Brake Pad Advice?

wstar · 09-20-2011, 10:44 PM

I've been reading up here and everywhere, but still a bit confused on my choices. So for reference the basics of the scenario is:

The car is a DD (although I don't have a commute, so I can go a bit extreme on what "DD" means), it's on street tires (currently Conti DW, but lets say at the outer limit I might switch to Pilot SS or similar grade of street tire) which I plan to also use at the track, stock calipers, SS brake lines, Motul fluid, and I'm only using one shared set of brake rotors. The rotors are a bit upgraded from stock (they're Relentless 2-piece, better cooling vanes, slotted, thicker than stock in the rear). The rotors are brand new, and I have a set of HPS pads (what I've been using on the street) that I could bed in on them for right now on the street.

My driving skill level is still definitely in the novice category, but hopefully will improve soon. I have an instructor-led 2-day HPDE type thing coming up in about 6 weeks, on a 2.38-mile road course (MSR Houston). I plan to run on this and Texas World Speedway mostly, and in the long term we're probably talking once a month to once every 2 months.

So, I'm looking for one of two things: either one set of compromise pads that are streetable without a huge noise level, won't tear up the rotors, but will survive 20-30 minute track sessions on this street tire setup through several days of HPDE. I haven't yet seen one pad that looks like it can really do dual-duty like that though.

The other option is to decide on two sets of pads, one for DD and one for road course use, but again they need to be compatible for easy re-bedding switching on the same set of rotors, and preferably the race ones aren't too aggressive (seeing as again, I'm on street tires, I'm not an expert, and I'm not a fan of quickly destroying rotors either).

I guess at the upper end of cost, it looks like I could do say Carbotech XP10 + XP8 for track only, and swap back to another set of lighter Carbotech (AX6 or the street pad), since they say the CT pads aren't compatible with non-CT pads on the same rotors for swapping. Looks pricey considering the CT street pads too, and I don't know if I need that level yet.

Another option would be to try something like EBC Blue+Yellow, or all Yellow, (or similar, like Fedoro DS2500?), and again switch to something else for the street (but hopefully it's compatible with something cheap like my current HPS's)? Or are the Yellowstuff all they're cracked up to be and can be used dual-purpose on all 4 as a single-pad solution?

Thoughts?

FL 4Motion · 09-20-2011, 10:57 PM

sorry I admit up front I didn't read your whole post since my eyes started glazing over,

BUT, if you don't want to be switching out your pads for every track event, then a decent compromise pad IMO, are the carbotech XP8's. A little bit extra squeal, dust, harder pedal etc, but totally liveable, at least for me, and they will survive a track event no problem. Esp if you are new to HPDE, then as you get faster, you will most likely either a. move to a more aggressive pad and not care how much dust/noise you generate on the street or b. have to switch pads for your HPDEs with a compatible street only pad.

wstar · 09-20-2011, 11:08 PM

Sorry for the long post then

Was just trying to pre-empt answering all the standard questions people would ask about my brake pad needs.

I worry about the noise level running carbo XP8 or higher on the street though. I know it seems petty or silly, but I don't want to be squealing around everywhere all the time. I've still been reading up more since I posted, I'm starting to lean towards maybe EBC Blue. Seems like they've gotten pretty good reviews as a single mixed-use pad for low noise and decent performance for short track sessions. (or maybe yellow if Blue's a little rougher than what I need).

Mike · 09-20-2011, 11:13 PM

on the rare occassion I drive mine on the street, I have XP12s and they rarely make any noise.

wstar · 09-20-2011, 11:15 PM

Scratch the bluestuff idea, seems they don't make blue for our stock calipers, just yellow.

FL 4Motion · 09-20-2011, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Sorry for the long post then

Was just trying to pre-empt answering all the standard questions people would ask about my brake pad needs.

I worry about the noise level running carbo XP8 or higher on the street though. I know it seems petty or silly, but I don't want to be squealing around everywhere all the time. I've still been reading up more since I posted, I'm starting to lean towards maybe EBC Blue. Seems like they've gotten pretty good reviews as a single mixed-use pad for low noise and decent performance for short track sessions. (or maybe yellow if Blue's a little rougher than what I need).

no worries, not you it's me, your post was very thorough.

xp8's don't squeal that bad at all honestly, I don't think they dust real bad either for what they are. I can only compare them to our last car (GTR) and those oem brembo pads were easily twice as bad for street driving as the xp8's are so I suppose it's all perspective. ANY pad that's more aggressive will seem loud/dusty compared to the Z's oem pads which are really really good at being quiet and clean.

wstar · 09-20-2011, 11:49 PM

XP8's all around is doable? Based on the above I'm willing to give it a shot and see how it fares on the street for now. The description on the XP8 talks about fronts for lighter cars, vs XP10 for a heavier car though. They'll still perform reasonably well on the front of our car (compromises considered and all)?

cossie1600 · 09-21-2011, 12:47 AM

DO NOT USE XP10 on street tires, you will just hit ice mode and scare yourself. Or EBD can kick in. You might not get it as bad as I do due to your experience, but you will poop in your pants if ice mode or EBD kicks in at the wrong time. See my video here, car pulled to the right on its own 0411 370z WGI Unstable brakes.avi - YouTube

XP8 is rotor friendly, but you will always get a little wear and you have to make sure you bed them in right. As for the noise, there is some. I would be more concerned about the dust as they can pit the wheel within a week. Here is how noisy XP10s are Carbotech XP10 brakes - YouTube

If I get in a working mood, I will do some testing with the XP8/XP10/stock pads I have to see how they change the braking distance.

Junk those HPS before they destroy your rotors, worst pads ever. The EBCs are crap too. Grassroot Motorsports recently tested bunch of pads, but I believe they are in the $200-$400 range.

wstar · 09-21-2011, 01:01 AM

The HPS worked fine for me for street driving on the stock brake setup. The rotors look fine too, but I'm not hard on brakes on the street, I tend to downshift and come to stops slowly. I even used them for a several light trial sessions at the track, but again I was really easy on the brakes.

That whistling in that XP10 video is annoying. I assume that's only under light braking when cold?

This seems to be one of those questions where you ask 10 people and get 10 different answers. Everyone says someone else's favorite sucks for some reason

cossie1600 · 09-21-2011, 02:24 AM

My Prius feels fast to me too until I get into my Z.

Light braking you get more. Cold or hot you will get it

wstar · 09-21-2011, 09:00 AM

Well the one thing that's clear from this thread (and really, was already clear from other threads) is that the Carbotech pads are everyone's track favorite for sure on the Z, and that I should probably start out at 8/8 given my current situation, and re-evaluate later as I upgrade tires/skill

.

It's really just how "streetable" those are that opens up all the other questions, I guess because that's kind of subjective. If I don't hate the noise I'll just leave them on full time, and if not I'll spring for CT's own "Bobcat" street pads to use between track weekends since they'll be rotor-compatible.

Unless someone comes up with some other creative and divergent opinion here. Thanks for the input guys

cossie1600 · 09-21-2011, 09:29 AM

There are better pads for sure (cobalt friction comes to mind), but in terms of rotor life and price. I don't know what comes close.

Why don't you just use the OEM pads or something?

I have never used the Bobcat, but no one seems to like it. I have used HPS, HP+, Hawks Blues, Carbotech 8/10/12 and Cobalt Friction

wstar · 09-21-2011, 09:35 AM

You mean use OEM on the street w/ Carbotech 8/8 on a track weekend?

What I've been reading here and there and everywhere is that Carbotech pads leave a different kind of surface deposit than other pads, and it's not recommended to switch between Carbotech-type pads and non-Carbotech pads on the same set of rotors, as you'd have trouble re-bedding properly unless you sanded/ground off the old pad material each time. I suppose in reality it's more about whether it's the same type of compound, not the brand name.

wstar · 09-21-2011, 10:27 AM

Well anyways, I'm still holding out hope that the XP8's will be quiet enough on the street regardless. If not then I'll look at my street options for rotor-compat. It seems like the reviews on XP8 noise vary a lot, and I'm starting to think this is mostly to do with user/install variations. Seems like probably the key is to properly lube them with disc brake lube of sufficiently high temp rating, and to bed them in fully and properly, both of which I intend to get done right.

As far as lube goes, going to give this a try. The temp range on it is out of this world, way beyond temps that would destroy the rest of my brake hardware: http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut..._Lubricant.htm

cossie1600 · 09-21-2011, 11:22 AM

i have been doing the xp8/10 swap to oem pads for 6 years on a 350, c6, rx8 and 370. car never had issues related to pad. i can get 15 to 20k out of the stock rotors on each one before the lip develops. ithe noise is annoying, but i am more worried about the dust as they have pitted the wheels on every car i have had. i never had a problem with cold stops either with them, i just dont want to destroy the wheels.

do you have base calipers? i am not sure why you need lubes given the 4 piston design really dont use them.

just learn to swap the pads and call it a day, takes 15 min per corner

09-20-2011, 10:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Brake Pad Advice? I've been reading up here and everywhere, but still a bit confused on my choices. So for reference the basics of the scenario is: The car is a DD (although I don't have a commute, so I can go a bit extreme on what "DD" means), it's on street tires (currently Conti DW, but lets say at the outer limit I might switch to Pilot SS or similar grade of street tire) which I plan to also use at the track, stock calipers, SS brake lines, Motul fluid, and I'm only using one shared set of brake rotors. The rotors are a bit upgraded from stock (they're Relentless 2-piece, better cooling vanes, slotted, thicker than stock in the rear). The rotors are brand new, and I have a set of HPS pads (what I've been using on the street) that I could bed in on them for right now on the street. My driving skill level is still definitely in the novice category, but hopefully will improve soon. I have an instructor-led 2-day HPDE type thing coming up in about 6 weeks, on a 2.38-mile road course (MSR Houston). I plan to run on this and Texas World Speedway mostly, and in the long term we're probably talking once a month to once every 2 months. So, I'm looking for one of two things: either one set of compromise pads that are streetable without a huge noise level, won't tear up the rotors, but will survive 20-30 minute track sessions on this street tire setup through several days of HPDE. I haven't yet seen one pad that looks like it can really do dual-duty like that though. The other option is to decide on two sets of pads, one for DD and one for road course use, but again they need to be compatible for easy re-bedding switching on the same set of rotors, and preferably the race ones aren't too aggressive (seeing as again, I'm on street tires, I'm not an expert, and I'm not a fan of quickly destroying rotors either). I guess at the upper end of cost, it looks like I could do say Carbotech XP10 + XP8 for track only, and swap back to another set of lighter Carbotech (AX6 or the street pad), since they say the CT pads aren't compatible with non-CT pads on the same rotors for swapping. Looks pricey considering the CT street pads too, and I don't know if I need that level yet. Another option would be to try something like EBC Blue+Yellow, or all Yellow, (or similar, like Fedoro DS2500?), and again switch to something else for the street (but hopefully it's compatible with something cheap like my current HPS's)? Or are the Yellowstuff all they're cracked up to be and can be used dual-purpose on all 4 as a single-pad solution? Thoughts? __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 09-20-2011 at 10:54 PM.

09-20-2011, 11:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Sorry for the long post then Was just trying to pre-empt answering all the standard questions people would ask about my brake pad needs. I worry about the noise level running carbo XP8 or higher on the street though. I know it seems petty or silly, but I don't want to be squealing around everywhere all the time. I've still been reading up more since I posted, I'm starting to lean towards maybe EBC Blue. Seems like they've gotten pretty good reviews as a single mixed-use pad for low noise and decent performance for short track sessions. (or maybe yellow if Blue's a little rougher than what I need). __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 09-20-2011 at 11:11 PM.

09-20-2011, 11:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2186	on the rare occassion I drive mine on the street, I have XP12s and they rarely make any noise. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

09-20-2011, 11:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Scratch the bluestuff idea, seems they don't make blue for our stock calipers, just yellow. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-20-2011, 11:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	XP8's all around is doable? Based on the above I'm willing to give it a shot and see how it fares on the street for now. The description on the XP8 talks about fronts for lighter cars, vs XP10 for a heavier car though. They'll still perform reasonably well on the front of our car (compromises considered and all)? __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 09-20-2011 at 11:51 PM.

09-20-2011, 10:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
FL 4Motion A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: FL Posts: 4,776 Drives: Baby Shark Rep Power: 701615	sorry I admit up front I didn't read your whole post since my eyes started glazing over, BUT, if you don't want to be switching out your pads for every track event, then a decent compromise pad IMO, are the carbotech XP8's. A little bit extra squeal, dust, harder pedal etc, but totally liveable, at least for me, and they will survive a track event no problem. Esp if you are new to HPDE, then as you get faster, you will most likely either a. move to a more aggressive pad and not care how much dust/noise you generate on the street or b. have to switch pads for your HPDEs with a compatible street only pad.

09-21-2011, 12:47 AM	#8 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	DO NOT USE XP10 on street tires, you will just hit ice mode and scare yourself. Or EBD can kick in. You might not get it as bad as I do due to your experience, but you will poop in your pants if ice mode or EBD kicks in at the wrong time. See my video here, car pulled to the right on its own 0411 370z WGI Unstable brakes.avi - YouTube XP8 is rotor friendly, but you will always get a little wear and you have to make sure you bed them in right. As for the noise, there is some. I would be more concerned about the dust as they can pit the wheel within a week. Here is how noisy XP10s are Carbotech XP10 brakes - YouTube If I get in a working mood, I will do some testing with the XP8/XP10/stock pads I have to see how they change the braking distance. Junk those HPS before they destroy your rotors, worst pads ever. The EBCs are crap too. Grassroot Motorsports recently tested bunch of pads, but I believe they are in the $200-$400 range. Last edited by cossie1600; 09-21-2011 at 12:49 AM.

09-21-2011, 01:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	The HPS worked fine for me for street driving on the stock brake setup. The rotors look fine too, but I'm not hard on brakes on the street, I tend to downshift and come to stops slowly. I even used them for a several light trial sessions at the track, but again I was really easy on the brakes. That whistling in that XP10 video is annoying. I assume that's only under light braking when cold? This seems to be one of those questions where you ask 10 people and get 10 different answers. Everyone says someone else's favorite sucks for some reason __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-21-2011, 02:24 AM	#10 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	My Prius feels fast to me too until I get into my Z. Light braking you get more. Cold or hot you will get it

09-21-2011, 09:00 AM	#11 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Well the one thing that's clear from this thread (and really, was already clear from other threads) is that the Carbotech pads are everyone's track favorite for sure on the Z, and that I should probably start out at 8/8 given my current situation, and re-evaluate later as I upgrade tires/skill . It's really just how "streetable" those are that opens up all the other questions, I guess because that's kind of subjective. If I don't hate the noise I'll just leave them on full time, and if not I'll spring for CT's own "Bobcat" street pads to use between track weekends since they'll be rotor-compatible. Unless someone comes up with some other creative and divergent opinion here. Thanks for the input guys __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-21-2011, 09:29 AM	#12 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	There are better pads for sure (cobalt friction comes to mind), but in terms of rotor life and price. I don't know what comes close. Why don't you just use the OEM pads or something? I have never used the Bobcat, but no one seems to like it. I have used HPS, HP+, Hawks Blues, Carbotech 8/10/12 and Cobalt Friction

09-21-2011, 09:35 AM	#13 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	You mean use OEM on the street w/ Carbotech 8/8 on a track weekend? What I've been reading here and there and everywhere is that Carbotech pads leave a different kind of surface deposit than other pads, and it's not recommended to switch between Carbotech-type pads and non-Carbotech pads on the same set of rotors, as you'd have trouble re-bedding properly unless you sanded/ground off the old pad material each time. I suppose in reality it's more about whether it's the same type of compound, not the brand name. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-21-2011, 10:27 AM	#14 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Well anyways, I'm still holding out hope that the XP8's will be quiet enough on the street regardless. If not then I'll look at my street options for rotor-compat. It seems like the reviews on XP8 noise vary a lot, and I'm starting to think this is mostly to do with user/install variations. Seems like probably the key is to properly lube them with disc brake lube of sufficiently high temp rating, and to bed them in fully and properly, both of which I intend to get done right. As far as lube goes, going to give this a try. The temp range on it is out of this world, way beyond temps that would destroy the rest of my brake hardware: http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut..._Lubricant.htm __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-21-2011, 11:22 AM	#15 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	i have been doing the xp8/10 swap to oem pads for 6 years on a 350, c6, rx8 and 370. car never had issues related to pad. i can get 15 to 20k out of the stock rotors on each one before the lip develops. ithe noise is annoying, but i am more worried about the dust as they have pitted the wheels on every car i have had. i never had a problem with cold stops either with them, i just dont want to destroy the wheels. do you have base calipers? i am not sure why you need lubes given the 4 piston design really dont use them. just learn to swap the pads and call it a day, takes 15 min per corner

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Hawk brake pads and Project Mu brake pads! All @ IIR!********************************	ImportImage	Suspension/Brakes	192	07-16-2014 03:54 PM
clicking sound when pressing brake pedal = brake booster problem?	doubleG370Z	Brakes & Suspension	1	08-30-2010 07:49 PM
Would you buy this car? Need advice	u155282	Other Vehicles	31	09-20-2009 12:42 AM
Need some advice	bigaudiofanat	The Lounge (Off Topic)	15	09-11-2009 11:48 AM
advice needed on brake issue	boosted180	Track / Autocross / Drifting / Dragstrip	5	08-18-2009 08:01 PM