your mind can process a situation like that. You have about one second to choose the best of a couple bad options. Such as:

1. Drive into the wall.
2. Use the car in front of you as a substitute for brakes.
3. Open your car doors as air brakes.
4. Pee your pants.
5. Safely drive straight into the gravel trap at the end of the corner.

Off course option 3 is the only correct option. Just give your instructor a heads up so he knows when to open the door.

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ChrisSlicks

I usually do 4 in combination with another.

I did quite a few events with ATE fluid before I found it's limit. I don't think a novice would be punishing the brakes hard enough to boil ATE fluid especially in the cooler weather. I've had good results with the Motul and AP, definitely handles the temperature extremes a little better and are more reasonably priced than the SRF.

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Mike

I think you will be fine on street pads and tires and without an oil cooler for a very first event. If you find you are comfortable enough to push the car to where fluid and pads were a factor, you would go into limp mode from oil cooling before you would kill the brakes.

Remember guys, this is a first time on track experience, he won't be pushing it.

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sig11

I think that depends a little on the track/instructor too though... I had my Carbotechs lightly smoking on my second track day (first dry). :P Admittedly that was at Gingerman which is fairly rough on brakes though.

cossie1600

Bring the parts over and I will help you, takes 3 hrs to do everything

chillz

Seems like the appropriate reaction to me...

Fixed, and that's comforting -- in a perverse sort of way.

That's very generous of you to offer.

I have to say that the mixed reaction to the brakes question makes me inclined to change the pads and fluid. I can live without that kind of excitement. I just signed up for the April weekend, so I have time...

gtkiller

Like sig and Chris mentioned are all great info I'm on the west coast so I can't give any input on the tracks you've mentioned. I've replaced my brake pads, brake fluid and sway bar and been driving the car stock on the factory tires for a year now its been a great learning experience. By keeping it stock it will be easier to identify problems with either the car or driving techniques. If your slow or fast you'll know it's cause of your on skills. Nothing to blame on the car until your able to drive it to the limits after then you'll know what you want to improve with your car. Be safe have fun and use common sense the ultimate goal is to drive your car home.

flashburn

I definitely agree with this. I can't imagine how bad my first track day would of been if I kept everything at stock. I definitely recommend just biting the bullet and doing an oil cooler, pads, and fluid before hand. At least if you are expecting this to become a real hobby, more than likely, you'll come out of it wanting to do it again.

You might also want to look into HPDE insurance. You can do a google search to come up with a few companies that offer this.

Your tires will probably be okay, but not great. Certainly good enough for your first time out. I was running on Hankook V12's my first time, and was fairly happy with them. Also, changing the brake pads on our cars are very, very easy. Becomes very quick (under 10 minutes a wheel, after jacking the car up) after you do it a few times.

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